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Germany True Neutral Crush G3



  • So like everyone else here, I’ve been enjoying the hell out of the new political rules and Axis and Allies wonderland that is AAG40.  It is turning out to be one hell of a game, with umpteen zillion different strategies and maneuvers to be tried out yet.  I haven’t had a chance to try out this particular idea yet, but it seems like it might really be something worth trying, especially for:

    Helping out Italy in the Middle East
    Opening a second front in Russia
    Widening a corridor to India
    Holding Gibraltar to protect the Med

    Run a standard opening G1 ploy for a Sealion attack (1 DD, 1 SS, 1 CV built), all UK navy round England destroyed, etc., but take out N/B on the first round as well as France, though.  Take Yugoslavia.  Align Finland and Bulgaria (you will need the 4 inf from Bulgaria).  Stack your troops in position to attack Greece the next round, and make sure you reinforce Finland using your G1 transport (inf/art).

    On G2, build 6 inf for N/B + France, a minor IC for Yugoslavia (maybe, if you feel like getting the Cairo NO later on), and whatever else you feel like (navy, air, you’ve got 68 IPCs!)  Send your fleet out into the Atlantic to prevent England from fleet buys around the UK, take Greece with maximum forces (you will need at least 6 units left), and position your armor from France so that some will be capable of reaching Spain from N/B or sending east (W. Germany should work fine, put some in Bulgaria if they reach as well.)  Drop some more inf/art off in Finland, and make sure your air force is centralized so its capable of hitting multiple targets (again, W. Germany or Yugoslavia).

    G3, CRUSH THE TRUE NEUTRALS!!!  Show that ungrateful Franco what he deserves for declaring neutrality after sending him so much help during his Civil War!  Split your forces accordingly and go after Spain, Turkey, and Sweden!  They will only have infantry and should at most inflict only superficial casaulties (well maybe not with Turkey, but with plenty of air it should keel over quickly).  You might want to declare war on the SU as well if the border territories are empty (and also to kill the Soviet BB in the Baltic).

    PROS

    You can send tanks into the Middle East now!  You can even threaten India to the East, and attack Russia from the south!  You can constantly build infantry in France and send a 10 man stack into Gibraltar and keep the Allies from sending navy into the Med!  Italy can land troops against Russia from the Black Sea!  You also gain 7 IPCs from those troublesome meddling neutrals!

    CONS

    ALL the other True Neutrals on the map become Pro-Allied!  The US gains +4 IPCs and troops from S. America, the Brits gain a few from Africa/Saudi Arabia/Afganistan, and Mongolia will either become Russian or Chinese!  Your tanks are not where they need to be to threaten Russia!  Russia can also attack you through Turkey now!

    Overall though, I think it might be worth it.  Russia will have some extra steam from not really being attacked by Germany until round 4, but then Russia will be making less IPCs than Germany will, esp with the neutral money factored in.  They will also have more fronts to cover.  Germany will also have more fronts to cover as well, especially Spain, but the advantage of sending troops overland across France will offset the need for Germany/Italy to buy transports/compete navally with the Allies to try to reinforce Gibraltar for blocking.

    I’m thinking if the Axis can hold Spain/Gibraltar for a few turns, that’s plenty of time to screw up the Middle East, open the way into Africa for Italy, and possibly threaten India if necessary.



  • You forgot that Britain activates 4 inf in Africa



  • @calvinhobbesliker:

    You forgot that Britain activates 4 inf in Africa

    4 Inf in Africa, 2 Inf in Saudi Arabia, and 2 inf from Afganistan!  Quite a gamble!  But still, if they can’t get reinforcements through, I think it’d be worth trying.



  • @SgtBlitz:

    @calvinhobbesliker:

    You forgot that Britain activates 4 inf in Africa

    4 Inf in Africa, 2 Inf in Saudi Arabia, and 2 inf from Afganistan!  Quite a gamble!  But still, if they can’t get reinforcements through, I think it’d be worth trying.

    Actually, Afghanistan has 4 inf.



  • sounds good,but a bit risky,it could all go pear shaped,and you will give the soviets 6 inf in mongolia,as china cant attack acme wall,thats 24 soviet inf to hit the japs with



  • as USA i will also gladly harvest the 6 extra IPC’s and a couple of inf. in South America.

    Attacking true neutrals sounds really insane, you’d have to attack all 3 major neutral countries succesfully at once (sweden, turkey and spain) and you’ll be giving up the obstacle that SPain always used to be for the allies.

    It does show a lot of axis balls 😉



  • This sounds good SgtBlitz, you should have kept this strat quiet to use on someone!



  • i think by the letter of the rules somewhere Greece does not touch Turkey.

    Transports must still be used to take out Turkey



  • I think it sounds awesome and fun because thats what a game is, fun! You should try this and report back to us!



