Germany-US vs UK-Japan-USSR



  • would a germany-american vs japan-uk-russia combo work?Do not say no if your reasons are “because it’s non-traditional”,“it’s against the rules”,etc.You can vote no if your reasons are like “it’s wouldn’t be fun”, “one side has a huge advantage”, or “one side will win”,etc. Vote based on whether you think it is an effective combination for a fun game

    I am very sorry for the excessive polls and topics I do but I am doing them for experimentation and to help me become a better A&A player.



  • You’re switching Japan and the US. Since the US is better than Japan, US/Germany will win.



  • any other responses?



  • U.K. will likely get smashed immediately, so I don’t see this working well.  Big advantage U.S.-Germany.


  • 2019 2018 2017

    Also, it will be difficult for Japan to do anything useful. They’d need a massive fleet and a lot of troops to threaten the US, and by the time they’ve built that, the war will be over in Europe.



  • It worked in revised, so it would also work somehow in AA42, but probably there would be bids needed.

    If someone wants to try it, I’m up for it in TripleA, we only need to do some very minor adjustments in the xml file, but I’m pretty sure we will work it out somehow, possibly with a little trying and failing.

    I have no idea what side would be favored, but probably US+Germany would be stronger than Germany+Japan, which hardly needs a bid at all.


  • '16 '15 '10

    Realistically I think Japan/UK/USSR would have a slight edge.  Japan starts out with 30 more TUV than USA and gets to go first.  UK has a good shot at taking out the cruiser/2 trn with its bomber UK1.  So unless Germany invests in a Med fleet right away UK should have good odds of holding Africa.  Meanwhile Japan is going to put a ton of pressure on the USA and Russia will have plenty of income to deal with Germany.  So United Kingdom itself should be safe and should get plenty of income from the colonies.

    Maybe with some map edits or some changes in turn order this could be a balanced scenario, but I’m inclined to think Japan/UK/USSR leverages its initial TUV edge into a wide economic victory.



  • @Zhukov44:

    Realistically I think Japan/UK/USSR would have a slight edge.  Japan starts out with 30 more TUV than USA and gets to go first.  UK has a good shot at taking out the cruiser/2 trn with its bomber UK1.  So unless Germany invests in a Med fleet right away UK should have good odds of holding Africa.  Meanwhile Japan is going to put a ton of pressure on the USA and Russia will have plenty of income to deal with Germany.  So United Kingdom itself should be safe and should get plenty of income from the colonies.

    Maybe with some map edits or some changes in turn order this could be a balanced scenario, but I’m inclined to think Japan/UK/USSR leverages its initial TUV edge into a wide economic victory.

    I agree. I think we need to draw a lot of attention to the fact that USSR can focus entirely to the west, and can put a lot of pressure on Germany if it does not match such aggression.

    I think that Germany’s air and US support can limit UK’s naval forces dramatically, but too much focus from the US will allow Japan to cause quite a ruckus (and too much focus from Germany allows for Russia’s advances).

    Instead of a common Moscow/Berlin race, it would be Berlin/London? Either way I don’t really think Moscow is in too much trouble. Although now I’m thinking that US can unload north of Russia.

    Very interesting thought experiment.



  • I disagree totally. UK would never be able to get a fleet. And US/G sealion on 3rd turn would proabably overrun London, 4th turn max. Russia usually commits most of its ressources against G, so I don’t see it causing a lot more trouble for GER. It cannot take Berlin before R5-R6, and that’s if G doesn’t turtle.

    UK instantly loses E and W. Canada on US1.

    Also, keep in mind that Japan will have a hard time raising its income. The 2 China/Sinkiang then… that’s it. The other ones are in Western Europe. Good luck getting your troops there. Also, no IC close to US or G.

    Bottom line for me is London will always fall before Berlin.



  • @coorran:

    I disagree totally. UK would never be able to get a fleet. And US/G sealion on 3rd turn would proabably overrun London, 4th turn max. Russia usually commits most of its ressources against G, so I don’t see it causing a lot more trouble for GER. It cannot take Berlin before R5-R6, and that’s if G doesn’t turtle.

