@Krieghund thanks again. Pretty sure they are going J4 and sealion. Hold on!
Need help forming strategy: Operation Penta-"gone". When US builds KIF?
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The nice thing about seizing Alberta turn G3 (in a US/USSR 3 turn neutral plan), it permits the Japanese air force to get to the Atlantic faster than any other route.
i’m confused (alot of strat on these pages)… how does Germany reach Alberta in turn 3?
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@special:
The nice thing about seizing Alberta turn G3 (in a US/USSR 3 turn neutral plan), it permits the Japanese air force to get to the Atlantic faster than any other route.
i’m confused (alot of strat on these pages)… how does Germany reach Alberta in turn 3?
Sorry for the various strats, trying to “figure” out a viable way to pull it off.
Germany reaches Alberta on G3, by moving from Iceland (sz123) to Alberta (sz121) as the northern most part of Alberta “reaches” around at the top to connect to sz121 by about an inch of its border(right next to Greenland). Sea zone 121 appears to connect to Greenland/Quebec/Alberta.
Its weird, but Alberta seems to be one of the tallest territories on the map (Japan or Brazil might be taller). (With a German air base, Japan can fly 5 from there to reach Scotland or sea zone 101 if they can land in Ontario/Quebec/New Brunswick; Iceland is only 4 spaces away).
Anyway, in Global, unless someone sees this coming, the air base in Soviet Far East, and the German transports in Iceland may not tip off the US that Alberta is the goal. Again, even if not going after the U.S., this “appears” to be the fastest way to get to the Atlantic in Global.
Personally, I see more UK-India players, with the money they have from not being attacked, declare war on Japan UK2 just to liberate Yunnan for China, since they go before China and can thus assure the Burma road N/O. It would be a vary cautious UK player that waits while China fights Japan.
It is true that you can just fly over anyway on J3, but declaring war J3 permits the US to land on Iceland US3 when they declare war on the axis. I just noticed that you can land in Scotland on J4 as the US can not easily reach Scotland from 101, they would need to be closer, probably in 103,109,117 as Italy taking New Brunswick would deny the naval base.
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Sorry for the various strats, trying to “figure” out a viable way to pull it off.
Germany reaches Alberta on G3, by moving from Iceland (sz123) to Alberta (sz121) as the northern most part of Alberta “reaches” around at the top to connect to sz121 by about an inch of its border(right next to Greenland). Sea zone 121 appears to connect to Greenland/Quebec/Alberta.
Its weird, but Alberta seems to be one of the tallest territories on the map (Japan or Brazil might be taller). (With a German air base, Japan can fly 5 from there to reach Scotland or sea zone 101 if they can land in Ontario/Quebec/New Brunswick; Iceland is only 4 spaces away).
Anyway, in Global, unless someone sees this coming, the air base in Soviet Far East, and the German transports in Iceland may not tip off the US that Alberta is the goal. Again, even if not going after the U.S., this “appears” to be the fastest way to get to the Atlantic in Global.
Personally, I see more UK-India players, with the money they have from not being attacked, declare war on Japan UK2 just to liberate Yunnan for China, since they go before China and can thus assure the Burma road N/O. It would be a vary cautious UK player that waits while China fights Japan.
No need to be sorry, it is hard to avoid in a growing topic. :-)
I like reading your thinking faraway from any box strategies, they are always daring and surprising. You do have to assume alot of actions/purchases from Allied side (and i realize: if not you cannot think past turn 2) and that will probably be the weak spot in these strategies.
By the way, i usually plays the Allies so i read your strats from that point of vies (don’t know if that is good or bad)Now, an airbase in Sov. Far East should raise more than a few eyebrows in the Allied camp, as that location clearly points so North America/Canada (any other directions make no sense, so they will know you’ll be going out for them, only they cannot know exactly which territory you’ll aim for) and flying over Brit. Col is quite a clever move, and a nice exercise in synchronisation.
I do wonder how all this would affect the rest of the game.
By the way, thinking as India, i would still not attack Japan, but instead use my extra resources to help out in the Middle-East and Africa. Or just to build up forces (it would depend on the situation). It’s only 3 turns until war will start anyway, there’s enough useful to be done until that time. I’d prefer for Russia to help out abit in China.
Edit: yeah maybe i am very cautious
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Anyway, in Global, unless someone sees this coming, the air base in Soviet Far East, and the German transports in Iceland may not tip off the US that Alberta is the goal. Again, even if not going after the U.S., this “appears” to be the fastest way to get to the Atlantic in Global.
If they do see it coming, USA needs to build enough ground forces to blow up Alberta (you can land three German units plus an aa there), as well as hold Western from a potential J3 assault (parking the bulk of the IJN in sz12 prevents US navy from blocking Hawaii or California). They also want to prevent (or beat back) a J4 landing in Panama, lest the IJN reach the Atlantic.
I think USA might have their hands full even if you tell them your plan.
