Isnt the game just broken if USA builds a major factory in Norway?



  • @Imperious:

    Yoper said HE playtested it 3 times. That doesn’t mean it was only playtested 3 times

    You can assume that most of the playtests were also granted three sessions with each group of playtesters based on his statement.

    I don’t think we can assume that some groups got say 10 sessions in and others were booked for 3 right?

    I remember old AH games had to go thru like 100 playtests before published.

    Okay, how many playtesting groups are there?



  • I thought in the global rules you could only build minor complexes in foriegn land. Or was this a rule from some other AA game. I get them all mixed up. Can someone elaborate. This would also seem to be a good fix.

    Building factories in foreign land would never be as productive as in your own land with your own people.

    Eddie


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    You can build them as you like. AA is not realistic and it allows this.



  • I am starting to think the game may be broken.  Me and my buddy have played 8 games so far and neither one of us has won as the axis.  We played 1942 together many times and never saw a winning streak like that and we are about equal skill level though he is probably a little bit better than me.  When American goes into Europe with force they have been unstoppable every time.  We believe that if Italy and Germany turtle from round 1 then American might be able to be stopped but the have so many choices of landing zones off the coast of Africa and after that they will get a major factory in Europe unless the axis player is playing a great game.  Now I have no idea how an axis player could get to Moscow while fighting off this stragedy from America.  We have used Japan to try and mess with America but in the end if America builds a bunch of troops on its coast Japan can only do so much.  Plus it slows Japan down big time if they bring the resources to the table to try and mess with America.

    Maybe the problem is me and my friend but it is starting to not be as fun because the storyline each game has been Amercia saves the day.



  • I agree that Norway should be worth fewer points realistically speaking and Ukraine, Caucasus etc. more. However, probably for game balance reasons they decided against this.

    Well, what can Germany do to hold Norway? Answer: Build a major IC there themselves! If the US doesn’t attack, the money certainly isn’t wasted because this way and this close to Leningrad you easily outproduce the Russian minor IC there. Under certain circumstances you could even build a fleet there with some transports and land in Nemetsia or Archangel outflanking the Russians.

    BTW, is it only a global rule that a Major IC is downgraded to minor when captured or does this also hold true for Europe40?

    Something I don’t like about the US is that in all my games so far, understandably, because the rules allow it, the US build up an invasion feelt, park it two sea zones off the European coast and right away land in France, Norway, Holland or whatever. I think they should be forced not to leave the sea zone bordering the Eastern seaboard until at war.

    Perhaps also the Russians could be forced to leave a certain number of troops in the border territories (optional rule I’d say, because obviously this was the WRONG decision in actual life, but exactly why the German invasion was so successful initially and so many Russian forces were destroyed), in AAEurope/global 40, however, all they ever do is retreat from the border territories, thereby consolodating their forces.



  • whats the point in making norway worth less? it has strategic importance for the germans. beside norway is maybe the most beautiful country in the whole world and has the highest % of beautiful women…. nuff said



  • A minor IC in Finland can help the Northern assault and help repel an invasion of Norway.


  • 2020 2018 2017 '15

    Major factories aren’t downgraded when taken.

    Stop generalizing that “The game is broken!” because you and your play group suck as the Axis.  Don’t you think it should be a bit harder for the Axis to win over the Allies?

    Just make up house rules to compensate for your own lack of skill; stop trying to push rule changes that would affect everyone else that can actually play.

    8 games is not enough to declare a game broken, especially if they’re with the same group of people.  Try playing with new people everytime and let me know when the game count hits 100 with over 30 different people.

    If your playgroup hasn’t figured out how to counter a Norway factory build, then maybe the Allies could try something else for a change.  There are options in this game.



  • @Whackamatt:

    Major factories aren’t downgraded when taken.

    Stop generalizing that “The game is broken!” because you and your play group suck as the Axis.  Don’t you think it should be a bit harder for the Axis to win over the Allies?

    Just make up house rules to compensate for your own lack of skill; stop trying to push rule changes that would affect everyone else that can actually play.

    8 games is not enough to declare a game broken, especially if they’re with the same group of people.  Try playing with new people everytime and let me know when the game count hits 100 with over 30 different people.

    If your playgroup hasn’t figured out how to counter a Norway factory build, then maybe the Allies could try something else for a change.  There are options in this game.

    OK, thought so. They are downgraded in Global, though!

    I agree that many people (sometimes myself included) need to play a game more often before declaring it broken. I do believe that Pacific40 is an exception, however, as the flaws in that game are so incredibly obvious that you can spot them after only playing the game once or twice. I don’t understand this wasn’t spotted during playtesting. So far I have no reason to believe that Europe as a game is broken. I think the Norway strategy can be countered, as I’ve explained above.

