Question regarding 18 inf Russian stack



  • In a game I played, I moved Russia’s 18 infantry into Sakha because I felt like it had the most flexibility to attack or defend. I’m a big of creating deadzones. Unfortunately, Japan invaded into Amur and I suddenly realized that my Sakha army was trapped. The Japanese player had flown a great majority of his planes into Manchuria (I was playing oob setup so I think this would change in Alpha) and I realized that no matter where I moved that I those 18 units were dead. I could attack but the counterattack would be too painful even if it cost Japan units and Japan can counter attack with major forces if Japan doesn’t declare war J1 or J2.

    Knowing this, I’d think the likely tactic would be to move the forces into Buryatia and move to Yakut the turn after. Yeah Russia will lose resources but won’t lose those troops without a proper and painful fight without air cover.

    I can see attacking but that just seems to be more of an annoyance than a proper tactic with teeth. This is especially true in Alpha setup.

    What do you guys think?



  • I much prefer spreading my 18 infantry out among the regions of Amur, Siberia, Sakha and Buryatia. IN my first game I put all of my infantry in Amur and the Japanese Annihilated me with minimal losses to themselves leaving all of eastern russia completely undefended. Now I take Korea on the first turn with a minimal amount of infantry (3 seems ideal) and then divide my infantry somewhat equally among Amur, Sakha, Siberia and Buryatia. SO japan can see that if he has aims of conquest in Russia it will probably take him at least 4 or 5 turns  before he can even knock out my infantry, and that would involve alot of forces that could be better used taking out China or India.



  • There are 3 strategic moves I like to make in the soviet far east, and it works well do deter japanese intervention as well as stop gap it if an invasion occurs.

    1. Re-deploy
    Move the bulk of the Soviet units back to the saftey of Buryatia, leaving only single infantry in the other Soviet territories. Leaving single infantry in territories deters “land grabbing” with single Japanese units.

    2. Re-enforce
    Send a Fighter, Tank, and AA gun to the far east as soon as possilbe to meet up with the stack in Buryatia, or meet witht the stack as it is falling back.

    3. Re-establish the Railroad
    Because there is no way to quickly get troops to the far east, the only option is to funnel them eastward. A neat tactic is to establish a land shuck of Infantry to Buryatia. Move one (or two if you feel daring) to the east each turn. And also bleed off one from the stack to go west to establish the link quicker.
    The link is established on R3, and even though you took 3 from the stack (or 6) you have now established a quick link to the east. Each turn Japan isnt killing Soviets, you can place one more on the border (or two if you did the gutsy move)

    Even if Germany is hammering you it is still important to not ignore the the eastern front……those units will never get there in time to help you…they are best kept over there. And the money you save defending it will help the USSR have more troops in the west in the long run.

    If you hold all the far east, and are only sending over 3-6 IPCs worth of units, you are gaining a guy in the west. Or a tank in the west if you are only sending single infantry eastward

    Hopefully this strategy becomes adopted by more than just myself and we see a lot less Japanese iterference in the Soviet Far East



  • Huh? It only takes 7 turns for the inf to reach Moscow. In late game, they’re very helpful



  • @Weezer 410

    Attacking Korea only serves to infuriate the Japanese/axis power.
    No promises will be kept over there on the other hand.
    The best you can do is prepare for the worst……and the best way Russia can do that is by defending.

    @calvinhobbesliker
    or by holding it you have collected 9IPCs*7turns=63 IPCs from the east if you can hold it all, you need only expend 3 IPCs a turn minimum to have a decent chance of at least holding at the Buryatia line…tying up a lot of Japanese units that if you pulled back wholesale would be touching Moscow on J-8, a little later but the same ending as revised. Japs and Germans on both sides of a Moscow filled with US and UK airpower.



  • @oztea:

    @Weezer 410

    Attacking Korea only serves to infuriate the Japanese/axis power.
    No promises will be kept over there on the other hand.
    The best you can do is prepare for the worst……and the best way Russia can do that is by defending.

    @calvinhobbesliker
    or by holding it you have collected 9IPCs*7turns=63 IPCs from the east if you can hold it all, you need only expend 3 IPCs a turn minimum to have a decent chance of at least holding at the Buryatia line…tying up a lot of Japanese units that if you pulled back wholesale would be touching Moscow on J-8, a little later but the same ending as revised. Japs and Germans on both sides of a Moscow filled with US and UK airpower.

    Not 9 ipcs. Japan will take and hold Soviet far East, Amur on the first turn and will continue, builing a IC in Manchuria to help. They have 3 turns where their only enemies are China and Russia



  • i try to retreat enough to keep Japanese airforce occupied closeby, but far enough to get anihilated by them, meanwhile sending an tactical bomber +  fighter. Faster than a tank (in this case crucial) and also gives the TB a 4 attack, also faster to return to Europe when things are getting hot there… might decide to buy a bomber, since they have even better reach.

    Not that i can win from japanese troops if they are decided to push on, but it will scare them off abit, and keep part of their huge airfoce tied up.

    Also works in combination with sending  for example a tank+mech into China. Tunguska or Novosibirsk aren’t bad places to park those aircrafts.

    Also if Japan doesn’t commit, their ground units will get stuck around Yenisey (as well as those russian units, in a stalemate situation).

    If Germany attacks Russia in G1 i probably won’t do this, though.



  • @calvinhobbesliker

    it is vitaly important that other powers also play ball in the pacific for this to work.
    Russia is a target of oppurtunity……Japan attacks it because it has nothing else to do.

    Consider the UK Pacific Fleetmonster strategy as the peanut butter to the holding the Soviet Far East jelly

    http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=20731.0



  • I like to attack Korea because its 3 less bucks for Japan and it buys the other Russian territories time because the Japanese player has to use up his precious land units to attack, Im assuming I have two infantry left in Korea, and an IC in Manchuria would divert forces from southern china (burma road) and India which is what I am really trying to accomplish with those 18 infantry.

