Why were there only 3 play-test games for Global?



  • So from reading on the forums it looks like some test groups only got to try the game three times……

    Was that the case forevery test group? It does not seem like all the kinks an balance is likely to be worked out in so few games.

    We are now running into issues like the USA building the major IC in Norway, Japans starting air units, USA going KGF…

    Anyone else feel that even if the game is not badly unbalanced that it still could have used some more play testing sessions?



  • More play testing probally would have worked out more bugs, but since most of the issues can be solved with revisions to the rules/setup I’m ok with them releasing it…I was pretty excited to recieve the game.



  • Three is such a ridiculously low number I refuse to believe it!

    Of course I can’t believe there isn’t a $29.99 PC version also.

    Come to think of it I really like this game and can’t believe they got it this balanced with only 3 testings.



  • 4 words- “Wizards of the Coast”

    or “too much card playing”



  • after playing it i’m shocked there was any playtesting done by anyone with any degree of skill.  that goes double for pacific.



  • @MaherC:

    after playing it i’m shocked there was any playtesting done by anyone with any degree of skill.  that goes double for pacific.

    Yes, because 1 game determines whether it’s broken



  • @calvinhobbesliker:

    @MaherC:

    after playing it i’m shocked there was any playtesting done by anyone with any degree of skill.  that goes double for pacific.

    Yes, because 1 game determines whether it’s broken

    Yeah keeping all things equal, he should at least play 3 games before he decides its broken. Who in the hell started this 3 test game rumor anyway?


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Well don’t blame the testers. The idiots who think 3 sessions are all that are needed are at fault for that debacle which was AAP40. The new game seems promising but then again new glitches are being discovered rather quickly.

    This is the main reason why house rules are necessary in these cases. a Bid is just a shallow concept like sweeping the problems under a rug and just saying “here take the cash i cant figure out anything to fix this”

    But play it out and try to find a solution to these glitches to counter them. If that does not work, then simple rules can fix anything.

    But if it is a common thing to let guys play it out three times its really sad that it has come to this. I don’t know of any-game that could possibly be produced with THAT.


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Who in the hell started this 3 test game rumor anyway?

    One of the play testers had posted the same. This only means he got 3 plays, it does not mean everybody played it 3 times. It could mean also that the others only played it once.

    I don’t think we can assume another group got say 100 play tests and one guy got 3. The truth as to the average is mostly assumable at around 3.

    The other thing is he could be lying, but i doubt it.



  • Then again this game is so complex that even with more playtesting there probably would still be some strategies that, if executed correctly, would “break” the game. For a game to be truly balanced both players need to start with the same initial conditions (chess, checkers, go, etc.)

    I think that is probably one reason Larry endorses house rules.



  • Having done playtesting for three different games, I can safely say that:

    • before the finished game goes to playtesting groups, a lot of playtesting will already have been done by the developers

    • playing three testgames by several different testgroups each of several playtesters is actually quite a lot

    • playtesting involves a lot more than just playing “a game”

    Not saying that this game is balanced or not, but the oh-no-just-3-games-hype is basicly bull.

    😉



  • @calvinhobbesliker:

    @MaherC:

    after playing it i’m shocked there was any playtesting done by anyone with any degree of skill.   that goes double for pacific.

    Yes, because 1 game determines whether it’s broken

    You’re of course right.  Wait, no.  After 1 game of Pacific I was on here getting DESTROYED by all of the fanboys for my UNREASONABLE thought that the game was unbalanced, and a J1 attack is unstoppable….go ahead, read through the pac40 forums, I’ll wait…

    I’ve actually played the game MORE than once, thanks for reading that I “played it” and assumed I meant once.

    Also, I have a board at home that is setup and used only for strat.  While a game is being “played” strats are being discussed by members of the group on that board.    I don’t need to stub my toe 40 times to realize it hurts.  I don’t need to play global for 6 months to know that if EUROPE isn’t a massively allied game, that GLOBAL will not be balanced.  Oh right, we’re going to wait for PAC40 adjustments to balance things out…MONTHS after release.



  • @MaherC:

    @calvinhobbesliker:

    @MaherC:

    after playing it i’m shocked there was any playtesting done by anyone with any degree of skill.  that goes double for pacific.

