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What is the Canada/US/North America to you?



  • This soliloque may ramble a smidgeon.

    Where do we come from?

    We have been isolated from many of the problems of the world for hundreds of years. We have picked and chosen our fights except when brought to our hemisphere(Monroe Doctrine/Cuban missle crisis.) But, a new day seems to be dawning. One in which we must take the fight to our enemies before the world of freedom, democracy and capitalism we live in is destroyed.

    We came to the America’s to escape persecution or start anew … to name just two of the reasons we came. We had conflicts with the native peoples. one conflict was the concept of land ownership. Other problems were the diseases we brought and ‘firewater.’ But we learned from them, too.
    We began as a disgruntled bunch of Brits(Taxation w/o representation/Bunker Hill), but added Spanish influence(FL/CA), and French influence(Louisiana Purchase/French and Indian War(in reality, the French-English War)/France’s ceding rights in the north to the English(what do you call that in Canadian? 😉 ). Then, we gained Mexican influence(Texas War of Independence before joining the US) and Inuit influence(survival in the Arctic). We also benefited from Irish immigration(more Irish here than in Ireland/Irish conflicted with the free blacks for work after the Civil War in the Northeast as well as the West[railroad building]). Benefits from China include cheap labor(the first benefit of most mass migrations to America), industriousness and great take-out. 😉 Free slaves and their descendants gave the world peanut butter, traffic lights, and the ability to separate plasma from blood(the discoverer died because he was not admitted to a ‘whites only’ hospital.) A unit of Japanese Americans were the most decorated during WWII.
    Navajo Indians used their own language and added to it to create a code the Japanese could not break during the same war. Many German scientists, after leaving pre-war Germany, collaborated to help create the atomic bombs they thought would be used against their homeland.

    This is just a piece of America and her history. We are the sons and daughters of Cote d’Ivorie, Greece, Nippon, Lebanon, Mexico, Rome, Sierra Leon, Great Britain, Viet Nam, France, India, Deutschland, Gambia, China, and Central America, just to name a few ‘parents’. We have been a melting pot. We are becoming divided, it seems, by a process I would call ‘multiculturalism.’
    What we will become I do not know.
    I do know that if we fall the world will take a step back in time. Could it be to the Neo-Dark Ages, or maybe the Neo-Muslim 1500’s? The North American continent is the largest consumer/trading partner in the world. Maybe the EU is bigger now, but it is not as spend happy(what some call wasteful) as the US. If we stop, without spreading our type of wealth and benefits the world may suffer a major economic slump.
    Maybe we can learn to be more wise in our spending. Maybe we can share our ecological technology with the poorer nations. Maybe all the world can share cultures, feelings, facts and beliefs.

    It starts with me. What can I do? I must decide for myself. What I can learn and what I can share will benefit me as much as it benefits others.
    –-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Some of the countries we come from have been becoming what they are today for hundreds or thousands of years. France has been evolving since before Charlemagne. Great Britain is a few hudred years younger. Greece and Rome have been developing for over 2000 years. China has a history that goes back well over 4 millenia.
    In some ways they are not pleased that their child has surpassed them. This is not to say that we are greater in our day than they were in theirs. this is not to say that we are a perfewct nation, Far from it. But when the poor, starving and homeless seek a better life … where do most of them desire to go? America … still America. Not all, but I, personally, know of two cultures that have individual sponsors for immigrants. I have even, on a random occurrance here in Cincinnati, met the ‘second generation’ of a sponsored immigrant I met 300 miles and 25 years ago.

    What is America to you(not the USA)? 😎 😢 :evil: :-? :roll: 🙂 😮



  • Xi, you Americans kill me…… The US is NOT north America 🙂 It bugs me that to be American is to be from the United States, to be European is to be from a country in Europe but I’m over it now. As for what Candians call “France’s ceding rights in the north to the English”, we call it “France’s ceding rights in the north to the English”. What the heck did you think we called it? Confederation occured in 1867, the plains of abraham occured long long before that smilee.

    Americans might have been isolated from world events but North Americans were not. Canada did spend twice as many years fighting both world wars as the US did… I’d agree with alot of what you said but you really seem to underestimate the differences between the 2 northern countries in America. I live and grew up within 20 miles of where most of the bloodiest battles of the War of 1812 occured so perhaps I’m a bit more aware of some differences than others. 1812 was the only war the US lost as I recall. I mean Vietnam was only a police action so it doesn’t count…

    I think because we share a bed with an American elephant it as it were… that no matter how well intentioned the elephant is… when it sneezes you worry a great deal more than the elephant does.

    As a small country I feel Canada is much more global in nature and we have a perspetive of the world the US just doesn’t have… albietly a worms eye view of the world but a different view none-the-less. Dispite what some idiots in our government say ‘off mic’, Canadians really like the yanks, we just think ya need to be a bit more thoughtful.

