Sealion counter



  • IF I were Japan and Germany took UK on G2 or G3 I might not let America get into the war IF America had an invasion fleet ready to retake the UK.

    In my last game as Japan the UK fell to Sealion G2.  America has purchased Pacific heavy US1 so their small Atlantic navy was still at New York when UK fell.  Guess they were scared of me lol.  Thus Japan felt no pressure not to attack the DEI and all that on J2.



  • Warning: these experiences are from AA Europe games, so I’ll leave it up to you to judge if it applies here or not.

    I did several testgames to see if a) Operation Sea Lion can be stopped by the UK and b) what effect it has on the overall situation in Europe:

    • If Germany really invests in a large G3 Operation Sea Lion, it’s almost impossible to stop for the UK. While trying to stop the inevitable and pouring all available resources into defending London, the UK will also be losing on the other fronts … which will make Italy very happy.

    • If committed to a large G3 Operation Sea Lion, the German army can not be in a good position in G4 to stop the initial SU4 attacks in the East. If all/most of the forces used in Operation Sea Lion are shipped back to the East, the Germans and Soviets will have roughly equal armies … with the advantage going to the attacker because they can either concentrate attacks against a spread out defender or pick off undefended areas if the defender concentrates.

    • The UK can choose to basically ignore Operation Sea Lion and concentrate on the Mediterranean and Africa. Building just enough in the UK to force Germany to go for a large transport fleet, they simply evacuate the Royal Airforce and go after Italy. With London in German hands, the UK still managed to lock down Italy by destroying their entire fleet and concentrating enough units in Africa to prevent Italy from holding Cairo.

    • The US will have their first amphibious assault fleet ready at Gibraltar in US4. This forces an already very weak Italy to defend their home territories and forces Germany to use their large bonus from G3 to defend the UK, defend Western Europe, defend Northern Europe and build an army to defeat the Soviet Union … and they should be helping Italy in the Mediterranean too. (Playing Germany, I also wanted to increase my factory capacity and expand the fleet so I could operate in the Baltic and delay the US at the same time … but 90ish IPC just not enough for all that.)

    8-)



  • @Latro

    I couldn’t agree more with your strategy. I attempted to suggest the same thing a few days ago but the people on this forum weren’t having it. Hopefully your explanation will make them take it seriously.

    The only differences in Global are going to be that if the Allies really focus on the European theater, they can be even more effective. The US makes an additional 17, Russia makes an additional 9, and Britain has forces in the Pacific theater that they can divert to the defense of Egypt. Of course, Japan would be happy if they did, but they should be waiting until J3 or J4 to attack anyways for a Sealion strat.



  • I was playing my first game the other day and this scenario happened…I was able to make UK fall to sealion turn 2.  I ended with only 3 tac bombers left and a tank in UK (bomber fell to AA strike).  The people playing with me quit immediately saying that the game was over.  Is it indeed over.

    Secondly, during this game I invested much of my air force to destroying UK’s navy so the France did not fall to Germany, it was extremely weak and fell to Italy.  Is this a bad scenario?

    Is this game truly over?  I left it set up and may go on my own and play it out to see what happens.



  • No Oly, it’s not over at all.  Your friends are probably used to all the previous versions of A&A where the game pretty much was over if Germany took London, however this is no longer the case with the 1940 version.

    As you can see from the many posts above, the USA can still liberate the UK (especially with the Alpha 2 rules that allow the USA to declare war on Germany after a successful Sea Lion) and if the Germans focused on the British with their first couple turns, the Russians have more time to prepare and, in your case, the Italians had to take out France meaning they weren’t attacking Africa.  In all, a successful Sea Lion is not a sure win for either side, it’s just one of a few first steps Germany can take.



