Latest ALPHA+ setup



  • Well if Larry calls it quits on this project then this is the final draft of what we have so far. Personally, I’m OK with it. This includes Larry’s latest setup changes to the Med. If the SBR stuff remains unchanged, then that’s fine with me.

    Alpha+

    National Setup by Country in Turn Order

    Germany
    Holland/Belgium – 4 Infantry, 2 Artillery, 3 tanks, 1 Fighter
    Western Germany – 3 Infantry, 1 Artillery, 4 Mech Infantry, 2 Fighters, 3 Tac bombers 1 AA gun, 1 Major IC, 1 Naval base, 1 Airbase
    Greater Southern Germany - 6 Infantry, 1 Artillery, 2 tanks
    Germany – 6 Infantry, 4 artillery, 1 Bomber, 1 Major IC, 1 AA gun
    Slovakia/Hungary – 2 Infantry, 1 Tank, 1 Tac Bomber
    Romania – 3 Infantry, 1 Tank
    Poland – 3 Infantry, 1 Tank, 1 Fighter
    Norway – 2 Infantry, 1 Fighter
    Denmark – 2 Infantry
    Sea Zone 103 - 1 Sub
    Sea Zone 108 - 1 Sub
    Sea Zone 113 - 1 Cruiser, 1 Battleship, 1 Transport
    Sea Zone 117 - 1 Sub
    Sea Zone 118 - 1 Sub
    Sea Zone 124 - 1 Sub

    Soviet Union
    Karelia - 2 Infantry
    Archangel - 1 Infantry
    Russia - 2 Infantry, 1 Artillery, 1 Mech Infantry, 1 tank, 1 Fighter, 1 Tac Bomber, 1 AA Gun, 1 Airbase, 1 Major IC
    Volgograd - 1 tank, 1 Mech Infantry, 1 Minor IC
    Caucasus – 1 Infantry
    Bessarabia – 2 Infantry
    Western Ukraine – 1 Infantry, 1 Artillery
    Eastern Poland – 3 Infantry
    Baltic States – 3 Infantry
    Belarus – 1 Infantry
    Novgorod - 6 Infantry, 1 Artillery, 1 Fighter, 1 AA Gun, 1 Airbase, 1 Naval Base, 1 Minor IC
    Vyborg – 2 Infantry
    Amur – 6 Infantry
    Sakha – 6 Infantry, 1 AA gun
    Buryatia – 6 Infantry
    Sea Zone 115 – 1 Battleship, 1 Transport
    Sea Zone 127 – 1 Sub

    Japan
    Japan - 6 Infantry, 2 Artillery, 1 Tank, 2 Fighters, 2 Tac Bombers, 2 Bomber, 1 AA Gun, 1 Airbase, 1 Naval Base, 1 Major IC
    Manchuria - 6 Infantry, 1 Mech Infantry, 1 Artillery, 1 AA Gun, 2 Fighters, 2 Tac Bombers
    Palau Island - 1 Infantry
    Kiangsi - 3 Infantry, 1 Artillery
    Formosa - 1 Fighter
    Shantung - 2 Infantry
    Kwangsi - 3 Infantry, 1 Artillery
    Iwo Jima - 1 Infantry
    Jehol - 2 Infantry, 1 Artillery
    Caroline Islands - 1 Infantry, 1 AA gun, 1 Airbase, 1 Naval Base,
    Siam - 2 Infantry
    Okinawa - 1 Infantry, 1 Fighter
    Kiangsu - 2 Infantry, 1 Fighter, 1 Tac Bomber.
    Korea - 4 Infantry, 1 Fighter
    Sea Zone 6 - 1 Sub, 2 Destroyers, 2 Carriers each with 2 Tac & 2 Ftrs., 1 Cruiser, 1 Battleship, 1 Transport
    Sea Zone 19 - 1 Sub, 1 Battleship, 1 Destroyer, 1 Transport
    Sea Zone 33 - 1 Destroyer, 1 Carrier w/ 1 Tac & 1 Ftrs.
    Sea Zone 20 - 1 Cruiser, 1 Transport