    Yes, because 1 game determines whether it’s broken

    You’re of course right.  Wait, no.  After 1 game of Pacific I was on here getting DESTROYED by all of the fanboys for my UNREASONABLE thought that the game was unbalanced, and a J1 attack is unstoppable….go ahead, read through the pac40 forums, I’ll wait…

    I’ve actually played the game MORE than once, thanks for reading that I “played it” and assumed I meant once.

    Also, I have a board at home that is setup and used only for strat.  While a game is being “played” strats are being discussed by members of the group on that board.    I don’t need to stub my toe 40 times to realize it hurts.  I don’t need to play global for 6 months to know that if EUROPE isn’t a massively allied game, that GLOBAL will not be balanced.  Oh right, we’re going to wait for PAC40 adjustments to balance things out…MONTHS after release.

    Just because 1 game of theirs is broken doesn’t mean that the next ones are morle likely to be broken.



  • for 180$ combined cost, the game should be finished.  missing tac bombers, bad starting setups, oceans that are 2 different colors, misprinted maps (names, the way sz’s connect to land)

    The game board is 72" x 32"….FOR THE LOVE OF GOD CAN WE GET BIGGER SPACES IN EUROPE?    I get that africa is a bigger continent, I do.   But in terms of THIS GAME you aren’t going to see huge battles in SW africa…but there are spots in Eurasia where you can’t fit more than 2 infantry…



  • @MaherC:

    for 180$ combined cost, the game should be finished.  missing tac bombers, bad starting setups, oceans that are 2 different colors, misprinted maps (names, the way sz’s connect to land)

    The game board is 72" x 32"….FOR THE LOVE OF GOD CAN WE GET BIGGER SPACES IN EUROPE?    I get that africa is a bigger continent, I do.  But in terms of THIS GAME you aren’t going to see huge battles in SW africa…but there are spots in Eurasia where you can’t fit more than 2 infantry…

    Dude, they fixed the tac bombers problem in P40, and it’s not a problem in E40. They learned from their mistakes to make a better E40 and G40.

    The only place in Eurasia unable to fit more than 2 inf would be Bessarabia.



  • @calvinhobbesliker:

    Just because 1 game of theirs is broken doesn’t mean that the next ones are morle likely to be broken.

    Here, let me break it down for you like this.  0 is balanced.    1 + -1 = 0.

    Pacific is 1.  Favoring Axis.   Therefore Europe HAS TO BE -1, Favoring Allied for the GLOBAL game to be = 0.

    IF Global is balanced, then E40 cannot be.

    Let me also say there are hopefully (for WOTC’s bottom line’s sake) more people out there who BOUGHT 1 or both of these games WHO DO NOT COME TO THESE BOARDS OR LARRY HARRIS’S FANSITE.

    So they are boned.   Playing w/a bad setup for Pac40.   Soured on buying E40.    Do you understand why this game should not made it out of QA?  This isn’t software where you can download an update.   PEOPLE ARE SAYING IPC VALUES MIGHT BE CHANGED!  Are you kiddng me?   Map corrections?   They going to send us out stickers to put over them?



  • @MaherC:

    @calvinhobbesliker:

    Just because 1 game of theirs is broken doesn’t mean that the next ones are morle likely to be broken.

    Here, let me break it down for you like this.  0 is balanced.    1 + -1 = 0.

    Pacific is 1.  Favoring Axis.  Therefore Europe HAS TO BE -1, Favoring Allied for the GLOBAL game to be = 0.

    IF Global is balanced, then E40 cannot be.

    Let me also say there are hopefully (for WOTC’s bottom line’s sake) more people out there who BOUGHT 1 or both of these games WHO DO NOT COME TO THESE BOARDS OR LARRY HARRIS’S FANSITE.

    So they are boned.  Playing w/a bad setup for Pac40.  Soured on buying E40.    Do you understand why this game should not made it out of QA?  This isn’t software where you can download an update.  PEOPLE ARE SAYING IPC VALUES MIGHT BE CHANGED!  Are you kiddng me?  Map corrections?  They going to send us out stickers to put over them?

    There is more to Global than the sum of E40 and P40. Global has 18 extra Russian inf and 9 extra Russian ipcs that don’t exist in Europe. Global has less NO’s and different NO’s. You can’t predict the balance of G40 by adding the balances of E40 and P40



  • @calvinhobbesliker:

    Dude, they fixed the tac bombers problem in P40, and it’s not a problem in E40. They learned from their mistakes to make a better E40 and G40.