  • I’ve only played a few A&A Global games but SeaLion doesn’t seem that hard to stop to me. Build 4 Art, 4 Inf on Turn 1(28 IPC’s). That way if Germany doesn’t SeaLion then you have a perfect mix of Inf to Art later in the game. Turn 2, IF Germany builds 10 Trans w/their 70 IPC’s, then you max out 10 Inf in UK w/your 33 IPC’s, build 1 Inf in Saf. Then, you will have 18 Inf, 4 Art, plus move all your aircraft to the UK, which is 6 FTR’s, 1 Tac, plus AA, against all Germany can bring to attack is a VERY even battle. Not saying Germany can’t win w/good dicing. However, if he loses that spells doom for Germany. In my honest opinion, that is basing the game on good dicing. I believe any German player that see’s that, will focus on Russia, rather than risk the game on dice rolls. And, you may even be able to save a few FTR’s for your navy down in SZ92.



  • Then you do this move w/the US, which in my opinion is the best US Turn 1 move. It allows the US to be at SZ91 on Turn 2 or back in Hawaii on Turn 2. Either way you’re positioned go against Germany if they SeaLion and win or against Japan if Germany doesn’t SeaLion.

    USA Turn 1

    Builds:

    4 Trans, 1 Inf, 1 Arm, 1 NB

    Non Coms:

    1 Inf, 1 Art from Eus to Trans in SZ101, move to SZ64, drop off in Smx
    1 CC in SZ101 to SZ64
    1 Mech, 1 Arm from Cus to Smx
    2 Inf, 1 Art from Wus to Cus
    2 Inf from Haw to Trans in SZ26, move to SZ64, drop off in Smx
    1CC, 1DD, 1SS from SZ26 to SZ64
    1BB, 1CC, 1DD, 1AC, 1 Trans from SZ10 to SZ64
    1 FTR, 1Tac from SZ10 to Eus
    1 FTR from Wus to Eus
    2 FTR from Haw to SZ64
    1 FTR from Phi to Gua
    1 DD, 1SS from SZ35 to SZ54
    1 SBR from Cus to Wus

    Build:

    4 Trans in SZ101
    1 Inf, 1 Arm in Cus
    1 NB in Pan



  • Btw, my friend Hobo Smasher came up w/this move.



  • I think the idea is to threaten SeaLion so the UK builds 4 Inf, 4 Art on Turn 1. And, if Germany doesn’t builds Trans on Turn 2, the UK will still have to build a few ground units in the UK to stop SeaLion, if Germany builds a few more Trans on Turn 2. The idea is to keep UK stalled, cover SZ’s 109 and 110 w/Germany navy and aircraft, so the UK can’t build any navy or aircraft off the coast of the UK, then focus on Russia. W/Japan, in my opinion, you go after China and maybe Russia but don’t attack the UK/Anzac/US until at least Turn 3 or 4. It’s best to keep the US out of the fight as long as possible. Germany and Japan should try and do the old squeeze play on Russia. If the UK does it’s builds and moves correctly, SeaLion is difficult and comes down to dicing, Then w/the US move I posted, you go after Germany and Italy full force w/the US, UK and Russia. EVEN, if Germany wins SeaLion it spells doom for them most of the time, in my opinion.



  • I played 1 more round by myself before I saw the reply that it was not over.  I did notice I could not dump units into UK’s defense if I wanted to push the attack against russia.  Although italy is very strong now with IPCs, UK did bunker all its units up into Egypt so Italy owns everything up to alexandria they have very little of Africa taken.  I got America ready to liberate UK.  Germany attacked Russia at the beginning of turn 3 and started its move but lost a key battle in the north (I can’t remember the name of the country and the game is at a diff location than my home).  Japan is doing decent but I think it may not be enough to cause much of a threat once USA enters with fray.



  • @Warpiglet:

    I know this is controversial…however, SeaLion is a go if you want it to be.  UK cannot truly stop it.

    With that said, I believe (and it is counterintuitive to my 20+ years of AA playing) that taking London does not win the game.  In addition, it may actually HURT Germany.  If you build the fleet, America is still coming.  What is more, Russia will be a powerhouse.  Conscription is coming.  And if they start encroaching on Germany, the IPCs will be hard to overcome.