    BB



  • @Xi:

    Where do we come from?

    That is the first difference between me and you. Your headline was:
    “What is the US/North America? To me? To you?”. This “to you to me” you then lead to a “we”. But this “we” doesn’t include me anymore, though the headline could.
    So, i state that difference on behavior when talking on a forum with different nationalites.

    We have picked and chosen our fights except when brought to our hemisphere(Monroe Doctrine/Cuban missle crisis.) But, a new day seems to be dawning. One in which we must take the fight to our enemies before the world of freedom, democracy and capitalism we live in is destroyed.

    The values of freedom, democracy and capitalism are in danger. But not from the outside, but from the inside. The one s who see themselves as the greatest defenders of these values are digging the grave for it. To defend these values, tehy allow to let them go overboard.
    Look at each and every dictator in this world. In their first days, after eaching power, they usually use violence to “restore peace”, they use injustice to “restore order”. Often enough they claim this “unlawfulness” would only be needed for a short time, to keep their people silent until they have killed enough opposing forces until there is noone left to raise a voice.
    What the current US gov’t does is painfully similar to that behavior. It uses its blunt power to bring forward their own agenda. They spy on friends, like any dictator does. They have people registrated just because of their faith and their heritage.

    I for my part cannot allow such a nation to pervert the ideals it claims to defend.

    We had conflicts with the native peoples. one conflict was the concept of land ownership. Other problems were the diseases we brought and ‘firewater.’ But we learned from them, too.

    Still, you have a genocide on your list that you carefully ignore or don’t mention.

    … Many German scientists, after leaving pre-war Germany, collaborated to help create the atomic bombs they thought would be used against their homeland.

    You accepted and accept traitors whenever it fits your cause. But everyone of your population who does not mistake “blind obedience” with “patriotism” is marked as a traitor in your country, which is one of the heaviest burdens to carry for them, making them outcasts of in their own country for the reason of thinking and not accepting everything.
    Another perversion of the value and idea of freedom and liberty.

    I do know that if we fall the world will take a step back in time. Could it be to the Neo-Dark Ages, or maybe the Neo-Muslim 1500’s?

    We are already on that way, and you are leading the rest of the world. To me you are the similar to the rotten, decaying Roman Empire.

    If we stop, without spreading our type of wealth and benefits the world may suffer a major economic slump.

    What you consider benefits is not considered benefits by the rest of the world, still you think so.

    Maybe we can share our ecological technology with the poorer nations.

    Probably you think you are leading in that kind of technology. Probably you don’t see the dangers of applying your model one-to-one onto other countries. Many poorer nations don’t need and can’t “afford” (by the western definition) high end products for example in pharmacy or genetically engineered seeds. But, in the development process of these products, up to now all the benefits the poorer nations had were lost or exploited for a immorally low price.

    It starts with me. What can I do? I must decide for myself. What I can learn and what I can share will benefit me as much as it benefits others.

    Why do you need the additional benefit? Don’t you have enough already? Do you need “more”?
    (This was a bit mean, i know you went on more on a meta-level, not on the pure materialistic one. Please excuse that, but the question i brought up had to be asked).

    In some ways they are not pleased that their child has surpassed them.

    I would not call it “child”. A child usually is thankful to its parents and respects them even when those are in old age. You are more the “little brother”, who suffered from an inferiority complex and now, as he is stronger, lives out his superiority without any limits.

    What is America to you(not the USA)? 😎 😢 :evil: :-? :roll: 🙂 😮

    America is more than the US, but still i learnt in this forum, that US-Americans call themselves Americans, while they call Canadians Canadians, Mexicans Mexicans. The US tends to see itself as center of the world, and tends to expect from others to see them as the center of the world. Someone should tell them that the center of a sphere is never on the surface of it, but i am afraid they would not listen, but insult me in their worst ways (as “unpatriotic” if i was US-American, and as “socialist” as i am not).



  • Interestingly enough, I came back and edited
    the title before reading your posts, BB & Fk.
    I cannnot speak for you, and as my original
    title indicates …
    @Subject:

    … it’s a question I seek answers to.

    Thank you for your thoughts.

    Xi



  • America to me is a great country that for a while had a bad history(Slavery, Forced Indians to leave there homes even though there was plenty of room to go around, Racist laws, Sexism etc.etc.etc.etc.)
    How ever most of those problems happen in the past and we are improving all the time, granted its a very slow pace.

    We have improved ourselves over the years, through civil rights, women being able to vote, getting rid of the Jim crow laws,etc.etc.etc.

    I know alot of Americans hate their own country, I have met quite a few, I’m sure you guys have too. I notice these people tend to be from colleges not all but most. At least from my experiences. To all the people who hate America pick a better country and go there.

    F_alk I think you are being a little unfair there comparing us to the Roman Empire?? Do you the diferennce between the 2?? We can’t move large troops in other countries without there permission, we make deals with other countries to get stuff done. The Roman Empire did what it wanted for the most part although at the end they did make a few deals I believe. Any information on late Roman empire would be appercaited.