    The only place in Eurasia unable to fit more than 2 inf would be Bessarabia.

    They fixed it by making you call in for more.  Again, you had to be AWARE of the problem and for the record I was one of those people who called them 20+ times COMPLAINING about it to get that oil that all of us squeaky wheels needed.  Novice/New players are screwed.

    SE Europe has some small areas too.    And yeah, silly me thinking that you might want some ROOM to place units on the USSR/GER border! 🙂

    Let me be clear.   I LOVE AXIS AND ALLIES.   I don’t love what they have done/are doing to the franchise.   They rushed Pac40.   They didn’t learn for Europe/Global.

    Pac40 was broken and released.  They have to release a broken Europe to make Global balanced.



  • Done arguing.  I’ll sit back for a month and watch everyone realize the games aren’t balanced.



  • @MaherC:

    @calvinhobbesliker:

    Dude, they fixed the tac bombers problem in P40, and it’s not a problem in E40. They learned from their mistakes to make a better E40 and G40.

    The only place in Eurasia unable to fit more than 2 inf would be Bessarabia.

    They fixed it by making you call in for more.  Again, you had to be AWARE of the problem and for the record I was one of those people who called them 20+ times COMPLAINING about it to get that oil that all of us squeaky wheels needed.  Novice/New players are screwed.

    SE Europe has some small areas too.    And yeah, silly me thinking that you might want some ROOM to place units on the USSR/GER border! 🙂

    Let me be clear.  I LOVE AXIS AND ALLIES.  I don’t love what they have done/are doing to the franchise.  They rushed Pac40.  They didn’t learn for Europe/Global.

    Pac40 was broken and released.  They have to release a broken Europe to make Global balanced.

    I guess you didn’t read my argument about the 18 inf and 9 ipcs.

    Only Bulgaria and Greece are small, and they’re not even on the Russian border



  • @MaherC:

    @calvinhobbesliker:

    @MaherC:

    after playing it i’m shocked there was any playtesting done by anyone with any degree of skill.   that goes double for pacific.

    Yes, because 1 game determines whether it’s broken

    You’re of course right.  Wait, no.  After 1 game of Pacific I was on here getting DESTROYED by all of the fanboys for my UNREASONABLE thought that the game was unbalanced, and a J1 attack is unstoppable….go ahead, read through the pac40 forums, I’ll wait…

    I’ve actually played the game MORE than once, thanks for reading that I “played it” and assumed I meant once.

    Also, I have a board at home that is setup and used only for strat.  While a game is being “played” strats are being discussed by members of the group on that board.    I don’t need to stub my toe 40 times to realize it hurts.  I don’t need to play global for 6 months to know that if EUROPE isn’t a massively allied game, that GLOBAL will not be balanced.   Oh right, we’re going to wait for PAC40 adjustments to balance things out…MONTHS after release.

    You don’t need to stub your toe 40 times to realize it hurts, but you’ll have to play 40+ games of AAG before you can say there are definately no counters to a specific strategy, that may, at first glance, appear to break the game.


  • Official Answers

    @MaherC:

    Here, let me break it down for you like this.  0 is balanced.    1 + -1 = 0.

    Pacific is 1.  Favoring Axis.   Therefore Europe HAS TO BE -1, Favoring Allied for the GLOBAL game to be = 0.

    IF Global is balanced, then E40 cannot be.

    This is not necessarily true.  The problem with AAP40 is an overpowered J1 attack.  Such an attack will bring the US into the war immediately, so I doubt you’ll see it much in the global game.  It would be too costly for Germany and Italy.

    @MaherC:

    PEOPLE ARE SAYING IPC VALUES MIGHT BE CHANGED!  Are you kiddng me?   Map corrections?   They going to send us out stickers to put over them?

    I have never heard this rumor.  At any rate, it is untrue.



  • Bessarabia.    BORDER.    SMALL.  DONE.



  • @MaherC:

    Bessarabia.    BORDER.    SMALL.  DONE.

    Big deal. it’s worth 0 so usually no units will go there. Besides, I fit a stack of inf, art, mech, tanks, and 3 planes in there



  • Krieg:  I want you know that I consider you a fountain of valuable information, and I am grateful for your dedication to this game.

    I’m sure you can’t answer this for whatever NDA linked reason, but I would like to know if playtesters were allowed to look at the map for hours or days BEFORE being locked in a room and told “PLAY!”


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