Sealion counter



  • I’ve heard many say that Sealion has been debunked. Can anyone tell me how to counter the following Sealion strat?
    G1: Build a Carrier and other ships, possbly transports
    G2: Invade UK with 2 inf and C/BB bombard to kill some defending inf to make G3 attack easier. Build 9 Transports
    G3: Invade UK with 10-12 Transprts, 20-24 troops, and 5-7 planes



  • I have only heard this just after the Global game came out now I think its a good strat and the way to counter it is through the dice gods



  • I know this is controversial…however, SeaLion is a go if you want it to be.  UK cannot truly stop it.

    With that said, I believe (and it is counterintuitive to my 20+ years of AA playing) that taking London does not win the game.  In addition, it may actually HURT Germany.  If you build the fleet, America is still coming.  What is more, Russia will be a powerhouse.  Conscription is coming.  And if they start encroaching on Germany, the IPCs will be hard to overcome.

    Also, consider this.  Can Germany both defend UK and itself against a rich USA as well as well armed Russia.  Only temporarily.  And the price may be too high in the end…



  • @Warpiglet:

    I know this is controversial…however, SeaLion is a go if you want it to be.  UK cannot truly stop it.

    With that said, I believe (and it is counterintuitive to my 20+ years of AA playing) that taking London does not win the game.  In addition, it may actually HURT Germany.  If you build the fleet, America is still coming.  What is more, Russia will be a powerhouse.  Conscription is coming.  And if they start encroaching on Germany, the IPCs will be hard to overcome.

    Also, consider this.  Can Germany both defend UK and itself against a rich USA as well as well armed Russia.  Only temporarily.  And the price may be too high in the end…

    This works in Europe, still in question for Global.

    http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=20136.195

    http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=20303.570



  • I think a good counter would be on UK1 buying 6inf and a fighter, and bring the UK carrier group up to the home island, somewhere around the Irish sea. Then UK2 using your planes and the destroyer to strike out at the German surface fleets, while buying another 10 infantry.

    Granted you’ll loose a good chunk of your planes, but if you can kill the German cruiser, BB and AC and destroy their transport fleet, your in the clear. ITs a risky gambit, i’ll admit, but the alternitive is to sit and watch as the Germans prepare to kill you.



  • @Clyde85:

    I think a good counter would be on UK1 buying 6inf and a fighter, and bring the UK carrier group up to the home island, somewhere around the Irish sea. Then UK2 using your planes and the destroyer to strike out at the German surface fleets, while buying another 10 infantry.

    Granted you’ll loose a good chunk of your planes, but if you can kill the German cruiser, BB and AC and destroy their transport fleet, your in the clear. ITs a risky gambit, i’ll admit, but the alternitive is to sit and watch as the Germans prepare to kill you.

    Can’t Germany attack the carrier group with its fleet in Z112 and planes in WGer?



  • Sea Lion is difficult to counter.  England has to be with it from the start and Russia has to be able to conduct offensive action against Germany by Round 4 even if not attacked.  Then again Russia can come to India’s aid or back up them 18 INF with some useful offensive units also.

    If America sees the transport fleet building they probably go Europe first.  Japan will turtle by just picking on China and or Siberia until Round 4 to “help” Germany and Italy hold England by keeping Charles Lindbergh and America neutral.

    Lets go all SeaLion by both sides.  When I’m England it is my FEAR since England needs two turns to prepare.

    Plus England builds 10 inf turn 1 and brings over folks from Canada and the plane from the med carrier.  Turn 2 England builds another 8 to ten infantry.  This puts about 22 at 2 =44 + 4 @ 4 = 16 for 60 there turn 3.

    What’s Germany start with….30 bucks…builds a carrier, sub, and transport turn 1 in NW of W Germanty then 9 transports (63 IPC) and a couple infantry turn 2.

    Gives you 22 units to land…14 Inf @1 = 12, 5 tanks @ 3 = 15, 3 art@2 = 6 +3 for inf = 9…14+15+9=38 plus perhaps 5 planes that have survived killing the Royal Navy and an off shore shot…about 53 plus that off shore shot?  Germany has the luxury of killing its low scoring infantry first.

    Germany is probably better off attacking G3 than building 4 more transports and 8 more attacking infantry @1 for one landing on G4.  England even reduced to 22 IPC if things go TERRIBLY for them in Africa will get 7 more @ 2.

