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Most viable turn to declare war as the Axis



  • As we all know from the stand alone of Pacific 1940 that Japan’s best chances of winning were attacking on turn 1 against everyone.  I still haven’t been able to get a full global game rolling yet, sad I know, but I was wondering what everyone else thought about when is the best time for the Axis to go to “full blown” war against the Allies.  Yes the USA gets a boost for going to war, yes the Germans get money for not being at war with Russia.  I see tons of people waiting til turn 3 if they are not attacked sooner in the pacific portion of the board, to declare war.  Are Germany and Italy not strong enough to handle the USA getting into the war sooner?  I mean afterall, if Japan does its classic turn 1 “I annihilate everything” strategy, then would it not force the USA players hand to devote more resources sooner to fighting back in the Pacific?

    I just want to know everyone else’s thoughts on the matter to get a better understanding of the global get scenario for when I actually play my first round of it.



  • I’ve never had success attacking with Japan in the 1st turn in either pacific or global. I focus all of Japan’s efforts on eliminating China. About that time the US & UK come into the war and I stay focused westward with Japan until I take Calcutta. UK player is usually buying nothing but infantry and playing defense. By the time I get to Calcutta They are usually sitting on 20-30 infantry + tanks and planes.



  • I tend to declare with with Japan on J3 and Germany and Italy often wait until turn 4 or 5 to go after Russia. I know it seems late to most people but it has been working wonders for me and have not lost since I tried it.


  • '10

    I would say the later the better.



  • So I guess the other thing I am wondering about is, does going to full out war later give the Axis the possibility for making a mistake or 2 early on and being able to recover from them?  From what I have read on a lot of threads is that Russia will rarely make it into the war in Europe until turn 4 or 5 or whenever it is they can fight there, basically giving them one attacking front and one bolstering front.  I still find it hard to believe that Japan should not go flat out the first turn and take out those key transports and strongholds of the Allies.  Its interesting to see things done differently I admit, because I have had just the Pacific board to stare at for hours on end.

    Thanks for your opinions, I hope more people post what they think on this thread.



  • It’s not just the income of the U.S. that can be a pain - in my last game, a turn 3 DOW by Japan allowed America to retake England after it was held by the Germans for a turn, that turn.  Yeah, obviously they’d have waited just one more turn, but that DOW allows them to act sooner than the Axis would like them to.  That being said, I wouldn’t declare before turn 3, probably ever, including Barbarossa.  I’m curious about waiting until turn 5 (unless I have some really good targets of opportunity) and seeing how that works out for me.



  • The Allies wouldn’t let you wait to turn 5 to dow America will do it at end of turn 3 so they get the +30 IPC incme and Soviets get + 5 No as well so declaring war G5 won’t happen


  • Customizer

    I don’t see how Japan can win declaring war turn 1.  I tried that in Pacific 40 and Japan was crushed.  They did manage to get the DEI, but USA came over with a large fleet and duked it out with the Japan navy.  They lost the first battle, but also cost Japan several warships.  Thing was, USA was making so much money they could afford to replace their losses and Japan couldn’t.  Japan was so busy toiling on the mainland with the Chinese and Brits and simply couldn’t match USA’s naval builds.  Eventually the Japanese fleet was whittled down to almost nothing, the Chinese were a constant pain with extra infantry springing up everywhere and the Brits were hitting the Japs with tanks from India.  Then the USA started building transports and troops to put in them.  Two or three rounds later, Tokyo was under American control.
    I always wait as long as possible before bringing America into the war, Russia too.  As Japan, you can concentrate more on eliminating China.  Maybe you can even provoke UK or ANZAC to attack you, in which case USA is still neutral.  Japan can ususally handle them as well as China if they don’t have to worry about the US Navy.  Also, by the end of round 3, Germany should have Paris and maybe even London under control with a decent buildup for a successful Barbarossa.  Italy, with any luck, should control the Med, taken Cairo and ready to start grabbing up IPCs in Africa.  Especially if Germany gets London, as there will be no new British units coming from South Africa.



  • Of course the Allies would take that opportunity, I’m talking about diving head first G5 into Russia, as opposed to moving in earlier.  I wasn’t very clear on that part, sorry.  G5 is the earliest the Germans can do that while maxing out their not at war bonus, because it’s highly likely the Russians will DOW on R4.



