Why don't Canadians goose step to the Yanky Doodle tune?



  • This stuff NEVER gets air time on US media. Below is a link to story about the US stiffing Canadians who are selling grain to the Americans. A complaint from 1 state, N. Dakota I believe caused a US tarriff to be levied against Canada.

    The U.S. government began a formal investigation into Canadian wheat shipments last fall after the North Dakota Wheat Commission petitioned the Commerce Department and the International Trade Commission to look into the Canadian Wheat Board.

    The Winnipeg-based wheat board, which has a monopoly on selling western Canadian wheat and barley to the rest of the world, has been investigated by the U.S. nine previous times. Each time, the investigation has failed to prove unfair trade practices by the Crown corporation.

    So what, best 1 out of 10 now since Canada is 9-0?

    The article also mentions how the latest anal reaming over lumber has cost a few thousands of job losses, since we are 1/10 the population of the US it’s a big screwing.

    So, you bitch slap us with unfair tariffs then wonder why we don’t beat your war drum along side some good ole boys? Hey, just play fair, competition is good but don’t get all pissy when you lose. Americans are the best at many things, more than anybody else, but y’all ain’t the best at everything. You’re like the big brother that just hates to lose. We love ya all the same but sometimes we just wanna scream!

    BB

    http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2003/03/04/36137-cp.html

    ps, incidently www.canoe.ca and http://www.canada.com/national/ are two good windows into the Canadian world.

    ps, my bad, had the wrong link in there folks….



  • There is one thing the US is not protectionist about, energy. We Canadian’s are nice quiet folk for the most part (just don’t get on the ice and piss of a Canuck holding a prime piece of lumber in his hands). So, since we are the #1 exporter of Oil/Gas to the US and not any Arab country like I am sure every Yank thinks…… The US should play nice over softwood and wheat. Man, must be really tough to push a Ford Expedition from gast station to gas station…

    BB



  • @BigBlocky:

    Americans are the best at many things, more than anybody else, but y’all ain’t the best at everything. You’re like the big brother that just hates to lose.

    By the way, America is no longer the best at very many things. Just about the only thing that the US manages to do better than elsewhere any more is aerospace design and the pharmesudical industry. Otherwise, heavy industry has shifted to the third world, lumber and wheat comes from Canada (and we will soon see Eastern Europe producing bumper crops too), and high technology increasingly comes from Japan or Europe. Although the American economy may be massive it is simply becuase it is the largest trading partner for most of the world, not becuase it has a huge amount of exports. Sort of like Britian in the 19th century.



  • @bossk:

    @BigBlocky:

    Americans are the best at many things, more than anybody else, but y’all ain’t the best at everything. You’re like the big brother that just hates to lose.

    By the way, America is no longer the best at very many things. Just about the only thing that the US manages to do better than elsewhere any more is aerospace design and the pharmesudical industry. Otherwise, heavy industry has shifted to the third world, lumber and wheat comes from Canada (and we will soon see Eastern Europe producing bumper crops too), and high technology increasingly comes from Japan or Europe. Although the American economy may be massive it is simply becuase it is the largest trading partner for most of the world, not becuase it has a huge amount of exports. Sort of like Britian in the 19th century.

    note that there is some pretty heady stuff in the way of aerospace design coming out of Canada too - even Winnipeg.
    Pharmaceuticals - much development and the corporate hq’s of many of the largest companies are based in Switzerland, Germany, England, Sweden, and other European nations. Eli Lilly, BMS, and maybe Pfizer are the only “top 20” i know based in the US.



  • America is number 1 in the software and microchip industry. Take a look at the top IT companies and most are US.

    Heavy industry does not play to the strengths of an educated work force. Canada has more lumber and wheat to export because it has 1/10th the population with more land. Canada really can’t take credit for natural resources unless we are more productive at ‘producing it’.

    The US economy is not the largest because it is the biggest consumer of others exports, Cuba has a huge % of its economy based on imports and it does not have a big econmy. It is the biggest consumer of others exports because of it’s economic size, imports are a side effect of a large economy rather than a causal relationship. However, only 11% of the US economic activity is related to exports, most of the US economy is internal to the US.