    If England does anything else besides defend the island on UK1 Sea Lion probably succeeds.  By building that carrier and sinking the northern part of the Royal Navy Germany helps Italy in Africa something fierce by keeping the UK from building in South Africa at the very least.

    Do I have the math right?  I’m watching Jay Leno doing this from memory lol



  • UK starts with 29 and thus can’t build 10 inf on turn 1



  • I knew my math work wasn’t 100%!

    What do they start with… 1 Brit infantry, 1 French…3 Fighters…get 1 inf from Canada, 1 Armor?  That’s a tactical bomber on the carrier.  Swordfish probably lol…



  • @MarkVIIIMarc:

    I knew my math work wasn’t 100%!

    What do they start with… 1 Brit infantry, 1 French…3 Fighters…get 1 inf from Canada, 1 Armor?  That’s a tactical bomber on the carrier.  Swordfish probably lol…

    Yeah. The problem is that Germany builds a carrier, UK retreats its tac and doesn’t do Taranto. Now Germany calls off Sealion and Italian fleet has survived and will continue to survive for quite a while



  • Agreed. Just threatening sealion does great things for the axis
    the margin of error for england is small on the first three turns also.

    Great thing is even if you abort and only build up to three transports they are useful for retaking norway and taking lenningrad.



  • @calvinhobbesliker:

    Can’t Germany attack the carrier group with its fleet in Z112 and planes in WGer?

    I dont think so, not if they want to kill off the other fleets around the British Home Isles.

    I think striking out turn 1 with your fighter, tatical bomber and destroyer  is your best bet. Granted, this is based on the assumption that the German surface fleet is in sz 112, and the battleship has taken a hit destroying the 2 cruisers their on G1. You would be attacking with 3@3 1@4 and 1@2, against 1@3 1@4 1@2(i think?) and then it depends what lands on the carrier, but fiugre its 1@3 and 1@4 (a ftr and Tac combo). Its a risky gambit, of that there is no doubt, and if the dice gods cruse you, then its bye bye London. Granted, the Germans could build their invasion fleet in the baltic, and make this a moot point all together.



  • @Clyde85:

    @calvinhobbesliker:

    Can’t Germany attack the carrier group with its fleet in Z112 and planes in WGer?

    I dont think so, not if they want to kill off the other fleets around the British Home Isles.

    I think striking out turn 1 with your fighter, tatical bomber and destroyer  is your best bet. Granted, this is based on the assumption that the German surface fleet is in sz 112, and the battleship has taken a hit destroying the 2 cruisers their on G1. You would be attacking with 3@3 1@4 and 1@2, against 1@3 1@4 1@2(i think?) and then it depends what lands on the carrier, but fiugre its 1@3 and 1@4 (a ftr and Tac combo). Its a risky gambit, of that there is no doubt, and if the dice gods cruse you, then its bye bye London. Granted, the Germans could build their invasion fleet in the baltic, and make this a moot point all together.

    What other fleets? On G2, the Carrier group will be the only one


  • '10

    @Warpiglet:

    With that said, I believe (and it is counterintuitive to my 20+ years of AA playing) that taking London does not win the game.  In addition, it may actually HURT Germany.

    I tend to agree with this.  Only played three games of Global, though.



  • Germany putting too much IPCs in the water spells doom against Russia…  With landing 20+ troops in England round 3, how many troops do you even have left on continental Europe?


  • Customizer

    how many troops do you even have left on continental Europe?

    With the $90 you’re about to spend with Germany?  And the 10 TTs to take them where you feel like?  Alot.

    I haven’t played this in a linked game yet, though.



  • Remember also, again I feel like a broken record, to really pull of Sea Lion, you don’t want to provoke the US.  That means no J1 attack on anybody but China, major setback for Japan, and major threatening British fleet off of India.  Is it worth it??

    Carrier buy on Germany 1 is a great move though, probably going to become a gimme move.



  • I’ve played three games as Germany. In two of them, I took Britain on turn three, but in one I was able to pull off a turn 2 Sealion. That was also the only of the three games that I won. The reason it worked is that Britain decided to write off the home island and flew the three fighters out of there, giving me a favorable battle with 4 land units and all my air.