    United Kingdom (London)Atlantic side of map
    Ontario - 1 Infantry
    Quebec - 1 Infantry, 1 Tank, 1 Minor IC
    New Brunswick Nova Scotia - 1 Naval Base
    Iceland - 1 Airbase
    United Kingdom - 1 French and 1 British infantry, 2 Brit & 1 ANZAC fighters, 1 AA gun, 1 Airbase, 1 Naval Base, 1 Major IC,
    France - 1 Infantry, 1 Artillery, 1 Tank
    Gibraltar – 1 Infantry, 1 fighter, 1 Airbase, 1 Naval Base
    Malta – 1 Infantry, 1 AA gun, 1 Airbase
    Alexandria - 2 Infantry, 1 Artillery, 1 Tank
    Egypt - 1 British & 2 ANZAC infantry, 1 Artillery, 1 Naval Base
    Anglo-Egyptian Sudan - 1 Infantry
    Union of South Africa - 2 Infantry, 1 Naval Base, 1 Minor IC
    West India – 1 Infantry
    Scotland – 1 Infantry, 1 Fighter
    Sea Zone 71 - 1 Destroyer
    Sea Zone 91 – 1 Cruiser
    Sea Zone 98 – 1 Destroyer, 1 Cruiser, 1 Carrier w/1 Tac Bomber & 1 Fighter, 1 Transport
    Sea Zone 106 – 1 Destroyer, 1 Transport
    Sea Zone 109 – 1 Destroyer, 1 Transport
    Sea Zone 110 – 1 Destroyer, 1 Battleship
    Sea Zone 111 – 1 Destroyer, 1 Battleship
    Sea Zone 112 – 1 Cruiser

    United Kingdom (India) Pacific side of the map
    Kwangtung - 2 Infantry, 1 Naval Base
    Burma - 2 Infantry, 1 Fighter
    Malaya - 3 Infantry, 1 Naval Base
    India - 6 Infantry, 1 Artillery, 1 AA Gun, 1 Fighter, 1 Tac Bomber, 1 Airbase, 1 Naval Base, 1 Major IC
    Sea Zone 37 - 1 Battleship
    Sea Zone 39 - 1 Destroyer, 1 Cruiser, 1 Transport

    ANZAC
    United Kingdom – 1 Fighter
    Malaya - 1 Infantry
    New South Wales - 2 Infantry, 1 Minor IC, 1 Naval Base.
    New Zealand - 1 Infantry, 2 Fighter, 1 Airbase, 1 Naval Base.
    Queensland - 2 Infantry, 1 Artillery, 1 Fighter, 1 Airbase, 1 Naval Base.
    Egypt – 2 Infantry
    Sea Zone 62 -1 Destroyer, 1 Transport
    Sea Zone 63 – 1 Cruiser

    Italy
    Northern Italy - 2 Infantry, 2 Artillery, 1 tank, 1 Fighter, 1 AA Gun, 1 Major IC
    Southern Italy - 5 Infantry, 1 Fighter, 1 AA Gun, 1 Naval Base, 1 Airbase, 1 Minor IC
    Albania - 2 Infantry, 1 tank
    Italian Somaliland – 1 Infantry
    Ethiopia – 2 Infantry
    Libya – 2 Infantry
    Tobruk - 2 Infantry, 1 Artillery, 1 Mech Infantry, 1 tank
    Sea Zone 95 - 1 Cruiser, 1 Battleship, 1 Transport
    Sea Zone 97 – 2 Destroyer, 1 Cruiser, 1 Sub, 2 Transport