  • Oh I thought you meant waiting to DOW russia without Russian dowing ( :lol:) you



  • Japan should definitely wait until turn 3 to attack and possibly J4 depending on what is going on in Europe. As for Germany and Italy with Russia, holding out until G5 seems to work amazingly well for me. It maximizes your bonus and also allows you to push out those subs and bombers with Italy and Germany in order to make sure that the US isn’t coming anywhere near you until they have built a heavy escort fleet, same goes for Britain. 2-3 subs a turn (more once the war in Russia is going well, 3-4 minimum) will keep the British and US at bay so long as you have some air force (bombers especially for range) to add some punch to those subs. I often have half the Atlantic sea zones filled with a single sub. This way the allies can only kill one at a time and then my cheaper sub can kill the spread out destroyers backed by air power and again more specifically bombers for reaching further into the Atlantic. I tend to try to get 3-4 bombers with both Italy and Germany by the time I take Leningrad on G6 or G7.



  • My Japanese feel like they are spinning their wheels in China for four turns if they wait that lkng to attack the Europeans.  The DEI income really fortifies India and the darned 40ipc Russians just might wander towards China to keep them clicking. Turn two is my current favorite for taking Hong Kong Malaya the territory bordering Malaya nd one of the DEI.  The Americans are just too weak to do much then.

    Now if the stack of 18 in siberia get close enough I do have to kill them and it costs me a turn.

    If Sea Lion goes down i think about waiting as Japan.

    Far as attacking Russia goes I thing a non Sea Lion Germany is ready G3. Would like to earlier but i am too busy in the Balkins. Soviets back up too far and I’ll attack G2. Only so many turns until American money comes into play…



  • G1 attack by germany is this game that is getting played

    http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=20580.0



  • J3 has been working well….



  • Great to several perspectives on this subject.  I would like to see it run through a couple times with full out war, with the exception of Russia I guess, starting at turn 1, then turn 2, then turn 3.  I understand the point of stalling USA for a few turns globally, but if Russia is only having a minimal impact on the pacific with its 18 inf then I don’t see why not go balls out with Japan on turn 1.  You can take several chinese territories, Hong Kong, Phillipines, destroy 3 allied transports and other sea vessels, and have a mainland factory being constructed.  Even if you bring the USA into the war turn 1, they still have to build on their first turn, then move ships into forward positions on turn 2 and begin actually attacking on turn 3.  If the Japan player plays like they would have if pacific is its stand alone game, then they should be applying enough pressure to keep China and ANZAC basically screwed the entire time, while also keeping India and west coast USA in check.

    I do like the comments but I really want to try a turn 1 Japan attack with that Pacific only mentality.  I think it could do enough to help Germany and Italy by making the USA put tons of cash into the pacific.



  • @Gharen:

    Great to several perspectives on this subject.  I would like to see it run through a couple times with full out war, with the exception of Russia I guess, starting at turn 1, then turn 2, then turn 3.  I understand the point of stalling USA for a few turns globally, but if Russia is only having a minimal impact on the pacific with its 18 inf then I don’t see why not go balls out with Japan on turn 1.  You can take several chinese territories, Hong Kong, Phillipines, destroy 3 allied transports and other sea vessels, and have a mainland factory being constructed.  Even if you bring the USA into the war turn 1, they still have to build on their first turn, then move ships into forward positions on turn 2 and begin actually attacking on turn 3.  If the Japan player plays like they would have if pacific is its stand alone game, then they should be applying enough pressure to keep China and ANZAC basically screwed the entire time, while also keeping India and west coast USA in check.

    I do like the comments but I really want to try a turn 1 Japan attack with that Pacific only mentality.  I think it could do enough to help Germany and Italy by making the USA put tons of cash into the pacific.

    3 transports? I guess you’re not using the alpha setup



  • I would possibly agree with you if your using the OOB game but the Alpha set up is much better! Not much point in discussing a strategy for a version that shouldn’t really be used that much.



  • So basically no one plays the out of the box setup anymore?  Why?  Is the alpha setup just that much better?



  • @Gharen:

    So basically no one plays the out of the box setup anymore?  Why?  Is the alpha setup just that much better?

    Yes



  • @calvinhobbesliker:

    @Gharen:

    So basically no one plays the out of the box setup anymore?  Why?  Is the alpha setup just that much better?

    Yes

    second that whole heartedly



  • @Blitchga:

    @calvinhobbesliker:

    @Gharen:

    So basically no one plays the out of the box setup anymore?  Why?  Is the alpha setup just that much better?

    Yes

    second that whole heartedly

    Yes. Just look at the setup and you’ll see why it’s better



  • @calvinhobbesliker:

    @Blitchga:

    @calvinhobbesliker:

    @Gharen:

    So basically no one plays the out of the box setup anymore?  Why?  Is the alpha setup just that much better?

    Yes

    second that whole heartedly

    Yes. Just look at the setup and you’ll see why it’s better

    Far to much air on the normal set up.



  • And Japan has one less transport, so it needs to be more careful in planning



  • What is the “alpha” set up, where could I find it?




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