    Pound for pound the US is as good as country in the world, it just has more pounds so to speak….

    Of course some smaller countries will excell in certain niches but for now, overall, the US is dominant.

    BB



  • We definately rely on exports too much, its part of the reason the dollar is weakening. My Nuclear Energy Plan (a post 6-7 pages back) would help jumpstart US exporting without having to raise tariffs.

    Top Software and Chip manufacture, I’d say we’re pretty well tied with Japan, at least in the Software department. I’ve heard of some pretty amazing AI projects in work in Japan.

    Heavy industry does not play to the strengths of an educated work force. Canada has more lumber and wheat to export because it has 1/10th the population with more land. Canada really can’t take credit for natural resources unless we are more productive at ‘producing it’.

    Problem is, you might say we are too educated, if thats possible. Our economy is begining to become focused a bit much on services and not on goods. Again, the problem foreign labor is so much cheaper than it is here. Robotics may be able to turn the tide, but not for awhile.



  • Nuclear energy is not-cost effective when the full life cycle of the radio-active material is accounted for. The world is safer with less plutonium then more.

    AI in Japan…… that story has been going on since 1980 when I started get paid for the software I wrote. I doubt Japan has a software company in the top 10 of software companies. Microsoft, Oracle and computer associates are pret near #1,2 and 3 (CA not sure about) and all are US.

    If a country exports more it’s dollar goes up not down. So says Economics 101. I’m sure you meant rely on imports too much. 🙂

    Japan has not big microprocessor companies. The top two are Intel and AMD both US. They do have lots of memory making capacity but more and more of Japans chip production is going to Taiwan. I don’t mean to be stereotypical but the Japanese lack a certain innovative ability. That is not to say they are not innovative. They do however excel in the process known as ‘step-wise’ refinement and can take new ideas and use them for old purposes. The US invented the vaccuum tube, the transister, the microchip and laser. A Canadian invented the first wireless transmission. So Japan didn’t invent the parts of the transistor radio but they were making radios and refined it. The walkman didn’t rely on any revolutionary technolgy but sony made a killing on it when it first came out. Memory chip production relies on stepwise refinement, but it’s also a commodity. A top of the line memory module will never compete in profit margin with a top of the line microprocessor.

    As for being too educated, that is a very good point. They say the service/financial/law sector is what is creating jobs. It’s hard to say what paper pushers really make. At least you can see what a steel-worker does, but it is hard to see what an army of lawyers does… OK, bad example, an army of statisticians does. I think you’re right on the money vis-a-vis robotics Yanny. I think the big reason western countries are losing out to less skilled workforces in foreign countries is that stell production pollutes more then selling life-insurance… If the rules on the environment were level in all countries I suspect and farm subsidies were removed that third world countries were most of the population lives on farms might just be better at producing food then steel. And perhaps a rich western country could afford all the high-tech polluction control equipment to manufacture stuff with lower ecological consequences.

    Sad thing is we want to purchase our life insurance from a slick looking WASP and we look the other way when the wet-backs of the third world live and work in poor conditions.

    BB



  • If a country exports more it’s dollar goes up not down. So says Economics 101. I’m sure you meant rely on imports too much. icon_smile.gif

    Ment to say we rely too much on other’s exports… ok it’s just really early 🙂

    I think our country is begining the Second Industrial Revolution (or third, depending on how you look at History). As was seen during the 1840-1870s, labor is becoming less and less skilled. Competition is causing companies to lower prices, to the point where to make a profit companies must go outside the country.

    I really wish the Nation could organize a massive boycott of goods produced in poor working conditions, like we see on College campuses a lot today. I believe Nike made reforms during the 90s because of a boycott.



  • A boycott of products from poor countries… You know how terrible that sounds? I know what ya mean. I think perhaps if we could just create a minimum ecololgical standard they must meant to have ‘most favoured trading’ status. If they dump toxins in the water then there is a 20% (more or less as required to remove the economic advantage pollution gives) tarriff on all their goods.