    United States
    Western US - 3 Infantry, 1 Mech Infantry, 1 Artillery, 1 Tank, 1 Bomber, 1 AA Gun, 1 Airbase, 1 Naval Base, 1 Minor IC
    Hawaiian Islands - 2 Infantry, 2 fighters, 1 Airbase, 1 Naval Base.
    Philippines - 2 Infantry, 1 fighter, 1 Airbase, 1 Naval Base.
    Midway - 1 Airbase
    Wake Island - 1 Airbase
    Guam - 1 Airbase
    Eastern United States – 1 Infantry, 1 Fighter, 1 Artillery, 1 Tank, 1 AA Gun, 1 Airbase, 1 Naval Base, 1 Minor IC
    Central United States - 1 Infantry, 1 Mech Infantry, 1 Bomber, 1 Minor IC
    Sea Zone 26 - 1 Sub, 1 Destroyer
    Sea Zone 10 - Battleship, Cruiser, Transport, Carrier w/Tac & Ftr
    Sea Zone 35 - 1 Destroyer and 1 Transport
    Sea Zone 101 – 1 Destroyer and 1 Transport

    China
    Szechwan 5 Infantry and one fighter
    Hunan 2 Infantry
    Yunnan 4 Infantry
    Kweichow 2 Infantry
    Shensi 1 Infantry
    Suiyuyan 2 Infantry

    France
    France - 6 Infantry, 1 Artillery, 1 tank, 1 Fighter, 1 Airbase, 1 Major IC
    Southern France - 1 Infantry, 1 Artillery, 1 Naval Base
    Normandy/Bordeaux – 1 Infantry, 1 tank, 1 Naval Base, 1 Minor IC
    Syria - 1 Infantry
    Tunisia – 1 Infantry
    Morocco – 1 Infantry
    Algeria – 1 Infantry
    French West Africa – 1 Infantry
    United Kingdom – 1 Infantry
    Sea Zone 72 - 1 Destroyer
    Sea Zone 93 - 1 Destroyer, 1 Cruiser
    Sea Zone 112 - 1 Cruiser

    National Objectives (Global Only)

    Germany

    When Germany is not at War with the Soviet Union
    1. Collect 5 IPCs per turn for not being at war with the Soviet Union. Wheat & Oil trade.

    When Germany is at War with the Soviet Union
    2. Collect 5 IPCs per turn for EACH of the following territories, Novgorod (Leningrad), Volgograd (Stalingrad), and/or Russia (Moscow) controlled by the Axis.

    When German is at War with the European Allies
    3. Collect 5 IPCs per turn if there is at least one German land unit in an Axis controlled Egypt.
    4. Collect 5 IPC per turn if Germany controls both Denmark and Norway while Sweden is either neutral or controlled by the Axis.
    5. Collect 5 IPCs per turn that Germany controls the United Kingdom.

    Soviet Union

    When the Soviet Union is at War in Europe
    1. Collect 3 IPCs per turn for each original German territory the Soviet Union controls, if there are no units belonging to any Axis powers present in any territories originally controlled by the Soviet Union.
    2. Collect 5 IPCs if the convoy in sea zone 125 is free of Axis Warships. Archangel is controlled by the Soviet Union, and there are no units belonging to any other Allied powers present in any territories originally controlled by the Soviet Union.
    3. Collect 10 IPCs, once, for Soviet occupation of Berlin (Germany).

    When the Soviet Union becomes at War with Japan
    4. Collect 10 IPCs, once, and at the beginning of the turn following a declaration of war by Japan on the Soviet Union. (Modified 11/23)

    Japan

    When Japan is NOT at War
    1.Collect 10 IPCs each turn that Japan is not at war with the United States and has not invaded French Indo-China or made an unprovoked declaration of war against United Kingdom/ANZAC.(re-written but not changed 11/23)

    When Japan becomes at War with the Soviet Union.
    2. Collect 10 IPCs, once, and at the beginning of the turn following a declaration of war by the Soviet Union on Japan. (Modified 11/23)

    When Japan is at War
    3. Collect 5 IPCs per turn if Axis controls (change 11/23) 5 of the 7 following islands. Midway, Wake, Marinaras, Iwo Jima, Caroline, Solomon Islands and Guam.
    4. Collect 5 IPCs per turn for controlling each of the following Major power centers – Honolulu, Sydney, Calcutta, and/or the Western United States.
    5. Collect 5 IPCs per turn for controlling all of the following territories: Sumatra, Java, Borneo and Celebes.