    As for houserules; whether they’re necessary or not is debatable. Some of them do however greatly improve the historical feel of the game and/or are more realistic. Nothing wrong with that. Of course you do have to make sure you don’t imbalance the game by doing just that…

    Finally, although you make some valid points, I do feel a bit more courtesy in your message wouldn’t have hurt.


  • 2020 2018 2017 '15

    Noted.  and I do apologize Koningstiger, that wasn’t directed at you.  IL does nothing buy claim the game is broken, in just about every post the moment the game is available.  Often time there is little to back up the claims, and they happen after having played the game “once or twice”.  It’s rarely constructive, and I just got tired of reading the same “ZOMG!  BROKEN!” posts.



  • IL, it is high time you step up to the plate and put your game where your mouth is. Start playing here with ABattleMap, so we can see how good or bad your play style is. No excuses about not playing outside your play group of face to face games. You are here plenty to play by forum.


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    IL does nothing buy claim the game is broken

    Read the title of this thread. If USA gets a major in Norway and can sustain it i posed the question with a ?

    This means its up to others to make their own decision. I didn’t say it was broken, However it might seem so if USA can sustain a factory.

    You really need to learn to stop reading into posts and make claims.

    BTW AAP40 was broken and that was confirmed, so when others posted the same where did you show up to make the same claim your making now? Where are your posts chastising others that AAP40 claims that it is broken are nonsense?

    Id like to see your reasoning on that. 😐


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Start playing here with ABattleMap

    That is not AAE40. Its a horrible looking program that can’t be improved because its got antiquated grafics and it sucks.

    To me it would be like playing a game using crayons for a map and Cheetos for pieces. I don’t do that.

    Just add a USA major to Norway and see if Germany can counter it. See if its possible and what it would take to stop it and still fight USSR and UK.



  • I have not tried to push rule changes on anyone.  I really don’t want to be the one tinkering around with how to balance the game.  I don’t think I would be able to do that.  8 games is not enough to declare a game broken but I wanted to come online here and see if other people were having the same results and if so how to best deal with it.  Maybe I am just bad as the axis and so is my group that I play with but time will tell.  My one friend who is the best axis and allies player in my group is determined to win as the axis and keeps coming up with new ideas but so far nothing has worked.  I don’t think I ever beat him twice in a row playing 1942 but if my count is correct I have now beaten him 6 times with the allies since global came out.  Something is just fishy about that to me.



  • In the global game, a major IC captured gets downgraded. So if germany builds a major, or even a minor, it prevents the US from have a major. Since it cannnot destroy the complex and you can only have 1 per territory, doesn’t that keep the US from developing a major complex.

    I also agree with the house rule that the US cannot move its ship off the coast until at war.



  • @eddiem4145:

    In the global game, a major IC captured gets downgraded. So if germany builds a major, or even a minor, it prevents the US from have a major. Since it cannnot destroy the complex and you can only have 1 per territory, doesn’t that keep the US from developing a major complex.

    I also agree with the house rule that the US cannot move its ship off the coast until at war.

    US can pay 20 to upgrade it to a major


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Do you know that at least one of the play-tester groups had only 3 sessions to playtest the game?

    Does that mean to you at least in that case it is enough to entirely discover any glitches in the game?

    It took me one game to get to the conclusion that AAP40 had something wrong and Japan had way too many planes. I knew this by just looking at her setup sheet even before starting play.

    I don’t know is AAE40 is balanced or not but my suspicion is after getting US to a point where they can hold Norway, i don’t seem to find a way to counter it by any means.That conclusion is FROM PLAYING GAMES FROM BOTH SIDES. Russia can’t fall by turn G5-7. Its impossible unless the player for Russia is incompetent.

    Germany cant deal with 10 units pumping out. They must have a naval solution to counter this, and if it does not do it early it has little chance to recover IMO.

    I hope i find a solution but it looks really bad.



  • @Imperious:

    Do you know that at least one of the play-tester groups had only 3 sessions to playtest the game?

    Does that mean to you at least in that case it is enough to entirely discover any glitches in the game?

    It took me one game to get to the conclusion that AAP40 had something wrong and Japan had way too many planes. I knew this by just looking at her setup sheet even before starting play.

    I don’t know is AAE40 is balanced or not but my suspicion is after getting US to a point where they can hold Norway, i don’t seem to find a way to counter it by any means.That conclusion is FROM PLAYING GAMES FROM BOTH SIDES. Russia can’t fall by turn G5-7. Its impossible unless the player for Russia is incompetent.

    Germany cant deal with 10 units pumping out. They must have a naval solution to counter this, and if it does not do it early it has little chance to recover IMO.

    I hope i find a solution but it looks really bad.

    Wait, I thought the game is broken due to your sealion strat of blocking Z104 with a CC


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Wait, I thought the game is broken due to your sealion strat of blocking Z104 with a CC

    No that just blocks the UK fleet from killing my main fleet and allowing maximum chances for G2 sealion. It also gets Italy from losing her fleet if Germany is able to kill all her attacks.