    UK instantly loses E and W. Canada on US1.

    Also, keep in mind that Japan will have a hard time raising its income. The 2 China/Sinkiang then… that’s it. The other ones are in Western Europe. Good luck getting your troops there. Also, no IC close to US or G.

    Bottom line for me is London will always fall before Berlin.

    I have to admit that you’ve drawn me much closer to the middle of this argument. I do agree now that UK is completely boned. Their income is a lost cause (Canada, Africa), and they can just do their best to turtle, playing only to not lose London.

    I feel that if this happens it will take longer than 4 turns for the US/Germany team to take them. I think by this time Russia has made a dent on Germany’s eastern front… however I agree that Germany has the ability to send waves at London (taking very costly units from UK while still holding Berlin), while US viciously unloads upon UK.

    Lol, within a paragraph I’ve changed sides. I honestly just now realized the monstrosity that US is a one-step transport chain away from the UK capital. Although UK buying 6 inf, 2 tanks round one, and similar defensive buys each round is worth noting. I guess what I’m trying to think of most now is- what the heck does Japan do? US can still keep a Pacific naval force to limit Japan’s effectiveness (Atlantic being unnecessary).

    Ok, hehe. It seems like it would be very hard to stop the US and Germany from dominating.



  • It would be worth a try, here’s how I see it playing out:

    Russia sends everything at Germany
    Germany builds minimal sea forces and sends every land unit East, far outmatching Russia (it has nothing to fear from UK)
    UK cries itself to sleep every turn and builds as many infantry as possible, UK1 india factory may be worthwile just to keep Africa.
    Japan…. well they own the Pacific by far, I’d say probably starts streaming guys into Alaska. Best way to win though might be to help Russia hit Berlin. Japan can battle US and Germany for Africa
    US focuses on murdering UK, though it will probably won’t succeed for several rounds. Sacks Africa quickly along with Germany. This puts them up a few.

    I see US/Germany winning, they can take UK or Moscow before long. The real dark horse would be Japan, but they don’t really have the ability to pick up income outside of China and Sinkiang.



  • seems like UK’s India fleet  + Japan’s pacific fleet could be leveraged to put quite a bit of pressure on US pretty quickly.  UK would have to stick with defensive buys but they would have some stuff to do still, like taking brazil, supporting jap invasion of US, etc.



  • Maybe a Germany, UK, Japan vs USSR and US

    However Germany turns everytHing to the east and Japan starts to TDTM and takes alaska. USSR Eventually gets killed and US is stuck needing to beat Uk and Japanese navy

    So USSR,Japan v UK, Germany vs US could be intersting UK has to deal with Japan in the Pacific and US/Germany in Europe. The SU need to beat germany without UK and US help and maybe some Japanese fighters are needed in Cau and Rus to help defend. Japan plays as normal Taking the Pacific and Africa with no need to TDTM and so could also land in Alaska.

    That would be very interesting



  • i think the most balanced way to change up the teams would be GER + UK vs RUS + JAP + US.  the german/british side i think would be stronger than the normal Axis, but not so much.  UK vs. JAP in the pacific and south asia would play out pretty much the same, but the UK BB would give the ‘new axis’ a good position in the atlantic.  UK would be able to quickly help germany pressure russia, but they would hang on to most of their income and japan can be of considerable help in propping up moscow.  US would have to focus on taking the atlantic, they’d have to go either africa or europe.

    ANYWAY, it would be the same starting economies, except UK is a stronger power, due to not having to fight for africa initially and stronger in the atlantic.



  • @ragnarok628:

    i think the most balanced way to change up the teams would be GER + UK vs RUS + JAP + US.   the german/british side i think would be stronger than the normal Axis, but not so much.  UK vs. JAP in the pacific and south asia would play out pretty much the same, but the UK BB would give the ‘new axis’ a good position in the atlantic.  UK would be able to quickly help germany pressure russia, but they would hang on to most of their income and japan can be of considerable help in propping up moscow.  US would have to focus on taking the atlantic, they’d have to go either africa or europe.

    ANYWAY, it would be the same starting economies, except UK is a stronger power, due to not having to fight for africa initially and stronger in the atlantic.