    Also usually Japan will not have many land units available to defend Amur when he attacks J1 so it should be fairly easy to counter attack Amur R2 and stall the Japanese even more!



  • It does not take three bucks from japan….since they take it right back
    And Russia does not get three more bucks because Korea is Convoy Raided on Russias collect income phase



  • @oztea:

    It does not take three bucks from japan….since they take it right back
    And Russia does not get three more bucks because Korea is Convoy Raided on Russias collect income phase

    The strategic value alone is worth 3 infantry IMO



  • @Weezer:

    I like to attack Korea because its 3 less bucks for Japan and it buys the other Russian territories time because the Japanese player has to use up his precious land units to attack, Im assuming I have two infantry left in Korea, and an IC in Manchuria would divert forces from southern china (burma road) and India which is what I am really trying to accomplish with those 18 infantry.

    Also usually Japan will not have many land units available to defend Amur when he attacks J1 so it should be fairly easy to counter attack Amur R2 and stall the Japanese even more!

    @Weezer: Attacking Korea with Russia works well OOB but not so well in the Alpha setup when Korea has two more infantry and Manchuria has two more infantry also. I still think it’s an overall waste of an three infantry. Sending more wouldn’t help either because two or even 18 infantry would just get slaughter. Korea’s a horrible dead zone for Russia except to just irritate Japan (and if that’s the allies plan then that might useful).

    @Oztea: I think your suggestions have merit as I’ve strongly considered sending the airplanes but I think Germany has to have tried SeaLion to be able to give up some of the offensive power. There is some merit of sending the airpower R1 and trying to get it back to Russia by R4-R5, but there is simply just too much distance. Also I think tactical retreats and avoiding deadzones will allow Russia to survive in the east for a significant period of time.



  • What I have found is if Germany does not do Sea Lion, you have to move them back to Moscow.  If Germany is attacking at full power vs. the U.S.S.R. (with Support from Italy) the U.S.S.R. is doomed.  You should move them R1 directly to Moscow and keep them trucking.  Hell if Japan sends a couple of ground forces your way that might be what tips the balance in Asia for the rest of the Allies.

    SEND them to Moscow.  You’ll need them there.



  • Dooming moscow is not a gamebreaker in this edition
    It opens the possibility of getting france back in the game, if the Allies can push past normandy

    At 17 if it controls all but FIC, it is a power that is near Russia’s IPC stockpile when it fell.



  • I like to try and save as many of the 18 as possible while pulling back to Europe as necessary. I try to keep their destination flexible…if Germany is kicking a** they will head to Moscow, otherwise they can stay in Buryatia/Yakut if Japan is not threatening the stack. The stack can also safely reach Kansu in western China by R5.

    Generally, I agree with the OP’s initial strategy. Most important thing is to realize that any units moved to Sakha on R1 will die on J2 if the Japanese player is paying attention.

    As far as dealing with Japanese in Siberia…my strategy is the same as in Anniversary: slowly build mobile forces (tanks, planes) with Russia in the early turns for use in counterattacking Germany. Preserve these units at (almost) all costs. When the Allies arrive in Europe, their first objective is to blunt Barbarossa, allowing the Russians to go nearly all-out against the Japanese with their mobile forces + eastern infantry.



  • @oztea:

    Dooming moscow is not a gamebreaker in this edition
    It opens the possibility of getting france back in the game, if the Allies can push past normandy

    At 17 if it controls all but FIC, it is a power that is near Russia’s IPC stockpile when it fell.

    Basically losing Moscow is dooming the allies in this edition.  If Moscow falls, Germany (or maybe Italy) gets all of the Russian income and there are no allies which can take back the Russian Capital.  For the Axis to win they must take Moscow unless they are planing to invade U.S.A. for victory cities.

    Once the Axis have consolidated and linked up it’s good night for the Allies.  It’s been that way in every edition.  It is that way now.  Germany just has to neuter the U.K. fleet in the Atlantic.  I think that a sub in the Balitic wil also help them fight the U.K. economically.

    The lesson here is to not lose Moscow because if you do, Germany’s Attention is now 100% on U.K.!  Game over.



  • Ozeta, is this what your “redeploy the railroad plan” looks like:
    R1:Move 1 inf from Buryatia-Yakut, while stacking 17 inf in Buryatia. Move 1 or 2 inf Moscow-Samara
    R2: infs Samara-Novosibirsk
    infs Moscow-Samara
    inf Yakut-Yenisey
    inf Bury-Yakut
    R3:
    infs Moscow-Samara
    infs Samara-Novosib
    infs Novosib-Tim

    Then, it looks like this:

    TransSiberian Railway.AAM



  • Of course, i assume forces in Bury counter any small Jap force in the North with a few inf? Should Russia send mechs, tanks, or planes to the East?

    After R3, R4 and R5 will add 2 inf to Buryatia and each subsequent turn will add 2 inf.

    I have to ask, why move 2 inf west from Bury if they’re just going to return?



  • @oztea:

    Dooming moscow is not a gamebreaker in this edition
    It opens the possibility of getting france back in the game, if the Allies can push past normandy

    At 17 if it controls all but FIC, it is a power that is near Russia’s IPC stockpile when it fell.

    This is interesting, trade Russia for France (at some point). The axis strengthen would be way out of range unless most of it was lost in the battle for Moscow (make them pay). The US swoops in to destroy Italy and you now have 3 allies all in western Europe (knocking at Germany’s front door), instead of two coming from the west, and Russia in the east. If Italy does fall the 3 allied powers will have back to back turns (ooch).


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