    United Kingdom

    (The following NOs are only awarded to London)

    When the United Kingdom is at War with German/Italy
    1. Collect 5 IPCs per turn if there are no German submarines on the Europe map with the following exceptions: The Baltic Sea (113 -114 -115). The Black Sea (100) and of course the Caspian Sea. (modified 11/23)
    2. Collect 5 IPCs per turn if the United Kingdom controls all of its original territories in North America, Africa, and Europe.

    (The following NO is awarded only to Calcutta)

    When the United Kingdom is at War with Japan
    3. Collect 5 IPCs per turn if the United Kingdom controls all of its original territories on the Pacific map. This also includes West India (actually located on the Europe map). Note: The two Canadian territories (Yukon territory & British Columbia) located on the Pacific map are owned and controlled by London not Calcutta.

    ANZAC

    When ANZAC is at War with Japan
    1. Collect 5 IPCs per turn if the Allies (Not including the Dutch) control Dutch New Guinea, New Guinea, New Britain and the Solomon Islands.
    2. Collect 5 IPCs per turn if the Allied powers control Malaya and ANZAC controls all of its original territories.

    Italy

    When Italy is at War
    1. Collect 5 IPCs per turn if Axis powers control 3 of these 4 territories: Egypt, S.France, Greece, Gibraltar.
    2. Collect 5 IPCs per turn if there are no Allied surface warships in the Mediterranean Sea (sea zones 92 through 99).
    3. Collect 5 IPCs if Axis powers control all of the following North African territories:
    Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Tobruk, Alexandria

    United States

    When at War
    1. Collect 15 IPCs per turn for complete control of the continental US and Mexico (WUS, CUS, EUS and Mexico). Note: All 3 Minor ICs in the continental US automatically are converted immediately to Major ICs when the US is at war.
    2. Collect 5 IPC per turn if the Allies (change made 11/23)control 5 of the 7 following islands. Midway, Wake, Marinaras, Iwo Jima, Caroline, Solomon Islands and Guam.
    3. Collect 5 IPCs per turn for controlling the Philippines
    5. Collect 5 IPCs per turn for controlling Hawaii, Alaska, the Aleutian Islands, Line Islands, and Johnston Island
    6. Collect 5 IPCs for turn for controlling Southern Mexico, Central America (Panama)and the West indies

    China

    Collects 6 IPCs per turn if the Burma Road is totally open. The Allies must control India, Burma, Yunnan and Szechwan for this to occur. China is also permitted to purchase artillery (represented by US pieces) if the Burma Road is open.

    France

    When France is at War
    Troop Bonus: When the territory of France is liberated, for the first time only, the player controlling this territory immediately places 4 French Infantry units on it. (Modified 11/23)

    Rules Changes that Now are Observed.

    1. AA Guns are no longer captured; they are removed from play after the territory is captured.

    2. Submarines no longer fire a special “sneak attack” shot at unescorted transports.

    3. Major industrial complexes can no longer be built on foreign territories. Likewise they may no longer be upgraded when captured. The original owner of the territory may upgrade it if the territory is recaptured.

    4. If the Soviet Union is at war with Axis powers on only one map, it is still under the restrictions of being a neutral power. In other words, war with Japan lifts those restrictions from the USSR on the Pacific map only, and war with Germany and/or Italy lifts those restrictions on the Europe map only.

    5. Scramble rules have been changed. They now read:
    Scrambling is a special action that can take place at the beginning of this phase (Phase 3: Conduct Combat (Powers at War Only), and it must be completed before any combat occurs. A quick reaction team of no more than 3 defending fighters and/or tactical bombers (strategic bombers can’t scramble) located on islands and coastal territories that have operative air bases can be scrambled to defend against attacks in the adjacent sea zones. Air units can only be scrambled to help friendly naval units in adjoining sea zones that have come under attack, or they can also be scrambled to resist an amphibious assault. They may defend against the enemy ships conducting the amphibious assault even if friendly ships are not present. In either case, resolve combat as usual during the Conduct Combat phase.

