• Totally agree with CRUSADERIV and UN SPACY


  • Having the Vichy regime in the game doesn’t make a lot of sense to me for historical reasons.  Vichy played a negligible military role in the war and was completely occupied by Germany in 1942 anyway.  The terms of the armistice with Germany prevented the Vichy regime from producing anything other than infantry (at severely capped numbers).  The only French colonies of any importance that the Vichy regime managed to hold were the North African ones (sub-Saharan Africa, I believe, very quickly joined the Resistance), and those forces defected pretty quickly to the Allies after Operation Torch.

    Adding Vichy rules would give the regime significance in the game that it didn’t have during the war.  Of course, you could argue, who cares, it’s just a game, but isn’t historical accuracy the only reason anyone is talking about this in the first place?

    What would make more sense (from a historical, if not necessarily gameplay perspective), would be for Italy to be eliminated after Allied capture of Sicily or Southern Italy, all its units removed from the board, and a certain number of German units added to Northern Italy to reflect the fact that the Germans were the ones directing the fighting against the Allies at that point.


  • Having the Vichy regime in the game doesn’t make a lot of sense to me for historical reasons.  Vichy played a negligible military role in the war and was completely occupied by Germany in 1942 anyway.  The terms of the armistice with Germany prevented the Vichy regime from producing anything other than infantry (at severely capped numbers).  The only French colonies of any importance that the Vichy regime managed to hold were the North African ones (sub-Saharan Africa, I believe, very quickly joined the Resistance), and those forces defected pretty quickly to the Allies after Operation Torch.

    I don’t agree with you.
    Fight occurs between Free freench-UK and Vichy.
    Madagascar and Syria are good examples.
    French fleet was also a stake between english and german.
    You under estimated the Vichy-French presence.

    Adding Vichy rules would give the regime significance in the game that it didn’t have during the war.  Of course, you could argue, who cares, it’s just a game, but isn’t historical accuracy the only reason anyone is talking about this in the first place?
    Yes it’s only a game. But for some people accuracy and realism it’s important.


  • But then if Japan attacks FIC, then all true neutrals will become pro-allied

    Good question.
    That’s why I introduced in my house rules.
    Annexation and political influence.


  • @rhesusman:

    Having the Vichy regime in the game doesn’t make a lot of sense to me for historical reasons.  Vichy played a negligible military role in the war and was completely occupied by Germany in 1942 anyway.  The terms of the armistice with Germany prevented the Vichy regime from producing anything other than infantry (at severely capped numbers).  The only French colonies of any importance that the Vichy regime managed to hold were the North African ones (sub-Saharan Africa, I believe, very quickly joined the Resistance), and those forces defected pretty quickly to the Allies after Operation Torch.

    Adding Vichy rules would give the regime significance in the game that it didn’t have during the war.  Of course, you could argue, who cares, it’s just a game, but isn’t historical accuracy the only reason anyone is talking about this in the first place?

    What would make more sense (from a historical, if not necessarily gameplay perspective), would be for Italy to be eliminated after Allied capture of Sicily or Southern Italy, all its units removed from the board, and a certain number of German units added to Northern Italy to reflect the fact that the Germans were the ones directing the fighting against the Allies at that point.

    Well, they didn’t join the “Resistance”. The Free French and French Resistance were two completely different entities.

  • Customizer

    @crusaderiv:

    But then if Japan attacks FIC, then all true neutrals will become pro-allied

    Good question.
    That’s why I introduced in my house rules.
    Annexation and political influence.

    Territories which become neutral as the result of a major power losing it’s capital wouldn’t be included in the “attack one attack all” rule.

    Think of these tts as being in a state of chaos for a turn; anyone who can move in more units than the defenders can take over without a fight because the defenders can’t decide which side they’re on.  After this they will simply hold on to what they have against all comers until their own capital is liberated.

    So, to use some historical examples:
    After the fall of Paris, the UK will probably be able to move enough units into FEA to take it over and convert the defenders to Free French.  West Africa will be a little trickier, French North Africa is probably out of the question at this stage, while Madagascar will require an amphibious operation.
    French Indochina will be an obvious target for Japanese intervention.
    In Europe, Germany would probably target Normandy as well as Paris to prevent the Brits getting any ideas about taking it over on B1, but Southern France could be left alone for now; let the remaining French defend it themselves!
    Only when the Allies land in French North Africa in enough force to be within striking distance of Marseilles will the Germans consider it prudent to send their own units into the area.

    When the allies land in Southern Italy Germany can leave the Italians to defend the north of their country, but without any Italian ability to reinforce the area it’d be better to send in your own forces to take over before the neutral Italians can get organized or overpowered by the Allies.


  • I don’t agree with you.
    Fight occurs between Free freench-UK and Vichy.
    Madagascar and Syria are good examples.

    They were relatively minor skirmishes, which eventually resulted in half of the Vichy forces returning to France, and the other joining the Free French. The only real significant conflict between the Vichy forces and Allies were Operation Torch and Dakar.

    French fleet was also a stake between english and german.

    It was, which led to the British bombing the fleet stationed at Mers-el-Kébir. The Germans and Italians did not try to take the French fleet until 1942 at Toulon, in where the French scuttled the fleet there.

    Again, the addition of Vichy rules are quite unnecessary, but there are those which really want historical accuracy, which is fine by me.  :roll:


  • They were relatively minor skirmishes, which eventually resulted in half of the Vichy forces returning to France, and the other joining the Free French. The only real significant conflict between the Vichy forces and Allies were Operation Torch and Dakar.

    No.no.no….Vichy side 1066 dead 450 wounded. 4000 dead/wounded on FF and UK side.
    Battle begins june 8 and stop july 12. It wasn’t a minor skirmishes.

    Madagascar battle = may 5 to november 5.
    Less dead but a lot of fight.
    In fact, compare to Madagascar and Syria, operation Torch was a skirmishes.


  • @crusaderiv:

    They were relatively minor skirmishes, which eventually resulted in half of the Vichy forces returning to France, and the other joining the Free French. The only real significant conflict between the Vichy forces and Allies were Operation Torch and Dakar.

    No.no.no….Vichy side 1066 dead 450 wounded. 4000 dead/wounded on FF and UK side.
    Battle begins june 8 and stop july 12. It wasn’t a minor skirmishes.

    Madagascar battle = may 5 to november 5.
    Less dead but a lot of fight.
    In fact, compare to Madagascar and Syria, operation Torch was a skirmishes.

    It was a minor skirmish in comparison to the titanic clashes on the Eastern Front, or the battles between the Brits and Krauts in North Africa. I didn’t say it wasn’t a bloodbath.

    Still, Vichy France’s few skirmishes does not mean it deserves to be called active in the overarching war.


  • Ya well, eveything is a skirmish compare to the eastern front!

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