  • @oztea:

    i think by the letter of the rules somewhere Greece does not touch Turkey.

    Transports must still be used to take out Turkey

    Look at the map, a small part of Turkey is in Europe. Just like in the real world.



  • If this happens, Japan needs to seriously consider getting transports to South America.  It’s worth another 8 bucks a turn!  Minor complex in Peru and it’s ALL YOURS.  THE AXIS WILL RULE THE WORLD! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!



  • I thought Allies didn’t get all other true neutrals do they? I thought they were independent of each other?

    Krieg is this true?



  • bulgaria touches turky



  • @SgtBlitz:

    So like everyone else here, I’ve been enjoying the hell out of the new political rules and Axis and Allies wonderland that is AAG40.  It is turning out to be one hell of a game, with umpteen zillion different strategies and maneuvers to be tried out yet.  I haven’t had a chance to try out this particular idea yet, but it seems like it might really be something worth trying, especially for:

    Helping out Italy in the Middle East
    Opening a second front in Russia
    Widening a corridor to India
    Holding Gibraltar to protect the Med

    I’m gonna try this soon, but I do see one slight danger, you are spreading out thin and if one or two attacks (say, in the North Sea against the RN fail then you might have a problem). Or if France refuses to fall, which almost happened in my first game when Germany allocated its planes elsewhere in G1.



  • All of the strict Neutrals become pro allied,  The allies still have to send units to active them and then, those units can still only be used the following turn because it is a non-cmbat move into a pro-neutral.  The Allies will receive the income on their collect income phase but that is about it.

    It almost seems like the secondary benefit to Germany for using this strategy is that it will pull forces AWAY from Germany for a turn.  So yes the Allies will receive a few extra Infantry but they will be arriving later in the Battle.

    If anyone tries this I would like to hear about it.  I am playing my first game on Sunday and I am thinking I will be either Germany or Japan as I have the most experience with A&A in my gamming group.  Any suggesttions would be great.


  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    I’ve thought about this, but to be honest, it’s a better American strategy.

    American or British forces can land in SPAIN in one move from an NB.  If you add a NB to SPAIN then you can shuck back and forth every turn.  Landing combined allied units.

    The best part is, MOST of the now pro Axis neutrals, like in Africa or S.A. there is limited access too.  And the axis still HAVE to go there, etc.  Plus German loses the N.O. if you hit Sweden.

    Even better because France has more then one territory touching spain,  The axis has to clump to one side or the other, It’ terribly dificult to defend against, especially with british advancing ground and amphibous units, with american support.  Italy is directly under threat almost immediately.

    So what if the axis pick up a few inf in turkey, swe, and Switz,  I don’t think it’s enough to warrant against the fact that america can dump on you in one move.  thus, every turn.

    Once Russia is in the war too, what are they going to do?

    Certainly worth considering for either side.



  • Great idea Gargantua.  I may actually try this.  Preventing the U.S.A. from taking Spain might be the best reason FOR Germany to take Spain.

    You’ll have to come up for a name of this maneuver, like the “American Express” or the Spainish conection!



  • @Daedelus:

    Great idea Gargantua.  I may actually try this.  Preventing the U.S.A. from taking Spain might be the best reason FOR Germany to take Spain.

    You’ll have to come up for a name of this maneuver, like the “American Express” or the Spainish conection!

    …or something like…“OPERATION GERMAN DIAPHRAM”…good god! 😐



  • @Gargantua:

    I’ve thought about this, but to be honest, it’s a better American strategy.

    American or British forces can land in SPAIN in one move from an NB.  If you add a NB to SPAIN then you can shuck back and forth every turn.  Landing combined allied units.

    The best part is, MOST of the now pro Axis neutrals, like in Africa or S.A. there is limited access too.  And the axis still HAVE to go there, etc.  Plus German loses the N.O. if you hit Sweden.

    Even better because France has more then one territory touching spain,  The axis has to clump to one side or the other, It’ terribly dificult to defend against, especially with british advancing ground and amphibous units, with american support.  Italy is directly under threat almost immediately.

    So what if the axis pick up a few inf in turkey, swe, and Switz,  I don’t think it’s enough to warrant against the fact that america can dump on you in one move.  thus, every turn.

    Once Russia is in the war too, what are they going to do?

    Certainly worth considering for either side.

    Germany does not lose the NO if it takes Sweden (Axis Controlled).  The Allies would have an easier time taking either Norway or Denmark to screw up that NO.


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10



  • @13thguardsriflediv:

    @SgtBlitz:

    So like everyone else here, I’ve been enjoying the hell out of the new political rules and Axis and Allies wonderland that is AAG40.  It is turning out to be one hell of a game, with umpteen zillion different strategies and maneuvers to be tried out yet.  I haven’t had a chance to try out this particular idea yet, but it seems like it might really be something worth trying, especially for:

    Helping out Italy in the Middle East
    Opening a second front in Russia
    Widening a corridor to India
    Holding Gibraltar to protect the Med

    I’m gonna try this soon, but I do see one slight danger, you are spreading out thin and if one or two attacks (say, in the North Sea against the RN fail then you might have a problem). Or if France refuses to fall, which almost happened in my first game when Germany allocated its planes elsewhere in G1.