    Scrambled fighters and tactical bombers are defending, so refer to their defense values and abilities when resolving combat. They can’t participate in any other battles during that turn, including a battle on the island or territory from which they were scrambled.

    In situations where a sea zone is served by more than one airbase, Korea and Japan into sea zone 6 for example, each of the territories (or both in this case) can scramble up to 3 fighters and/or tactical bombers. On the other hand, if Korea is specifically being attacked by an amphibious force, and there is no sea battle occurring, only the aircraft in Korea can participate in the scramble.

    To sum it up: If there is a sea battle, involving an amphibious assault or not, all neighboring aircraft that meet the scramble requirements can participate in the sea battle. If there is only an amphibious assault and there is no sea battle, only the territory be attacked from the sea can scramble up to 3 aircraft.

    All scrambled air units must return to their original island or territory from which they were scrambled. If the enemy captures those locations, the units can move one space to land in a friendly territory or on a friendly aircraft carrier. If no such landing space is available, the units are lost. Surviving scrambled air units land during that turn’s Noncombat Move phase, before the attacker makes any movements.

    6. Victory Conditions
    The game now ends immediately after any one of the following occurs
    A. Victory for the Allies if: All Axis capitals are under allied control.
    B. victory for the axis if they control 6 of the 8 victory cities on the Pacific board. (modified 11/23)
    C. victory for the axis if they control 8 of the 11 victory cities on the Europe board.
    (modified 11/23)

    7. IPC income from West India (2) now goes to Calcutta.

    8. IPC income from British Columbia now goes to London.
    Note: With these income changes United Kingdom Pacific now makes 17 IPCs and United Kingdom now makes 28 IPCs



  • The only problem is, as I said, that Japan can easily set up to take 6 VCs in the Pacific before the US is at war, since the US’s only IC in the Pacific is a minor. I really don’t see the point of splitting the US NO AND reducing its production capacity



  • I’m ok with these setting also, if you’re not satisfied tweak the rules for your own liking. I feel bad for Larry having to put up with all of us, no matter what he changes there’s always going to be someone unhappy.



  • This setup looks great on paper. Looking forward to trying it out. It seems like a lot of issues have been addressed at least.

    I have one question regarding the Japanese not-at-war National Objective. The requirements were changed (simplified?) from not attacking US/UK/France to not attacking US/UK/French Indo China.

    Does this mean that Japan can attack New Hebrides (French island, SZ 53) and still claim the NO? I’ve had a strategy floating around in my head for awhile regarding taking this island J2. I’m guessing you cannot, just need some confirmation so I don’t have to think about it anymore.  😄

    Edit: just remembered that, during the diplomatic negotiations in 1941 before Pearl, the US specifically warned the Japan not to move south into Indo-China. So the change from France to French-Indo makes sense from an historical point of view.



  • Questioner I have a question concerning rule change #6 is it now 6 of 8 and 8 of 11, or is 6 of 8 or 8 of 11


  • TripleA

    @Detuite:

    Questioner I have a question concerning rule change #6 is it now 6 of 8 and 8 of 11, or is 6 of 8 or 8 of 11

    6. Victory Conditions
    The game now ends immediately after any one of the following occurs
    A. Victory for the Allies if: All Axis capitals are under allied control.
    B. victory for the axis if they control 6 of the 8 victory cities on the Pacific board.
    C. victory for the axis if they control 8 of the 11 victory cities on the Europe board.

    victory is immediate if any of the conditions is met.

    either or will win.



  • @Stikato:

    This setup looks great on paper. Looking forward to trying it out. It seems like a lot of issues have been addressed at least.

    I have one question regarding the Japanese not-at-war National Objective. The requirements were changed (simplified?) from not attacking US/UK/France to not attacking US/UK/French Indo China.