    UK would need Germany’s help in stopping the US from constantly unloading on them.



  • @ragnarok628:

    i think the most balanced way to change up the teams would be GER + UK vs RUS + JAP + US.   the german/british side i think would be stronger than the normal Axis, but not so much.  UK vs. JAP in the pacific and south asia would play out pretty much the same, but the UK BB would give the ‘new axis’ a good position in the atlantic.  UK would be able to quickly help germany pressure russia, but they would hang on to most of their income and japan can be of considerable help in propping up moscow.  US would have to focus on taking the atlantic, they’d have to go either africa or europe.

    ANYWAY, it would be the same starting economies, except UK is a stronger power, due to not having to fight for africa initially and stronger in the atlantic.

    I actually like this a lot. I’ll have to try this one. You may have to mix up turn orders though. 1-2 punch from UK and Germany hitting Russia on subsequent turns could be too much. I would disagree on UK being stronger though. Japan has lots of territories to take quickly in most games, UK would have almost nothing to grab in your scenario, plus they will lose canada, india australia quick.



  • I did forget about losing canada.  but then, they can consolidate in E Canada, add 2 TRN of units + 2 fighters turn 1.  this would be a decent defense against what US can throw at that territory R1.

    i don’t think the US would be able to constantly unload on UK because of the initial naval advantage.  UK and GER can consolidate fleets right on the US eastern seaboard and with only modest reinforcements could prevent the US from taking control for several rounds at least.

    i think mr.biggg is right about UK in that they’ll have to worry about keeping up their income, though.  i guess the only expansion is russia.  i don’t think they stand a chance at making any progress further east, they’ll definitely lose their islands and india quickly.  japan doesn’t have as many expansion territories as in a normal game because of russia being an ally, so mostly they’ll just take islands and take the route through india to africa.  Germany will probably need to protect that route, and UK can make up for it by helping against russia.

    I’m interested to try this.  i don’t think i’d switch turn order, though, because i think any switches will just make things worse for UK or Russia.



  • @ragnarok628:

    i think the most balanced way to change up the teams would be GER + UK vs RUS + JAP + US.   the german/british side i think would be stronger than the normal Axis, but not so much.  UK vs. JAP in the pacific and south asia would play out pretty much the same, but the UK BB would give the ‘new axis’ a good position in the atlantic.  UK would be able to quickly help germany pressure russia, but they would hang on to most of their income and japan can be of considerable help in propping up moscow.  US would have to focus on taking the atlantic, they’d have to go either africa or europe.

    ANYWAY, it would be the same starting economies, except UK is a stronger power, due to not having to fight for africa initially and stronger in the atlantic.

    Sounds kinda interesting, but US+Rus+Jap will have a huge advantage over Ger+UK. Germany and UK would need a quick victory against Russia to win, and I think that they will be stopped by fighters from US and Japan. I’m sure that Ger+UK would need a bid, but if you think Ger+UK is strong enough, I’d be happy to try a game against you as US+Russia+Japan, You play Germany+UK. I can do the changes in the TripleA xml file.



  • @ragnarok628:

    I did forget about losing canada.  but then, they can consolidate in E Canada, add 2 TRN of units + 2 fighters turn 1.  this would be a decent defense against what US can throw at that territory R1.

    i don’t think the US would be able to constantly unload on UK because of the initial naval advantage.  UK and GER can consolidate fleets right on the US eastern seaboard and with only modest reinforcements could prevent the US from taking control for several rounds at least.

    i think mr.biggg is right about UK in that they’ll have to worry about keeping up their income, though.  i guess the only expansion is russia.  i don’t think they stand a chance at making any progress further east, they’ll definitely lose their islands and india quickly.  japan doesn’t have as many expansion territories as in a normal game because of russia being an ally, so mostly they’ll just take islands and take the route through india to africa.  Germany will probably need to protect that route, and UK can make up for it by helping against russia.

    I’m interested to try this.  i don’t think i’d switch turn order, though, because i think any switches will just make things worse for UK or Russia.