@JamesAlemanlink=topic=20678.msg703769#msg703769date=1287728978:
Personally, I see more UK-India players, with the money they have from not being attacked, declare war on Japan UK2 just to liberate Yunnan for China, since they go before China and can thus assure the Burma road N/O. It would be a vary cautious UK player that waits while China fights Japan.
In my games India focuses on Africa and the Mediterranean. So while they might be happy to liberate Yunnan, they may not have the resources in that area. It’s true though, the only consequences of a UK2 DOW are limited to whatever Japan can do to UK on J3. Allies might not see flying over BC as a threat.
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I’m currently waiting on a ruling regarding what territories C.US borders.
Did you ever get that ruling? On the back of the board (where the picture is wrapped around) Central US clearly touches Alberta. But if we get a ruling that the two don’t touch, the Japanese air force is safe in Alberta even if they declare war so as to fly over BC.
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Nothing is official at the time of the response. However, Kevin indicated that it may likely be considered adjacent. They haven’t decided.
If I play the allies, I think I’ll get in the habit of leaving ground units produced in Central, as they are still adjacent to sz 101 and have more reach, unless you plan on empty transports meeting your land units on New Brunswick.
Should it be adjacent, the US starts with like 10 land units and I think 13 or so air units and I suspect it will not be safe to land there with a US at war. Especially since they will have 2 rounds of production on the board. Hopefully it isn’t connected or you can get UK to declare war on Japan turn 2.
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Looks like Japan and UK can fly over each others territories without a formal declaration of war.
See Krieghund’s post: (Point number 5) copied below for your convenience.
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=20897.msg705079#msg705079“5 - There is nothing in the rules to support your view. There is a general restriction on powers not at war with anyone flying over other powers’ territories, but this doesn’t apply here as each of these powers is at war with someone. There are also specific restrictions, but none of them prevent UK and Japan from flying over each other’s territories. This could change in the FAQ, but I doubt it.”
This means there is no need for Japan to declare war on anyone or for anyone to declare war on Japan turn 2.
Now, Japan is able to fly over British Columbia to land in German occupied Alberta on J3 regardless of war status. (Personally, I would like to see this addressed, but that is the game as it stands).
Therefor in America first or London first plans, sending the Japanese air force to the Atlantic is assured when the US is kept neutral for 3 turns provided the Japanese build an air base in Soviet Far East on turn 2.
Note: Russia can attack S.F.East on turn 2, if they stacked 12 or fewer infantry in Siberia on turn 1, very unlikely(or seldom seen).
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I have a few problems with all of this as follows…
1. As pointed out the Uk has no reason to declare on Japan…the USA player would kill the brit player if they did that. This would be a case of the allied players not talking to each other. In which case they are going to lose anyway.
2. The USA player can’t be so stupid as to disreguard threats near them, you can’t suprise them really. Again if the USA player is that stupid you don’t need weird tactics to beat them, you can beat them straight up through tactics.
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I have a few problems with all of this as follows…
1. As pointed out the Uk has no reason to declare on Japan…the USA player would kill the brit player if they did that. This would be a case of the allied players not talking to each other. In which case they are going to lose anyway.
2. The USA player can’t be so stupid as to disreguard threats near them, you can’t suprise them really. Again if the USA player is that stupid you don’t need weird tactics to beat them, you can beat them straight up through tactics.
I agree completely on both points.
USA should see anything that can reach it the next turn as serious (especially as it is faraway from all the action so anything within reach is highly suspicious.
Ground troop builds are the right answer (and they are not at all waisted IPC’s, since sooner or later they all will have to board for either Europe or Asia). -
I have a few problems with all of this as follows…
1. As pointed out the Uk has no reason to declare on Japan…the USA player would kill the brit player if they did that. This would be a case of the allied players not talking to each other. In which case they are going to lose anyway.
2. The USA player can’t be so stupid as to disreguard threats near them, you can’t suprise them really. Again if the USA player is that stupid you don’t need weird tactics to beat them, you can beat them straight up through tactics.
1: You no longer need UK to declare war on Japan. See reply number 32 for explanation. Japan is free to fly over UK territories while neutral. This does not cause a declaration of war, per Krieghund.
2: You no longer need to surprise the US. In fact, it appears that keeping US neutral 3 turns prohibits them from being able to stop this air force move.
Finally, the only player able to stop/impact this, is USSR. They need to shove 12 units to Siberia turn 1, to threaten a take back of Soviet far East. Japan should lose 2 air units and 2 ground units destroying this force on J2. This is not likely, as Japan hasn’t started the game yet, so they would have to “guess” that Japan is going this route and expose a large portion of their starting Eastern forces to a Japanese invasion.
This post is regarding moving the starting Japanese air force to German occupied Alberta. It is not an argument for just America first. It is a discussion for how to always be able to get the air force to the Atlantic. America first may have a lot of problems yet to be resolved. This is one less problem.
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