    Does this mean that Japan can attack New Hebrides (French island, SZ 53) and still claim the NO? I’ve had a strategy floating around in my head for awhile regarding taking this island J2. I’m guessing you cannot, just need some confirmation so I don’t have to think about it anymore.  😄

    Edit: just remembered that, during the diplomatic negotiations in 1941 before Pearl, the US specifically warned the Japan not to move south into Indo-China. So the change from France to French-Indo makes sense from an historical point of view.

    I would think it may include all French tt or attacks on French units when it gets to the official FAQ (Jap air could possibly attack the French DD off Madag if it moves? etc…). Maybe it will just have to do w/French tt/units on the Pac map (I don’t think Jap can even get to the French on the Euro side before this NO would be revoked).

    Larry has said that this is more of a blue print of what he wants to do, but Krieghund will go through the wording etc… before the final draft is put into the FAQ.

    So good tip for Krieghund to look at this situation. How about it Krieg?

    Edit: Oh, BTW thanks Q for posting the latest direction, my copy was getting hard to read with all the pencil changes I was making.



  • @allweneedislove:

    @Detuite:

    Questioner I have a question concerning rule change #6 is it now 6 of 8 and 8 of 11, or is 6 of 8 or 8 of 11

    6. Victory Conditions
    The game now ends immediately after any one of the following occurs
    A. Victory for the Allies if: All Axis capitals are under allied control.
    B. victory for the axis if they control 6 of the 8 victory cities on the Pacific board.
    C. victory for the axis if they control 8 of the 11 victory cities on the Europe board.

    victory is immediate if any of the conditions is met.

    either or will win.

    Would this work better if in addition to the axis victory conditions that they would also have to hold a certain # of VC’s on the opposite board too. It wouldn’t have to be a high #, but it seems weird that the axis could loose every VC on the Euro board, but still win the game. Same for the the opposite scenario.



  • There’s a reason the Med changes weren’t moved to page 1. As Larry said, those changes are completely untested. Attacks on SZ 97 and Tobruk favor UK to the point where Italy will be crippled worse than in the OOB game. I’ve haven’t seen any playtesting being done on the forums or battle reports that would indicate a need for this change.



  • @Kobu:

    There’s a reason the Med changes weren’t moved to page 1. As Larry said, those changes are completely untested. Attacks on SZ 97 and Tobruk favor UK to the point where Italy will be crippled worse than in the OOB game. I’ve haven’t seen any playtesting being done on the forums or battle reports that would indicate a need for this change.

    I’ve playtested a game where UK got lucky in Z97 and Tobruk and was able to cripple Italy. However, if Germany had moved just 1 plane to South Italy, an attack on Z97 would be unviable.

    None of that matters because Japan was able to take Hawaii and Sydney, with the US unable to respond due to the fact that it only had minors.



  • @Kobu:

    There’s a reason the Med changes weren’t moved to page 1. As Larry said, those changes are completely untested. Attacks on SZ 97 and Tobruk favor UK to the point where Italy will be crippled worse than in the OOB game. I’ve haven’t seen any playtesting being done on the forums or battle reports that would indicate a need for this change.

    Well if we don’t include the Med changes how would we test them? Q put in the text that this set up includes the newest Med set-up (we know its not tested, that is what we are trying to do). It’s for those of us who want to test it out. Maybe Q should point that out a little better though.

    You have the option of not using it, and go with whats on Larry’s 1st page. I know that Larry has said he plans on moving the AB from N Italy to S Italy, and that he’ll most likely remove the AB from Sicily too. It is still not in his update yet though.

    I think Q may have taken some liberties, but this is what I will be using for now. It was very helpful.



  • @calvinhobbesliker:

    I’ve playtested a game where UK got lucky in Z97 and Tobruk and was able to cripple Italy. However, if Germany had moved just 1 plane to South Italy, an attack on Z97 would be unviable.

    None of that matters because Japan was able to take Hawaii and Sydney, with the US unable to respond due to the fact that it only had minors.