    PM me if (any of) you are interested in trying this scenario, the Ger+UK scenario, or a Ger+US scenario, but then I’d take US+Ger b/c I think they would have the advantage, but I have not tried any other scenarios except in Classic, where US+Ger worked almost as good as Ger+Japan. Any games (against me) will be preferably low luck, but I can accept regular dice if the opponent demands it to try this optional scenario or the Ger+US scenario.



  • I tried changing the alliances in TripleA, tested it against the AI, it seems fine. If anyone wants to try this, send a pm to me.



  • I think the US-Germany vs UK-USSR-Japan game set up could be balanced with a few minor modifications:

    1. Change play order to UK, US, USSR, Germany, Japan
          -Royal Navy gets a chance to get its act together and avoid being gutted on G1
          -Africa is preserved, at least for a while
          -US Carriers allowed to escape Japanese (who won’t have the Brits to worry about)
      2)Add Chicago and subtract Manila as Victory Cities,
          -Preserves the six per side start.
      3)Alter the map slightly to make North America a little more detailed.  Too convoluted to explain in text
          -I advocate this even for Spring 1942 in general
          -I’ve sketched a proposal but can’t figure out how to add the image  :? I drive a folk-lift for a living, this sort of thing isn’t my strong-suite. The file is on my desktop.  If you want to see it tell me how to show it to you.


  • So my roomate and I have been playing Germany-Us vs UK Japan USSR with the turn order UK,US,USSR,G,J.

    It is actually extraordinarily balanced. We’ve played over 12 turns now, probably about 10 hours, and it looks like there is no end in sight. UK got shut down but it takes fairly constant US investment to keep them down while fending off the Japanese. Germany and Russia have been going back and forth forever now. Africa was conquered by Germany and US, but is now back in UK’s hands thanks to Japan. The game may finally end if Germany can take down Moscow, but Japan has built an IC in Sinkaing to flood in defensive troops, otherwise it could be at least 5 or 6 more turns and go either way.



  • Started a game with Mr.Biggg’s pairing and turn order.
    It’s shocking how powerful the UK is when they go first: Sank US carrier in Hawaii, German battleship in Med, and German destroyer in Baltic; captured Algeria; reenforced Egypt (total: 4I, T, B); finished UK1 with: battleship, cruiser, and  two transports off Algeria; fully-loaded carrier with cruiser and transport off Egypt; newly purchased carrier (loaded), and two destroyers in the Channel; and a loaded transport in the southern Indian Ocean.
    I thought the Brits would land themselves a participation trophy….  😮



  • @Nomarclegs:

    Started a game with Mr.Biggg’s pairing and turn order.
    It’s shocking how powerful the UK is when they go first: Sank US carrier in Hawaii, German battleship in Med, and German destroyer in Baltic; captured Algeria; reenforced Egypt (total: 4I, T, B); finished UK1 with: battleship, cruiser, and  two transports off Algeria; fully-loaded carrier with cruiser and transport off Egypt; newly purchased carrier (loaded), and two destroyers in the Channel; and a loaded transport in the southern Indian Ocean.
    I thought the Brits would land themselves a participation trophy….  😮

    I’d be interested to hear what happens in the Atlantic as you and Mr.Biggg progress in your game. It seems like Germany should be focusing all of it’s attention along with the US to capture London; I’m not too sure if you can maintain a large enough fleet to prevent waves of transports (as both enemy capitals need only a pair of fleets each to have a constant stream of impending transports).



  • UK-USSR-Japan may be unstoppable…
    US: Evaquated Hawaii; sank Kwantung transport; overran Canada; and bought two each carriers and subs (all to east coast).
    USSR: Captured West Russia and Sinkiang; failed to take Belorussia; fortified Caucasus.
    Germany: retook WR; took Karelia (in force); retook Algeria (saving Brazil).
    Japan: Conquered China and Hawaii; consolidated Pac fleet off Hawaii; moved East Indies fleet to Carolines; sent two fighters and bomber to Caucasus IC in FIC.

    All signs point to epic US/UK naval battle(s) in the Atlantic. Japan onws the Pacific; Britain owns the Med; Russian and Japanese forces pooring in to prop up Moscow.  NOT what I saw coming.


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