    Also, consider this.  Can Germany both defend UK and itself against a rich USA as well as well armed Russia.  Only temporarily.  And the price may be too high in the end…

    I agree with Warpiglet (nice name btw).  The counter to Sea Lion is Russia build Mech Inf. + a tank or two for 3 turns (111 IPCs of production).  Lets see how a de-garrisoned Poland looks with twenty or so armoured units attacking it.  Basically Germany can only conduct Sea-Lion on G3.  Russia will obliterate them on R4.   Game over.


  • Customizer

    Russia will obliterate them on R4.  Game over.

    Umm … no.



  • Speaking of ending a game too early, I had a game recently when after London fell my opponent would ask me at the end of each Jap turn (he was axis) if I wanted to surrender.  My response was always lets play it out and see.  After 12 more rounds he surrendered when his offensive couldn’t pierce the Russians defenses and US recaptured Africa from Italy.  Those extra IPCS meant US could do whatever they wanted.



  • @jim010:

    Russia will obliterate them on R4.   Game over.

    Umm … no.

    There is no real way for Germany to tae the U.k. on G2.  They won’t have enough transports, 5 max.  The U.K. can turtle (and should until there is no Sea-Lion) by bringing Canadian units over and landing as many of their plans as possible in London.

    Russia has to go on the offensive (IMO) and build fast moving units.  Digging in (with Inf.) allows the Germans time to use the cash captured from the Bristish should sea-lion succeed.  By build fast moving mobile units the Germans cannot leave their boarders undefended.  The U.S.A. should also be ready to attack Germany first.  IMO Calcutts, China and ANZAC can do very well with only limmited support from the U.S.A…

    I think though, the “threat” of Sea-Lion is much more potent than the actual attack itself.  Germany can get their ass-whooped by Russia if it goes all into sea-lion and the U.K. digs in.  I have even seen in one Game where Russia Conquered Germany on R4 (a bit of bad german planning) but typically it’s R5.


  • Customizer

    Russia cannot attack until turn 4.  It is not possible to take Berlin on turn 4 without a transport.  And with $90 to spend and redeploying planes and units (and there’s lots left in Europe), did your opponent give you Berlin?  I have turn 3 and turn 4 to redeploy wherever I need to - likley Poland.

    A successful G3 Sealion based on my Sealion 1.0 posted back in October (which I have posted again in a recent thread with map attached)

    http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=23558.15

    I will have enough in Poland that you will not be able to go on the offensive.  On the order of 35 ground units, plus whatever London was taken with, AND I just placed $90 - 10 tanks in Germany and 10 inf in West Germany to be brought up to Baltic states on turn 5 (or Leningrad if you left it undefended against an amphibious landing of 24 ground units.  It is not mathematically possible for you to match that.  On turn 4 I have just as many ground units as you (more if you bought expensive units) and ALL my units can be in Baltic states turn 5, while 18 of your inf are still in Siberia.

    It is most definitley NOT game over for the Axis.  In all games where it came off well, UK was not defended properly, Italy didn’t lose its TTs, and Japan went unchecked.

    I do maintain that Sealion can be stopped as I outlined in the link.



  • I’ve seen Sea lion work and not work,  it depends on a lot of things like your opening round rolls.
      I’ve also seen where it works,  and Barbarossa works too in the same game
      Opening round rolls made a big difference in the second game yesterday, The Axis got hurt early and couldn’t recover.
      In every game It’s important for Germany to eliminate the royal Navy. Stay strong with their Navy and air force to thwart off any threat of an Allied invasion, and hurt Russia and push on to their capital and get as much money as possible


Log in to reply
 

20th Anniversary Give Away

In January 2000 this site came to life and now we're celebrating our 20th Anniversary with a prize giveaway of 30+ prizes. See this link for the list of prizes and winners.
Axis & Allies Boardgaming Custom Painted Miniatures
Dean's Army Guys
T-shirts, Hats, and More

Suggested Topics

  • 14
  • 7
  • 9
  • 18
  • 15
  • 28
  • 21
  • 10
I Will Never Grow Up Games
Axis & Allies Boardgaming Custom Painted Miniatures
Dean's Army Guys

88
Online

14.9k
Users

35.7k
Topics

1.5m
Posts