    UK must bring her tactical bomber to UK with the 9 Inf builds to protect against G2 sealion.

    The CA block is the key move to stall any credible attack against my builds or my main fleet.



  • What is CA. carrier aircraft or cruiser. I see different abbreviations



  • @Imperious:

    Do you know that at least one of the play-tester groups had only 3 sessions to playtest the game?

    Does that mean to you at least in that case it is enough to entirely discover any glitches in the game?

    It took me one game to get to the conclusion that AAP40 had something wrong and Japan had way too many planes. I knew this by just looking at her setup sheet even before starting play.

    I don’t know is AAE40 is balanced or not but my suspicion is after getting US to a point where they can hold Norway, i don’t seem to find a way to counter it by any means.That conclusion is FROM PLAYING GAMES FROM BOTH SIDES. Russia can’t fall by turn G5-7. Its impossible unless the player for Russia is incompetent.

    Germany cant deal with 10 units pumping out. They must have a naval solution to counter this, and if it does not do it early it has little chance to recover IMO.

    I hope i find a solution but it looks really bad.

    I agree that it is major hard for Russia to fall to Germany if the person playing russia knows what they are doing.  My friend and I were going to try the Germany Navy next to try get the troops needed to Moscow through Lennigrad.  I am curious to see how it works.  Every game we have played resulted in the Russian stacks getting too big for Germany to handle. We tried mechs and tanks but the russian stacks just grew too big.  Germany just did not have points to build all those expensive units to take over Russia and still defend against America.  Now we are thinking inexpensive art/inf shucks over by transports might work but I really don’t know how it will go till we try it at least once.

    We both have concerns about the balance of the game because if America goes all in the Atlantic it is going to be really hard to stop them from landing somewhere in Europe, holding it, and popping up a major factory.  At that point Germany is in major trouble to say the least.  While Japan can grow to US point level, it can’t get major factories very close to Russia.  So from our experience it is hard for Japan to get to Moscow before US can get to Berlin.  Now my friend has tried going for victory cities as the axis and if America leaves the Pacific alone they can get quite a few but if America then blows a hole in Europe before Axis can get 14 victory cities they have no choice but to try and take an allied capital.  Chances are at the point Rome or Berlin will fall to US first and then the axis are all but doomed.

    We have played games where America spends in the Pacific and it can seriously mess with Japan if Japan does not take and hold Hawaii.  US spending in Pacific is a viable way to get an allied win.  The problem seems to be that spending all in the Atlantic is an even more viable way to win.  My friend used Japan to try and attack the west coast of US and convoy raid but America can put down many cheap units in mainland and then Japan can’t really do too much.  The convoy raids soon become ineffective because of America gaining points in Europe.

    Maybe we just need more experience but we have not been able to find a way for Germany to Crack Russia and hold off America.  I believe that if Germany does a turtle from the word go and just aims to take one Russian city that they could hold back America for quite some time but that seems like a boring way to play.  We were hoping to use Germany to kill something.

    People are shouting you down now IL about raising balance concerns but I suspect within 3-6 months you will here more people saying that you have valid points.



  • If you ignore Japan, don’t go into Siberia or North America; take India and attack Middle East, Caucasus, and East Africa.



  • Someone please tell me what CA is?

    The answer in balance and realism is in solving the AAP40 problem. China needs to be stronger in Asia, and Japan needs to be able to take more of an advantage in the Pacific forcing the US not to ignore them. This is the fix.

    Let China go before Japan. Give China one extra infantry per territory it held at the beginning of the turn. In exchange, give Japan a double impusle attack on its first turn at war with the US and force the US to keep its pacific navy in Hawaii except for its aircraft carrier.

    This creates the realism of pearl harbor and the surprise advantage Japan had where it quickly sank the UK navy near the dutch east indies and took over those islands quickly. It decimates the pacific navy and leave Australia for the taking UNLESS the US spends money right away to stop it. They have the money to do it but gives Germany a few more turns.

    If the US does not do it, the power the Japs have in the pacific force it to use it. And once Australia is taken, then it is to easy for Japan to harrass the US with economic raids, taking Hawaii, even invading South America. The point is, they have a naval force with no opposition, so use it. With a captured factory off of Australia, they can ferry men to South America, or central america, ect…. At this point, the US ignores Japan at its peril. Japan can reach over 90 IPC’s by turn 3 or 4 if done right unless the US acts.

    Eddie


  • 2018 2017 '16 '15 Customizer

    @eddiem4145:

    Someone please tell me what CA is?

    Eddie, a CA in military acronym stands for a Cruiser (I believe the ‘A’ part is for “Attack”).

    Aircraft Carrier is CV (Carrier Vessel)

    Luke



  • @oztea:

    House Rule

    No major factories may be built on foreign soil.

    or: no major factories on territories (without victory cities) which are not worth at least 3IPC


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