    I don’t think writing off Britain was a bad idea, I just think he should have gone about it differently. I think Britain should do Taranto, build 9 inf and keep the fighters, forcing me to build 9 transports turn 2. Then, on their turn 2, they should fly out the fighters and pump all of their money into the South Africa and Canada factories. This way they turn the tables on Germany, making them the ones reacting to a false threat, in this case the threat of a failed Sealion. The extra transports are now as useless as the extra 10 British units would have been. Sure, Germany gets to keep more land units, but I feel its more valuable to hold back Italy’s ipc production than to kill German units. If the Indians also send some fleet, some troops and some air, I’ve found that Italy can’t get past Egypt in any reasonable amount of time, and if they can’t do that, the Axis as a whole is weak.



  • @BJCard:

    Germany putting too much IPCs in the water spells doom against Russia…  With landing 20+ troops in England round 3, how many troops do you even have left on continental Europe?

    Heh, you really need to try out Sealion.  Through the magic of Naval Bases, those transports can come really handy in the Baltic vs. Russia and can even threaten Africa/Gibraltar/America out in the Atlantic.  Building more fleet to distract America is a bitch though, tough to balance out with Russian counteroffensives.



  • @larrymarx:

    I’ve played three games as Germany. In two of them, I took Britain on turn three, but in one I was able to pull off a turn 2 Sealion. That was also the only of the three games that I won. The reason it worked is that Britain decided to write off the home island and flew the three fighters out of there, giving me a favorable battle with 4 land units and all my air.

    I don’t think writing off Britain was a bad idea, I just think he should have gone about it differently. I think Britain should do Taranto, build 9 inf and keep the fighters, forcing me to build 9 transports turn 2. Then, on their turn 2, they should fly out the fighters and pump all of their money into the South Africa and Canada factories. This way they turn the tables on Germany, making them the ones reacting to a false threat, in this case the threat of a failed Sealion. The extra transports are now as useless as the extra 10 British units would have been. Sure, Germany gets to keep more land units, but I feel its more valuable to hold back Italy’s ipc production than to kill German units. If the Indians also send some fleet, some troops and some air, I’ve found that Italy can’t get past Egypt in any reasonable amount of time, and if they can’t do that, the Axis as a whole is weak.

    Ugh. Abandoning Britain is usually a bad idea.  Those “useless” transports will probably make you regret your statement after Germany takes out Leningrad on Turn 5.  That’s a whole 20 units that can be mobile in 9 different territories in the Baltic, all in one move.  Per turn.


  • Customizer

    I agree w/ Sgtblitz.

    TTs = mobility.



  • Again folks,
    I wanna ask if anybody has any comments on how Sealion strategy (waiting to attack until J3) affects things for Japan in the Pacific???



  • @larrymarx:

    The extra transports are now as useless as the extra 10 British units would have been.

    @SgtBlitz:

    Those “useless” transports will probably make you regret your statement after Germany takes out Leningrad on Turn 5.  That’s a whole 20 units that can be mobile in 9 different territories in the Baltic, all in one move.  Per turn.

    I feel you’re missing the point. Of course the transports aren’t useless, Germany just wouldn’t have built them unless forced into that course of action by Britain defending itself. Germany would rather have built fewer transports and more tanks. Also, the transports aren’t going to die from the Sealion attack, so they’ll exist to take Leningrad on turn 5 no matter what Britain does. All Britain can do is give itself a small chance of repelling Sealion (I haven’t seen it happen), and they can kill a bunch of German infantry and maybe some artillery that Germany is planning on replacing with reinforcements anyways. So the choice is between setting Germany back a half a turn of production or keeping Italy from ever getting to a decent level of production. Because Russia is much tougher to conquer in this version of the game, I think it’s safe to let the Germans keep all that infantry. Africa needs more Allied presence in the beginning of the game to put up a decent defense.



  • ALRIGHT,  One more time  :?

    How does this sealion strategy that you are all so in love with affect your situation in the east???  What happens with Japan if you wait till turn 3 to attack everybody???

    This is about Axis and Allies GLOBAL isn’t it???



  • @spectre_04:

    ALRIGHT,  One more time  :?

    How does this sealion strategy that you are all so in love with affect your situation in the east???  What happens with Japan if you wait till turn 3 to attack everybody???

    This is about Axis and Allies GLOBAL isn’t it???

    i did the sea lion strategy last (current game). it didn’t change much from my japan perspective, i have tried to wait til j4 to attack everyone except china and russia to keep the US out until i’m ready for them on all fronts. it should be noted that i didn’t buy extra tt’s on G2, just 2 tt’s and 1 carrier on G1. just enough to force the UK to buy inf and keep italy’s fleet safe on round 1. you can check my post regarding japan here http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=20483.0


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