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G1 attacks on the Royal Navy



  • I posted my opening German moves for a recent game, and this community seemed surprised that I left the UK battleships alive. So, assuming you are not planning any Sealion, do you attack the Royal Navy, and if so, how much?

    I only have two global games under my belt, but I’ve played E1940 5 or 6 times (I’ve played every game as the Axis). The only G1 attacks I make on the Royal Navy are sending two subs against each of the two destroyer/transport groupings, and the 5th sub against one of the non-destroyer targets for a pot-shot.

    A lot of people like to go after the UK battleships (because they’re worth 40 IPCs?), but I’m ok with letting them live for several reasons:

    -generally, I don’t try to contest the Atlantic as Germany. I’ll build up my Fortress Europe defences, but I’ll let the allies do whatever they will at sea. As such, the only real use the UK player gets from these battleships is for bombardment. Even assuming that the UK player will land troops every turn, he’s only taking out 1.5 of my inf/turn on average, or 4ipcs/turn.

    -I have been burned on my initial invasion of France if I don’t bring all available ground and at least 3 planes. It sucks to spend 45 minutes setting up a board only to lose the game with failed risky G1 move – others may have different experiences, but I failed to take France enough times that I consider attacking without a lot of air cover a “risky move.” Also, I like to save as many tanks/mechs as I can from the engagement for my G1 or G2 Barabossa.

    -the most annoying thing the UK player can do early on is to land troops in one of my territories. It doesn’t even have to be a threat to me, but a landing will disrupt my plans for Russia. Taking out the transports pushes the earliest landing to UK2.

    -if the UK player can only really use his battleships for bombardment and i destroyed his transports, the battleships can do nothing but protect his sea stack.

    -by the time the US gets involved and the landings get serious, the naval force around Britain becomes unstoppable anyways – taking out a couple battleships from that force doesn’t really change the fact that there’s a gigantic navy on my doorstep, and I am going to have to deal with landings.



  • You can easily take out the battleships AND the transports. If you don’t waste land troops on Normandy, you have a 90%+ chance of taking France using no planes.

    What the Battleships also do is protect a moderate fleet that the UK builds before any US fleet is in the picture. Without the BBs, Germany can more easily kill ships.

    I would take out everything in Z109, 110, 111, and 112. Let the Canadian transport bring units to UK, but it’ll get sunk.

    The BB’s can also go against Italy in the Med, strangling their NO(which they can get even after a Taranto attack because Italy attacks the DD, CC, CV, ftr, tac in Z93 with everything possible and Germany finishes it off with planes). If they really have nothing better to do, they can go round Africa or thru the Panama canal into the Pacific



  • Actually, since you apparently leave 2 UK cruisers alone, UK gets to bombard with 2 cruisers, 2 battleships, which take out 2.3333 inf a turn, or 7 ipcs per turn



  • I attack sz109 w 1bmb & 1sub, sz110 & 111 each with 2subs, 1ftr & 1tac, and I attack sz112 with 2ftr, 1bb & 1ca.  I do this whether or not I’m going Sea Lion - in fact I never decide on Sea Lion till seeing UK1.

    Taking out those battleships is good.  If you have naval presence (I build a cv in sz112), it can take UK a long time to build a secure fleet.  When I’ve gotten unlucky and left a battleship alive, UK’s always been right on my poor German butt.



  • I agree with the others, and take out as much of the Royal Navy as possible w/subs & air G1. This is the only time those BB’s will be exposed. Your right though it will make the battle for Paris go an extra round (or so) which is costly for German ground troops. You’ll probably loose a couple planes too in the sea battles, but its been worth it IMO. The thing is if you destroy those BB’s, you can keep the Brits stuck on their island longer and force them to rebuild (money they aren’t spending in Africa). You also have a chance of knocking out the Americans if they come over light (went heavy Pacific) w/o the backing of those English BB’s & cruisers. I have also seen one of the BB’s survive, and it becomes the back bone for the combined allies amphibs on the continent. Your 100% right their going to come just don’t make it easier for them though. If nothing else destroying the RN will delay the inevitable landings. Its been my experience that the longer you can delay the allies the better, and any time you can trade expensive allied war ships for cheap subs you do it.