    F_alk you stated that “we” doesn’t include you anymore why is that??



  • @waraxis:

    F_alk I think you are being a little unfair there comparing us to the Roman Empire?? Do you the diferennce between the 2?? We can’t move large troops in other countries without there permission, we make deals with other countries to get stuff done. The Roman Empire did what it wanted for the most part although at the end they did make a few deals I believe. Any information on late Roman empire would be appercaited.

    By threatening the UN that their decision could make them “irrelevant” you are blackmailing the UN. Look at this:
    (a)If the security council says “no war” and you go in, then you make the UN irrelevant because apparently the US doesn’t care about the rest of the world anymore.
    (b) If the security council bows under that pressure and allows a war, then they make themselves irrelevant, because they will bow to the major power and the rest of the world will not care about them anymore (as “puppets of the US”).
    The only option that would not make the UN irrelevant is the security council blocking a war, and the US not going to war because of that decision. Do you really think that will happen?

    How can you say my comparison is unfair if you don’t know one of the “comparees”?

    F_alk you stated that “we” doesn’t include you anymore why is that??

    I think that i explained that above. The headline (which is now edited) was asking about “what is North America/ the US to me? to you?”, one of the first lines was “where do we come from”. This “we” implicates that “we” are from North America/ the US. I am not. I could have been asked (“for you, for me”) what i think of N.A., the US, but i am not from N.A./the US, so i don’t feel included by that we.



  • F_alk, about the US going it alone vis-a-vis the UN……

    I’m a great fan of the UN but… It has lately been a disaster… Germany in my opinion has taken herself entirely out of the equation, it is her choice. But just because she doesn’t want to raise a finger to save a drowning person does not mean she has the right to prevent me from risking my life to save the drowning person.

    Germany has gone on record as saying “There is nothing that will cause us to support force”. That again is her right. There is no qualification to that, no conditions at all. By that standard if we showed Germany irrefutable evidence that say Saddam was putting 100,000 people in the gas chambers per month then Germany would say “Well that’s a shame, we sell microwave ovens that seat 20…”.

    Anybody who says “No matter what happens, I won’t do a thing” loses their right to consultation.

    If the UN is hell bent on being useless as it was in Bosnia at Srebrencia (sp?) when it promised safe haven for the muslims there but stood aside when the serb militia butchered thousands and thousands of civilians. As useless as it was in Rwanda when it allowed 800, 000 tutsis to die at hutu hands. The UN was warned by the Canadian commander in charge of the operation on numerous times and not only stood by but in fact order troops not to fight back. I number of Dutch UN soldiers were subsequently slaughtered, the UN ordered a pull out against the recommendations of the local commander and let genocide occur on a scale we had thought was left to the history books.

    No, I’m sorry. The US has shown enough evidence. Even if there were no weapons of mass destruction there is no argument that I have heard that convinces me it’s better to let this mass murderer stay in control and hold hostage a country of 22 million.

    If you don’t want to left a finger to help these people then fine. But get the hell out of my way because I am coming through…

    BB



  • @BigBlocky:

    I’m a great fan of the UN but…… It has lately been a disaster… Germany in my opinion has taken herself entirely out of the equation, it is her choice. …Anybody who says “No matter what happens, I won’t do a thing” loses their right to consultation.

    True, i am not happy with that too firm position as well. But to be honest: In my memory the US started similar in the opposite position, not really accepting any “evidence” against their point.

    If the UN is hell bent on being useless as it was in Bosnia at Srebrencia … useless as it was in Rwanda …

    The UN is not the world government. It can only be as strong as it members want it to be, especially as the strongest member wants it to be.
    It’s not the worlds policeman, and it doesn’t have an own army to command. You can say it is weak, and i wouldn’t object. But: do you want it stronger or shattered?

    No, I’m sorry. The US has shown enough evidence. Even if there were no weapons of mass destruction there is no argument that I have heard that convinces me it’s better to let this mass murderer stay in control and hold hostage a country of 22 million.

    You are right in the second part of that caption, but i would not say at all that the US has shown enough evidence. It is more that the US defies what ever Hans Blix is saying: For the US, the Iraq is in a lose-lose situation. Whatever he does, the US won’t be satisfied and claim it’s further proof.

    If you don’t want to left a finger to help these people then fine. But get the hell out of my way because I am coming through……

    If your government had argued like that in the start, the situation would be totally different. To change the position now would lokk extremely silly and would hint that there is some hidden interest by the US that they don’t want to say alound.
    For you coming through and me getting out of your way: If you always prefer action without thinking, then it might be better for you if i trip you while you pass me. Then we can sit together and make up a strategy that has more chances of success.
    Assume you are right, and Saddam has WMD. Hoe many of his people do you think will survive being freed?


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