Ok, so if I corrected all the mistakes I made in my first PBF game with you, we should see the second game created HERE!
I’ve noticed with bidding that the extra units seems limited to infantry or tanks. The locations limited to Libya, Manchuria, EE and Ukraine. Is there any reason for this or is it just convention so players have a relatively even point of reference as it where.
If germany could get an extra sub and transport or the Japs with an extra sub and transport would be a wild variation.
I’ve often thought about the same thing, I like the idea of having a German navy beyond round 1 or 2, but it basically comes down to you get more bang for your buck with inf. A bid of an extra sub/tran has it’s benefits but chances are the allies are still going to sink all your ships by G2. Meaning you’ll only get 1 turn of use out of them, however, 2 or 3 extra inf can dance around africa for several turns, or 2 or 3 inf in Europe might tip the odds in your favor for an early shot Kar, and can often push German forces East making Cauc the trading territory instead of Ukr.
For Jap, unless you want to take a shot at Ala and Hi on J1, your better off getting 2 inf on the mainland and 2 IPC in the bank then a tran. A sub might help in Pearl Harbor, but by J2, if you do Pearl anyway, having an extra sub in the Pacific isn’t much help. More times than not the US will give you the Pacific anyway by retreating to the Atlantic.
There are certainly some things you could try with an extra ship or 2, or maybe an extra ftr or bomber for Ger, if you can get that high of a bid, but more often then not I like to put the most units on the board as I can, so infantry seems to work the best.
DM, I agree with most of what you say. I’m a huge fan of infantry with the odd tank to leverage air mobility threats. It makes sense if you build all infantry to have your bids in infantry as well.
If you bid say 18 for the axis, do you have to announce the german/japan split and types of units by convention?
As for additional german navy, I was only thinking a sub for 1 reason. To avoid losing a plane on the opening German move when taking out the allied navy. I’d rather build a sub to avoid a plane loss then build a plane to replace the loss if ya know what I mean +4 IPC.
The extra plane might delay the onslaught of the allied navy for 1 round….might. Does this extra round parlayed through the turns pay off more than having 4 infantry is the 64 dollar question. It’s a losing game for Germany to plan on using a fleet past the third round. Even if you had it you couldn’t deliver troops anywhere without unduly weaking mainland germany. Trading Africa for Germany ain’t a good trade :-)
I suppose things tend to converge to a balance over time. Perhaps it’s just the few variations of bidding are the best. I’d still love to play Japan if she has 2 extra INF on each asian territory…
Yeah, bidding can add lots of different variations to spice up the game. If you’ve ever seen some of SUD’s posts he’s given some in depth info on bidding styles somewhere in another post on bidding. But in general it all depends on how you want to play, i.e. RR or No RR. With RR, bids tend to be between 6-9, and with no RR they are 18+. So in a no RR game you could probably get at least 2 extra subs, but then again you have to be careful where you place them because Russia may take a shot at them.
Usually you don’t announce what you are buying or where you are placing the units until the bidding has concluded. However, there are certain styles of bidding where you announce what you’re bidding for before purchasing it. For example you bid 15, but announce that it is for a bomber for Germany. Your opponent may be willing to let you have it since he knows it is for a bom, but wouldn’t let you have it if he thought you’d buy 5 inf.
So, there is no set way, it just has to be something you and you opponent agree on.
The last part of you post describes a Stong Asia bid, 6-7 inf in Asia. There is also Stong Europe or Strong Africa. Played with no RR but a bid of around 20 or so and all units are placed in one region.
But most high bids get dispersed, 2 inf to Lib, 2-3 inf in Europe, maybe a couple in Asia. No right or wrong way, just depends on how you like to play.
I found it. It is a post called “Bidding Systems” currently on page 3 of this section. But here is the link:
Bidding has definitely evolved!
I remember when it started with the argument over whether you could regularly win as Axis with a bid of 8 inf[24 ipcs] on E Eur(rather than 9 inf[27 ipcs], a standard bid.)
Then along came bids in Man, FICB, the C Med sz, and Lib(along with a few in the Bal sz…)
I’ve read a few things here and there off and on over the years but nothing really new in the last few years. Some intersting stuff is at:
DM I’ve never come across bidding with RR however, the numbers you mention with RR are right on for what I’ve read and the RR numbers make sense.
Our group is somewhat stoic, we put flags in a baseball cap and pick. It used to suck having Wally as an Axis partner but he has bought into germany buying mostly infantry :-) I think bidding is the cure to the 7 year itch around here….
The bids mentioned from your link “Bidding systems” seems a tiny bit higher based on other things I’ve read. Not like I would know. I’ve never played with bidding… yet!
They seemed a bit high to me too, but it is amazing how fast those extra inf can get chewed up. A well coordinated allied player/s can really put a hurt on Ger quickly even with high bids.
I usually like playing RR with about a 6 bid (I’ll take more if I can get it though :D ). Most of the time they go to Afr, so it is easier to take Egy on G1 without worring about that pesky UK sub in the Med.
It might take a few games to see what works best for you guys, but hey if the bid turns out to be too high you get to make the allies struggle for a change. :D
It’s funny you mention that pesky sub. I was just talking AA to one of the local boyz and it centred around extra units in Libya to avoid the pesky sub. I really hate doing critical battles like that one with only a few units each. The odds never get to ‘smooth out’, the game ought not to be a crap shoot! :-)
4 outta 5 times all Germany ever puts into Africa in our scenario is 2-4 inf and maybe a tank, even if the transport is alive somehow on R4 Germany can’t afford to spare the resources. Lately we do 2 Inf, then a tank and maybe a second. Rather have 2 Inf then a tank on EE.
Yeah, I don’t usually send too much to Afr either, too costly to the European front (I have been burned many a time though - got too greedy)
In RR, sometimes I don’t use my tran in the baltic as fodder and I’ll bring a tank or 2 inf from Fin to Algeria during non-combat. Since those units are dead anyway might as well put them to better use.
And that “pesky” sub pretty much deters me from going to Egy on G1 with a tran and BB. Too many times I’ve been burned by missing and then the sub hits. Rarely will I do that attack anymore. So a bid really helps out in that case. Then if you want you can drop off reinforcements durning non-com.
I like that baltic transport to Algeria with troops from Norway during non-combat, never thought of that. :-)
I hate not using the German BB, a 4 on the first round is most useful. I think if I could do the Baltic transport move, get 2 infantry extra in Libya I’d still attack the Brt sub. Yes it does suck to miss with the BB and have it sunk, but it’s only a 1/9 chance that occurs and if it does, the transport retreats and the units end up in Libya. Even if you then lose both remaining transports it’s not the end of the world, you nurse Africa for what it’s worth and hang tough till the Japs come.