• If Italy declares war on Russia and capture a territory, can the German army move into that territory on their next turn without declaring war on Russia


  • I assume the only point of that move is to give Germany 5 ipcs for the last time?

    Technically, I think you can do that.


  • I think Germany automatically joins Italy into war (since they are Allies), but i don’t see anything in the rulebook adressing this issue.

  • Official Q&A

    Calvin’s right.


  • To be fair, Russia would probably then declare war on Russia to deny them the bonus and get their own if 125 is free, but if they choose not to, then go for it.


  • You mean on germany…  can they do that when it is not their turn? (germany plays before Russia)


  • Russia can declare war on Germany if Italy delares war on Russia.


  • @Daedelus:

    Russia can declare war on Germany if Italy delares war on Russia.

    But by then, Germany will have already collected its 5


  • @calvinhobbesliker:

    @Daedelus:

    Russia can declare war on Germany if Italy delares war on Russia.

    But by then, Germany will have already collected its 5

    True, but the whole point of this thread is to ask if Germany can move into Russia WITHOUT declaring war on Russia if Italy has already moved in. They won’t get that bonus because then Russia will declare war on Germany anyway.


  • @kdfsjljklgjfg:

    @calvinhobbesliker:

    @Daedelus:

    Russia can declare war on Germany if Italy delares war on Russia.

    But by then, Germany will have already collected its 5

    True, but the whole point of this thread is to ask if Germany can move into Russia WITHOUT declaring war on Russia if Italy has already moved in. They won’t get that bonus because then Russia will declare war on Germany anyway.

    What you’re saying is true. However, the point of the question is whether Germany can still collect the 5 ipc by making this move.


  • @calvinhobbesliker:

    @Daedelus:

    Russia can declare war on Germany if Italy delares war on Russia.

    But by then, Germany will have already collected its 5

    I was just speaking to the point that special forces brought up, in that Russia is free to declare war on Germany if Italy declares war on Russia, I agree that Germany will recieve it’s bonus 5 IPCs for not being at war with Russia.


  • @kungfujew:

    If Italy declares war on Russia and capture a territory, can the German army move into that territory on their next turn without declaring war on Russia

    Absolutely.  They aren’t moving into a Russian controlled territory but rather an Italian controlled territory, therefore they are not declaring war on anyone.


  • Anyway an Italian land unit need 4 turns to get to Russia in the first place, and by then they all are in war anyway.


  • @Razor:

    Anyway an Italian land unit need 4 turns to get to Russia in the first place, and by then they all are in war anyway.

    Transport into SZ100 and attack any one of 4 (?) russian Territories starting in round 1 (if you have a fleet left and access to SZ100 of course).

    If you can’t transport, then I count 3 turns, not 4.


  • Tank in NIta can go to Slovakia I1 and invade Russia I2.


  • @calvinhobbesliker:

    Tank in NIta can go to Slovakia I1 and invade Russia I2.

    Yes indeed it can, but do you think that tank can also capture a Russian territory ?, since that is part of the topic question, man.


  • @Razor:

    @calvinhobbesliker:

    Tank in NIta can go to Slovakia I1 and invade Russia I2.

    Yes indeed it can, but do you think that tank can also capture a Russian territory ?, since that is part of the topic question, man.

    Well, actually, it’s not.  The topic was Can German enter a Russian territory that has been Captured by Italy without declaring war on Russia.  Nothing to do with the probability or likelyhood of Italy capturing a Russian territory or how it can be achieved before Germany/Russia are already at war.


  • In a lot of the games I have seen, Russia just leaves 1 Inf. on each boarder territory with Germany.  1 Italian Tank can certainly win against 1 INF.


  • @Daedelus:

    In a lot of the games I have seen, Russia just leaves 1 Inf. on each boarder territory with Germany.  1 Italian Tank can certainly win against 1 INF.

    Why waste 3 inf? Let small numbers of German tanks invade 2 tt into Russia and be taken out.


  • @calvinhobbesliker:

    @Daedelus:

    In a lot of the games I have seen, Russia just leaves 1 Inf. on each boarder territory with Germany.  1 Italian Tank can certainly win against 1 INF.

    Why waste 3 inf? Let small numbers of German tanks invade 2 tt into Russia and be taken out.

    There are a couple of reasons why this happens.

    1. Russia cannot defend thier front line against Germany.  If they concentrate, Germany avoids them, if they spread out in medium groups they get “piece-mealed.”

    2. The Russian player wants to stop blitzing.  This means that for at least a round they can prevent German tanks from getting easy, undefended second-row Russian territories.

    3. Bait; the Russian player can try and bait the Germans into moving to easier, less defended spots.

    4. Force the Italians to be the can-opener.  Better to fight the Italians with Russia than have the Italian tanks in Africa.

    5. The Germans may decided NOT to go two Territories and you have lost your front row for nothing.

    6. You only want germany to move one territory per turn. The Infantry are speed bumps.

    7. The original point that I was addressing was “can 1 Italian Tank take a Russian Territory so that the Germans can move in to a “Russian” Territory (now italian) with out declaring War.”  The Answer is Yes.  I’ve seen it done on more than one occasion.


  • @Daedelus:

    In a lot of the games I have seen, Russia just leaves 1 Inf. on each boarder territory with Germany.  1 Italian Tank can certainly win against 1 INF.

    Yes but the Russian inf still can kill a tank and so the Italians won’t be able to occupy the territory until later and so Germany would have to capture it and this doesn’t work. Also why risk 3 ipc for a 1 ipc-2 ipc gain? Because this means Su DOWS and uses the reserves behind the front line or in Stalin and Lenin to recapture and Germany + 5 ipc but then SU will get NO because 125 will not be occupied by Axis if Germany plays Sealion


  • @The:

    @Daedelus:

    In a lot of the games I have seen, Russia just leaves 1 Inf. on each boarder territory with Germany.  1 Italian Tank can certainly win against 1 INF.

    Yes but the Russian inf still can kill a tank and so the Italians won’t be able to occupy the territory until later and so Germany would have to capture it and this doesn’t work. Also why risk 3 ipc for a 1 ipc-2 ipc gain? Because this means Su DOWS and uses the reserves behind the front line or in Stalin and Lenin to recapture and Germany + 5 ipc but then SU will get NO because 125 will not be occupied by Axis if Germany plays Sealion

    The original question wasn’t “why,” it was “can you….”  I think the why has been answered earlier in the thread.  Basically it comes down to can you exploit a mistake or a short comming of Russia by doing this.  So sometimes it’s good move, and other times it won’t be.


  • @Krieghund:

    Calvin’s right.

    Kreig must have to have his rulebooks laminated, all the fact finding he has to do for us, lol.

  • '10

    @Krieghund:

    Calvin’s right.

    If Germany were helping to occupy a territory that was originaly Soviet, would that not be an act of war?

  • Official Q&A

    No, it wouldn’t.

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