    Yep that is my thinking too. I like the minors though. I think the Jap (axis) victory conditions shouldn’t be immediately at 6 VC, at least give the US its turn to counter it. Same for the Euro side. Other wise we’ll have a lot of 3-4 turn games.

    I’m glad we play until someone cry’s uncle.



  • it seems to me that Italy cannot compete with the new changes. if it attacks with its entire navy against the British med fleet, then it might win but with very heavy losses. also, Tobruk is way to weak! it can barley concur Alexandria. if it does it gets kicked out of Africa by the British 8th army. the extra infantry in Southern Italy are nice, but cant go anywhere. if Italy either attacks the British or vice verse, then the transports are basically dead because of the French Navy. What im trying to say is that Italy is way too weak and needs more in the central med and N. Africa. sorry if im ranting on.



  • @WILD:

    @calvinhobbesliker:

    I’ve playtested a game where UK got lucky in Z97 and Tobruk and was able to cripple Italy. However, if Germany had moved just 1 plane to South Italy, an attack on Z97 would be unviable.

    None of that matters because Japan was able to take Hawaii and Sydney, with the US unable to respond due to the fact that it only had minors.

    Yep that is my thinking too. I like the minors though. I think the Jap (axis) victory conditions shouldn’t be immediately at 6 VC, at least give the US its turn to counter it. Same for the Euro side. Other wise we’ll have a lot of 3-4 turn games.

    I’m glad we play until someone cry’s uncle.

    Yeah, I could immediately retake Hawaii if Japan didn’t win immediately.

    However, there’s still a problem if Germany does Sealion. japan’s moves prevent the US from saving the UK. The UK must choose between attacking Italy or giving Italy Africa and protecting itself.



  • Have to agree with Calvin here.  My group never even tried to play the 6 VC Axis win in the Pacific because it looked waaaay too easy to achieve.  We’ve had some good games playing with a 7 VC goal for the Pacific side.  Of course all 3 games its actually been the EuroAxis that’ve won it.



  • @calvinhobbesliker:

    @WILD:

    @calvinhobbesliker:

    I’ve playtested a game where UK got lucky in Z97 and Tobruk and was able to cripple Italy. However, if Germany had moved just 1 plane to South Italy, an attack on Z97 would be unviable.

    None of that matters because Japan was able to take Hawaii and Sydney, with the US unable to respond due to the fact that it only had minors.

    Yep that is my thinking too. I like the minors though. I think the Jap (axis) victory conditions shouldn’t be immediately at 6 VC, at least give the US its turn to counter it. Same for the Euro side. Other wise we’ll have a lot of 3-4 turn games.

    I’m glad we play until someone cry’s uncle.

    Yeah, I could immediately retake Hawaii if Japan didn’t win immediately.

    However, there’s still a problem if Germany does Sealion. japan’s moves prevent the US from saving the UK. The UK must choose between attacking Italy or giving Italy Africa and protecting itself.

    I don’t see a problem with making tough choices. The US should have its own back yard cleaned up (stop Jap/axis victory), before it try’s to stop a German Sea lion, or make a run for the Med. Actually this would be a good axis strat to force the US from a big Euro push (as was intended).  The US could always fly some ftrs to def UK once at war to try to get Germany to back out. I don’t have a problem with the US having to take back the 6th VC if indeed it is changed to allow them to counter, (as it should be, where’s Krieghunds stand on this?). If it delays a UK liberation, or allied domination in the Med so be it

    Its not like the axis can set-up victory conditions on both boards in the early rounds, and the US has to take back a VC on both boards. If it happens (not sure it could), then the US would have been brought into the war early and its IC would be upgraded in round 1 or 2.

    Maybe the axis victory in the individual theaters should also include a few VC from the other board (Just a few TBD), and the allies should have until the end of the US turn to counter it. There is still a combined collection of VC’s from both boards for the axis to win right?  Have that # lowered if you have achieved the individual theater goals (but allow a US counter).

    Krieghund, do you have an option on this? Do you see how easy it is for Japan to get 6 VC’s, and end the game prematurely with the US unable to mobilizes (minor IC’s, which I like), or counter? Are we way off on this, and there is something we are not accounting for?