    I have to say though that I was surprised that the France tt didn’t have an AA gun (I think France has AA gun in one of the AA50 set-ups, but of coarse it starts out German). Maybe this was done intentionally to encourage the use of air units in the Battle for Paris sparing some of the RN. I know I would think twice about using air units in the land battle if there was an AA gun def, then the RN would become even a more juicier target.



  • Is it better to go heavy at the Royal Navy, which forces you to use heavy ground troops against France, which in turn denies you an opportunity to stack up against Moscow (non-combating those Holland/Belgium tanks, WG mechs, and Slovakia/Hungary tanks instead of sending them to France)?

    It seems to me, in a very general, strategic sense, that you have to either clean that Navy out good OR make sure you’re in a position to seize Russia before the U.S. really gets into the mix. If you end up in a position where the allies have the Atlantic AND Moscow still stands, your goose is cooked my friend.



  • @Jercules:

    Is it better to go heavy at the Royal Navy, which forces you to use heavy ground troops against France, which in turn denies you an opportunity to stack up against Moscow (non-combating those Holland/Belgium tanks, WG mechs, and Slovakia/Hungary tanks instead of sending them to France)?

    It seems to me, in a very general, strategic sense, that you have to either clean that Navy out good OR make sure you’re in a position to seize Russia before the U.S. really gets into the mix. If you end up in a position where the allies have the Atlantic AND Moscow still stands, your goose is cooked my friend.

    Welcome to the forums Jercules!

    That’s certainly food for thought.  In my experience if Germany kills those boats and retains a fleet, UK can’t build a secure navy for a long time.  This obviously helps against Russia, but maybe Leaving some boats and doing France light (with planes) as an all out Barbarossa rush could pay off.  Do it with an IC in Romania perhaps?



  • Hi guys I have been reading a lot about killing the Royal Navy with subs but I remember asking Krieghund about subs and he told me that they can only start an attack if they are in the same sea zone with an enemy ship meaning they have to prexist in the same SZ. You cannot move them from another SZ and attack afterwords. I don’t know if I understood it well. If you are reading this Krieghund please clarify, because if I am right you cannot kill the Royal navy on G1 or G2. :?



  • @orcageo:

    Hi guys I have been reading a lot about killing the Royal Navy with subs but I remember asking Krieghund about subs and he told me that they can only start an attack if they are in the same sea zone with an enemy ship meaning they have to prexist in the same SZ. You cannot move them from another SZ and attack afterwords. I don’t know if I understood it well. If you are reading this Krieghund please clarify, because if I am right you cannot kill the Royal navy on G1 or G2. :?

    i think you misunderstood soemthing. you move your subs in the combat move to the SZ where the enemy ships you attack are. then you do combat.



  • @zooooma:

    @Jercules:

    Is it better to go heavy at the Royal Navy, which forces you to use heavy ground troops against France, which in turn denies you an opportunity to stack up against Moscow (non-combating those Holland/Belgium tanks, WG mechs, and Slovakia/Hungary tanks instead of sending them to France)?

    It seems to me, in a very general, strategic sense, that you have to either clean that Navy out good OR make sure you’re in a position to seize Russia before the U.S. really gets into the mix. If you end up in a position where the allies have the Atlantic AND Moscow still stands, your goose is cooked my friend.

    Welcome to the forums Jercules!

    That’s certainly food for thought.  In my experience if Germany kills those boats and retains a fleet, UK can’t build a secure navy for a long time.  This obviously helps against Russia, but maybe Leaving some boats and doing France light (with planes) as an all out Barbarossa rush could pay off.  Do it with an IC in Romania perhaps?

    I’ve had good success with a G1 Barabossa -> G6 Moscow, but that requires all available mobile units, which means that all of the non-infantry ground forces must survive France. The only way I can see doing this is to use my full airforce there, with maybe the Norway plane helping out with the Russian navy. I’ll use my subs against the UK transports to buy me what turns out to be a very crucial turn of no landings, and then it’s all-out towards Moscow.



  • I am all for sinking the UK fleet on G1 and build the Aircraft Carrier.  Then mostly I threaten to sink the rebuilt Royal Navy and Americans.  My Germany never wants to spend another dollar in the Atlantic.

    Sometimes them darned Brits do something silly and entice me into taking London even though we would rather kill Russians and capture Russian territories.

    Maybe not killing the British Battleships makes it more likely England will do something silly like build tanks in South Africa UK1.  I would rather not deal with all them UK boats that quickly.


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