Why were there only 3 play-test games for Global?

@MaherC:

@calvinhobbesliker:

@MaherC:

after playing it i’m shocked there was any playtesting done by anyone with any degree of skill.   that goes double for pacific.

Yes, because 1 game determines whether it’s broken

You’re of course right.  Wait, no.  After 1 game of Pacific I was on here getting DESTROYED by all of the fanboys for my UNREASONABLE thought that the game was unbalanced, and a J1 attack is unstoppable….go ahead, read through the pac40 forums, I’ll wait…

I’ve actually played the game MORE than once, thanks for reading that I “played it” and assumed I meant once.

Also, I have a board at home that is setup and used only for strat.  While a game is being “played” strats are being discussed by members of the group on that board.    I don’t need to stub my toe 40 times to realize it hurts.  I don’t need to play global for 6 months to know that if EUROPE isn’t a massively allied game, that GLOBAL will not be balanced.   Oh right, we’re going to wait for PAC40 adjustments to balance things out…MONTHS after release.

You don’t need to stub your toe 40 times to realize it hurts, but you’ll have to play 40+ games of AAG before you can say there are definately no counters to a specific strategy, that may, at first glance, appear to break the game.

@MaherC:

Here, let me break it down for you like this.  0 is balanced.    1 + -1 = 0.

Pacific is 1.  Favoring Axis.   Therefore Europe HAS TO BE -1, Favoring Allied for the GLOBAL game to be = 0.

IF Global is balanced, then E40 cannot be.

This is not necessarily true.  The problem with AAP40 is an overpowered J1 attack.  Such an attack will bring the US into the war immediately, so I doubt you’ll see it much in the global game.  It would be too costly for Germany and Italy.

@MaherC:

PEOPLE ARE SAYING IPC VALUES MIGHT BE CHANGED!  Are you kiddng me?   Map corrections?   They going to send us out stickers to put over them?

I have never heard this rumor.  At any rate, it is untrue.

Bessarabia.    BORDER.    SMALL.  DONE.

@MaherC:

Bessarabia.    BORDER.    SMALL.  DONE.

Big deal. it’s worth 0 so usually no units will go there. Besides, I fit a stack of inf, art, mech, tanks, and 3 planes in there

Krieg:  I want you know that I consider you a fountain of valuable information, and I am grateful for your dedication to this game.

I’m sure you can’t answer this for whatever NDA linked reason, but I would like to know if playtesters were allowed to look at the map for hours or days BEFORE being locked in a room and told “PLAY!”

@calvinhobbesliker:

@MaherC:

Bessarabia.    BORDER.    SMALL.   DONE.

Big deal. it’s worth 0 so usually no units will go there. Besides, I fit a stack of inf, art, mech, tanks, and 3 planes in there

Wow.  No units go there.  Ok.  Don’t take this the wrong way but I am serious when I say I am no longer responding to anything you say on this subject.

@MaherC:

@calvinhobbesliker:

@MaherC:

Bessarabia.    BORDER.    SMALL.  DONE.

Big deal. it’s worth 0 so usually no units will go there. Besides, I fit a stack of inf, art, mech, tanks, and 3 planes in there

Wow.  No units go there.  Ok.  Don’t take this the wrong way but I am serious when I say I am no longer responding to anything you say on this subject.

I was exaggerating. But, let’s assume that is is a place where stacks are placed. i was able to put a large stack into it. Use the chips

no offense son, but I saw from another thread you still live with your parents.  when you’re not wet behind the ears I’ll take what you have to say seriously.

@MaherC:

no offense son, but I saw from another thread you still live with your parents.  when you’re not wet behind the ears I’ll take what you have to say seriously.

So since I’m not 18 yet, I am not allowed to have an opinion on the quality of the game?

@MaherC:

no offense son, but I saw from another thread you still live with your parents.   when you’re not wet behind the ears I’ll take what you have to say seriously.

You’re aware that his posts actually make more sense than yours, right?

:roll:

(PS No, I don’t agree with everything he says … but at least he doesn’t SHOUT as much and tends to use more than one word in a sentence.)

So, those of us who have global have spent ~$180 to become playtesters?  Super.

These snafus have soured many people I know to the AA franchise.  I know people who did not buy E40 after feeling cheated on P40.  People who have played AA for 20 years.  There are also people out there who are playing an unbalanced P40 who have no idea about the setup changes, or would even think to contact a manufacturer for an updated rulebook and missing pieces (when all the pieces in the rulebook shipped with the game are present) and are being turned off to buying another AA game (Like many who bought DDAY/GUADAL felt).

As for turning our gripes into grapes that will make the sweet wine of AA to wash away all our whine…that’s hard to do with all the LH fanboys out there defending their demigod as if he can never be wrong.  Pac40? Bad.  Blame Hasbro/WOTC or whoever.  Point is, it should not take 6 months to fix Pac40.  These games should be BALANCED AS STAND ALONE GAMES.  They are not.

It should not only posted on their site for download by the consumer but could also be sent out to those who request a copy similarly to what they did for the tac bombers/battle board……I agree!

If I get a new rulebook after all of this which includes the FAQ and correct setups, then it will be worth it.