    I also agree with you on the dawn of a new industrial revolution.

    BB



  • @BigBlocky:

    However, only 11% of the US economic activity is related to exports, most of the US economy is internal to the US.

    True. This is one thing that most USies probably don’t notice: THey are highly dependant on the world, on the money “we” (as the rest on the world) push into them as credits or investments, which they then again use to buy our stuff. The US has a trade deficit of more than 400 billion US$.
    Even though they are the biggest and the worlds biggest exporting nation (not per capita though), this is something that is usually ignored by the common US citizens.

    @BigBlocky:

    Nuclear energy is not-cost effective when the full life cycle of the radio-active material is accounted for. The world is safer with less plutonium then more.

    True again. Do you have by chance a calculation where the follow-up costs of each energy types are considered? It would be nice to see how fossile, nuclear and regenerative fuels compare.

    As for being too educated, that is a very good point. They say the service/financial/law sector is what is creating jobs. It’s hard to say what paper pushers really make. At least you can see what a steel-worker does, but it is hard to see what an army of lawyers does… OK, bad example, an army of statisticians does.

    AFAIK 75% of the US jobs are in the service sector. Ok, some do create value (although i doubt most lawyers do :)), but many of those jobs are for working poor…. or how much value do you add to a coffee by filling it into to to-go-cups? Not too much i fear.

    If the rules on the environment were level in all countries I suspect and farm subsidies were removed that third world countries were most of the population lives on farms might just be better at producing food then steel. And perhaps a rich western country could afford all the high-tech polluction control equipment to manufacture stuff with lower ecological consequences.

    :)…… i fear to get such a thing going you need multilateral talks, or the one first and third world country that ignores these proposals will make the most profit.



  • The Europeans early on recognized the cost of nuclear and fossil fuels. They understand they can’t just get more land. We in N. America never think about running out of room. Nuke waste, no problem, we have a few parcels of land 600KM by 600KM we can irradiate and never again use…. N. America doesn’t take into consideration the ecological cost of fuels so naturally fossil fuels rank the ‘cheapest’.

    I’ve heard that nuclear creats no CO2 output, true if the maritans beamed down refined uranium. But since you have to mine tonnes and tonnes of rock with diesel powered equipment, truck it around and refine it… Lots of CO2 is created to get the uranium in a form that can be used.

    F_alk, agreed on the multilateral talks on trade. This is were a strong UN would come in Handy. Canada has diddly influence here, it’s the big boys the US and the EU that dance and we must avoid getting stepped on. I hate to say it but Canada has alot in common with third world countries in that respect. Maybe Canada should join the EU? snickers

    BB



  • You would be most welcome in the EU… as you said, lots of space were we could dump our nuclear waste :)… And whenever then French and British disagree… well, i guess you know best how to work around such things ;).



  • French and English disagreeing is a part of life in Canada chuckles. It’s odd how some French complain all the time yet our Prime Minister has been either French AND from Quebec or from Quebec and French speaking for 32 of the last 33 years and 50% of the time prior to that.

    In any event, Canada does have a plan for putting nuke waste in the Canadian shield (A hunk of rock 3 billion years old that forms most of Canada’s North). I’d rather put up lots of wind mills but….

    Thanks for the invite to the EU, I’ll think about it once I’m running the show over here!

    BB



  • I’m against tariffs against free trade (as long as those countries do the same), so I can admit that’s one beef I have with Dubya. 🙂

    But if you notice, America is not really a “industrialist” nation. America’s strength is in white-collar jobs (communications, services, information, ect). People have to stop thinking that wealth can only be measured in “products”… However, I have a hard time agreeing with Technology belonging to Japan or Europe - especially around where I live (Silicon Valley, Irvine, ect). Japan does have high technology, but when you start comparing computers, America does have the advantage (ex. compare a home PC in Japan with one in US). Anyways I can agree that the Japanese don’t really invent anything, but more like, they perfect them (look at the Japanese auto industry)



  • @TG:

    I’m against tariffs against free trade (as long as those countries do the same), so I can admit that’s one beef I have with Dubya. 🙂

    Like steel tariffs 🙂 cough



  • Yeah, dump tarriffs.
    If an industry needs tarriffs to survive it needs to be restructured.