  • Bill, it is nearly impossible for the US to save Hawaii with just a minor IC. Add that to the fact that, even if UK defends as much as possible, Germany can still take it G4 since the US is busy in the Pacific, makes this setup unappealing. Once again, people complain that Italy doesn’t do well but overlook the fact that neither does the UK.



  • The UK is much harder to take with the new scramble rules. Germany just getting enough ships to ensure a landing makes things harder. Navy and air buys are much easier for the UK to do to counter instead of buying nothing but stacks of infantry. I’ve been looking at the odds in a game I’m playing against Infrastructure and each step as Germany prepares is dicey. I nearly had a “safe” attack planned out one round but a couple dice rolls that didn’t go my way ensured that he would have made the amphibious assault a very difficult proposition.

    What is going on in the Pacific that you are losing it so easily?



  • Look at my game vs allweneedislove.

    Keep in mind Germany no longer needs to build a Carrier to protect his fleet from UK air attack, meaning more can be spent on transports.



  • I agree that this victory condition (for Pac side of global) should be looked at. Upping the Pac side to 7 VC should also be thrown in the mix (as I’ve seen you post before).

    I would say that the UK does also have to make some tough choices, but that Sea Lion isn’t quite as easy to pull off now.

    I would still like to hear from Krieghund on this and see what his stand is on this topic, or possible solutions. Is there something you/we are missing. He is always open to us and is the voice of reason w/Larry most times.

    This is still all a testing thing at this point, it is not a done deal. Larry may have stopped the back-n-forth communications (can’t blame him its time consuming & nerve racking), but he is still checking post on his site and reading stuff. Look at the bottom of the pages and you’ll see a Larry in the “who’s browsing this forum” all times of the day & night. Hell I just checked he’s there now.



  • I reviewed your game Calvin. It does seem that with that Med change, it is pretty hard for the UK to fend off Sealion just as before. It doesn’t seem like a desirable change.

    You did mop up Italy pretty well as I expected. If the Pacific hadn’t collapsed, you may have come out even. But is the game fun with Italy crippled and the UK wiped out, as could happen nearly every game? I don’t believe so.

    This could perhaps be rectified by just giving the UK more infantry stationed to begin with. It’s not like they’d be doing much but defending, so I don’t think it would hurt Germany too much.

    The new Med set up is nice because it gives UK different options and allows for an actual Taranto raid. That is, if fewer eggs were put into the SZ 97 basket. Pump up the forces a bit in Tobruk too and maybe this will work.

    On the Pacific side, I think the mistake was abandoning Hawaii. Even with 3 production, I believe the US has enough to to set up a counter strike and basically end Japan if they are going for both Hawaii and Queensland simultaneously.



  • The reason I abandoned Hawaii was that Japan was threatening WUS. I knew that building 3 defending units wouldn’t help much, so I built a defending fleet.



  • So, you were thinking of a turn 3 attack on the US from Alaska? I suppose it’s actually doable, but I think there’s an easy fix.

    Japan cannot enter sea zones around North America or Hawaii without declaring war. That would either let the US block with ships, or jump up to war time production.



  • I’m figuring out the odds for that attack and it’s pretty close assuming the US moves and builds correctly on turn 2. I’m not sure it’s a big problem other than the Axis player being obnoxious and trying it every game for a dicey victory.

    The rule I suggested still seems to take care of it and would make sense. FDR would have no trouble declaring war seeing a Japanese armada parked outside Alaska.


  • TripleA

    @calvinhobbesliker:

    Yeah, I could immediately retake Hawaii if Japan didn’t win immediately.

    usa would not have been able to take it back if japan left pickets.

    @calvinhobbesliker:

    However, there’s still a problem if Germany does Sealion. japan’s moves prevent the US from saving the UK. The UK must choose between attacking Italy or giving Italy Africa and protecting itself.

    the choice of uk effectively crippling italy or holding its capital should be a no brainer. uk should hold its capital.


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