I agree with JeffDestroyer, and to a minor degree MaherC.

I personally payed an enormous amount of money for this game (as I had a love of the MB version as a kid) with an assumption that the game would be relatively balanced.  Quite frankly I’m shocked, offended and enraged at how many people I’ve read coming to the defense of the game creators in these forums.  You should be furious with the creators, not just desperate to create rules to fix the game.

“They’re trying to correct the problems”, they say.  Well, that’s good.  As Jeff said above me, please mail out a corrected setup rulebook.  However, it’s quite clear that we really shelled out our money for an “IOU for one quality board game”.

I refuse to be a part of the playtesting experience on principle alone, as that is not what I intended to purchase.  If this were a free item or an optional add-on, I’d say “fine, I don’t have to use it”.  To those who say “Just use house rules”, if I wanted to do that, there’s very little reason to buy this game.

In the end, I feel duped and punked.  Tricked like a sucker to fancy graphics.  Only after searching the internet to see if other people felt ripped off did I find a site like this.  Strangely, the folks on it are actually TOO dedicated to Axis and Allies to fight the problem, and instead look to create a solution for themselves.

As for me, I’ll tell those that I know that Axis and Allies has a creator who should be flushed out of the profession.

You want Larry gone? He’s one of the best game designers. Unlike most, he actually listens to his customers and makes changes. The errors in Tacs, setup, and Battleboard are not his fault. The lack of balance stems from the J1 attack and J3 India Crush. The J3IC is a nuanced strategy that requires precise moves. Thus, it is difficult to discover even with 50 playtests, as the game has so many options. The J1 attack did not obviously lead to a victory in the beginning. It also requires precise planning and moves.

I know that Axis and Allies has a creator who should be flushed out of the profession.

Thats a terrible comment to make, but you got a right to it.

If it was not for him nobody would be here and nobody would be enjoying his games. He along with the chap who created Risk, invented area movement games and bucket of dice mechanism.

He is the father of American games with bits of plastic.

You can complain about play-test models and quality, but the bottom line is still a great game.

@Darkness:

I personally payed an enormous amount of money for this game(as I had a love of the MB version as a kid) with an assumption that the game would be relatively balanced.  Quite frankly I’m shocked, offended and enraged at how many people I’ve read coming to the defense of the game creators in these forums.  You should be furious with the creators, not just desperate to create rules to fix the game.

blah blah blah

As for me, I’ll tell those that I know that Axis and Allies has a creator who should be flushed out of the profession.

You know you are talking about the same guy here don’t you. You know the same guy that started it back in the 80"s and created the game you loved as a kid and the entire Axis & Allies series (along with a barrage of other games). Larry is still very hands on w/every game released. He heads the design team, and it is his people that test the game. This is a fairly complicated version, with A MUCH LARGER MAP (awesome), many new units, bases and minor allies. Many of us on this site have been waiting a long time for something of this level (so we can tinker with it). For you to bust in here with your 1st and only post (unless you have other aliases), with this kind of rant is just rude. You have the right to not like the game, but do a little research before you toss the AA creator under the bus on a site that holds him in high regard.

By the way, how many games have you played to even have this kind of reaction? It’s only been out for a couple weeks.

In my opinion people who want a basic/balanced game that they can just follow the rule book should play 1942. Global 1940 is an advanced version of the game and many advanced A&A players like to make house rules. Did you guys figure out the J1 attack or any of the other “bugs” on your own or did you find out about them by searching these forums? If you came up with those strategies on your own then more power to you. However, playtesting cannot compete with the army of players that are on these forums so once a powerful strategy is discovered by somebody then the news spreads pretty fast.

If playtesters played every possible scenerio to test it, then it would take 20 years for the game to be released.

Reading through earlier posts I saw references to a fix for “missing Tac bombers” in Pacific1940.  Does this mean there were supposed to be more than 6 Japanese Tac bomber pieces included?  If so, does it also mean we can contact the company and get the missing pieces sent to us?

Yes! They will send 6 more tacs free, and a new battleboard.

But Larry has come up with “alpha” setup for P40 now, and so you may not even need the extra 6  :lol:

2 of the 6 that WOTC sent me were crap (about to break), but I was happy for the 4.

With Alpha setup for P40, I think Global 1940 is a complete success.  I’m already thinking about what I would do about an American complex in Norway (first of all - if you take it over once it will smash it back down to a minor).  Point is, there are counters to things most times, like IL said.

All this talk about P40 being tilted toward Axis and E40 being tilted toward Allies so that G40 would be balanced is just ridiculous, IMO.  And you love your A&A Classic?  That’s nice - there were MAJOR fixes to that game.  The Axis need a HUGE bid, and/or alternate victory conditions, they need a Russian restricted attack, super subs, jets, etc etc.  A&A Classic was severely unbalanced, but I didn’t detect that until after I got used to it, got good at it, and finally realized the Allies win every time.  But a Russian restricted attack changed that quite a bit.

Do you really need your game to be perfect out of the box?  Then go buy a game of Monopoly or Risk.  A&A is as much art as it is science.  And when you think you know it all, challenge me to a game on-line and we’ll see.  :-)  Bet you blame the dice when we’re done.  :-D