    I just read that Canada’s Governor General(who’s that as all I here about is the PM and minor American-insulting ministers? 🙂 ) Selects the Senat(or Senate) in Canada. I would think that this may help the PM get a lot of his policies passed into law.
    Did I also read recently that the PM will withdraw a bill if it looks like it would not pass as this would trigger a no confidence call for election of a new PM?



  • The Governer-General is the Queens representative. There is a great deal of pomp and circimstance (great for the tourists I suppose) and linkages to the Queen. In theory the position holds power but the position is really a formality. It’s too much a bother, to change anything in the Constitution requires all the provinces to agree and usually the problem getting the French in Quebec to agree to any changes. (the Quebec government is currently a seperatist government just waiting for the right conditions to hold a referendum to seperate).

    There are 2 bodies, the house of commons and senate. The house comes up with the laws and the Senate passes them while milking the country dry the blood sucking leaches. There are about 300 chuncks of Canada the each elect a ‘Member’ to occupy that ‘seat’. The party with the most seats can form a government, the leader of the party must be elected to a seat and then becomes the ‘Prime Minister’. The party can choose a new PM whenever they want. They come up with the laws and the Senate passes it.

    I’m not sure how many lazy bastards are in the Senate. They are appointed by the current PM. If the ruling party is Liberal for 16 years then the Senate will be Liberal for a long time to come. They are never elected, rarely do anything and often hang out at mexican beaches while getting paid. Again, can’t change anything without changing the consitution and that nearly breaks up Canada any time we try to Change it. Heck we only got it back from England in the 70s and that nearly killed Canada.

    But I ramble. For a bill to be submitted to the Senate it must be voted on. If the PM deems the vote to be important he makes it a ‘Confidence’ vote, if it’s voted NO the government falls and an election must be called. If the ruling party has a majority the bill gets passed on to the Senate. In practive the vote goes along party lines, if a Liberal party member votes against the liberal party the party can kick the member out and run a new candidate as a Liberal against the encumbant (now an independant) in the next election. So, the PM never has to withdraw a bill unless he has a minority. This happened in the 80s, we had a government that lasted like 7 months and lost a confidence vote, it had a minority and had to call an election, they lost seats and lost power.

    Yes, some freaking idiot Canadian Politians do bad mouth the US government. Trust me, the average Canadian citizen is outraged. I urge US citizens to read comments from average citizens on the conduct of these morons.

    Canada has a problem. We have two parties on the right that splits the vote, this has only been the case for about 10 years since the creation of a new western based right wing party. A party can get 20% of the popular vote and only get 3% of the seats. If the vote on the right is split, then the left takes the seat easily. Since there are usually 4 parties contesting each seat it is often taken with only 30% of the vote. The party on the left is the ruling Liberal party, they have won 3 straight elections, the PM is retiring but they will probably be in power for ever.

    They have been in power too long, are arrogant and need to be replaced, they’re killing us….

    BB



  • The governor general IMHO is a useless “head of state”. Appointed by the PM with very little actual power, i have to agree that electing a separate head of state (for example - having a parliament AND a president - such as in Portugal, and other countries) although might slow down democracy a little, would be an improvement to the system.
    The senate has one good thing going for it. Or it used to. A Liberal senate could tie up Conservative bills not because of political entanglements, but rather because the bill was not an appropriate one.



  • Like steel tariffs cough

    I think I know that. :-? 😉



  • I actually listen to a Canadian News MAgazine on NPR occaisonally. A lot less happens in Canada, so U.S. stories are big (I didn’t realize it was Canadian at first because of this) and little stories like this thread are big deals.



  • Tanks, BB! Appreciate the explanation(ramble, too.)


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