    Yep.  That goes without saying.  It’s also possible that at least one of these attacks is going to get diced as well.  But, by trying this move out you are officially declaring you are the Axis player with the biggest balls in history.



  • I tried your G3 neutral crush, however I was playing Europe 1940, not global, and I have a few notes.  The only variation I played here was if UK fell, they didn’t surrender all of their money and kept playing with Canada as its new capital (which actually worked out very well and stayed balanced).

    As Germany, I purchased 2 transports and 2 submarines (in hindsight, a cruiser might also have been a good buy, or a bomber just the same).  I used all my planes in some sort of naval combat coupled with submarines and the surface fleet.  I got lucky with the dice (but I did also plan out the attacks well) and eliminated every UK fleet in the Atlantic except for the carrier and the other ship at Gibraltar and the one off the coast of South America.  In turn I lost 2 submarines and 1 fighter from the combat.  All of my planes landed in Holland afterwards.  I had to make sure all my transports would be in the baltic rather than the atlantic side of Denmark because 3 fighters vs 1 damaged battleship and a cruiser  (2 subs there but the UK planes cant hit them) could easily be taken out and lost all 3 transports and ruined Sealion.  Anyways, the ground forces moved into Paris and left Normandy alone for round 2.  Also, I invaded Yugoslavia with the Infantry from Southern Germany and any tanks that couldn’t reach Paris this round (was 3 of them and 1 artillery).

    UK countered with 9 infantry in London and did the Taranto raid on Italy, though they lacked much teeth after that and just kind of hung out in the med with the French ships to cancel Italy’s NO.

    G2 I landed a successful Sealion with 3 transports, using something like 3 infantry and 3 artillery.  I lost 3 infantry, 2 artillery and 2 more fighters.  We decided to then do the alternate capital for the UK and Germany just went up 6 IPCs with no IPC spoils. This is where I saw an opportunity to do the Neutral crush.  UK had no transports on the board except for from the med which now retreated to the Red Sea and the horn of Africa, Russia and the USA were not in the game yet and can’t capture neutrals while still being Neutral.  So I decided to set up for Turkey and Spain, while Sweden would come in time since it was safe from Capture, I also noticed if I played it right I could get units into Iraq on G4 and hit Persia/Saudi Arabia if necessary with the extra infantry.  Units from Yugoslavia moved into Bulgaria to be ready for Turkey while Italy didn’t make a move yet for Egypt they remained in the Eastern Med for support from their 1 remaining transport.  All of the Paris units would take Normandy then G3 would do Spain.

    Fast forward to G5 or 6 (can’t remember now that I am on the computer), Germany had a small factory in Yugo for the Russia push (never got around to doing the Afrika Korps NO) but started to struggle a little with units on the Russian front.  I still think Russia would start losing ground but they had Leningrad stocked up really well.  I do know that I was 1 turn from taking the Stalingrad factory, thanks to an Italian factory in Turkey (yeah they took it when I meant for them to soften Turkey up for Germany).  USA landed in Portugal and Morocco.  most of the german subs have retreated due to USA weilding 5 destroyers in the Atlantic with a couple bombers for support.  Interestingly enough, the UK’s carrier lived long enough to regroup with the South America cruiser and retreated to the US coastline, then grouped up with a token UK fleet built from Quebec.  They should be now getting back into the fight here soon enough.  Italy did so well against Turkey that when it came time for Egypt, they fell flat on their face.  only making 22 with not a single NO (french destroyer still hanging out at Gibraltar after fending off 3 german subs) has been difficult to spend any money on a fleet outside of a sub or two to eventually clear out the med.

    All in all?  I hit so many neutrals and early enough that I made my money back, the downside is that I have a very very long coastline to now defend from the awakened giant.  And every unit I build in Normany, France or London is one less unit vs Russia on the shrinking German stacks of Infantry and Tanks.  I utilized my airforce so much that it now only consists of 1 bomber, 3 Tacs (but one is in London for helping take out ships with the subs) and 1 fighter.  Overall I am optomistic about winning once Stalingrad falls and I rebuild a stack in Germany to push back, but I may have to let the Allies take Spain or UK just so I am spending money on one less place.

    In short, does the strategy work?  I would say yes under the condition you take out all of the UK transports, still have a decent Air Force and you get a good stack ready to march into Turkey and Spain.  Sweden was easier with 3 transports but I also had to use Infantry gained from Finland that were already earmarked for the Baltic campaign.  I think when we quit, Germany was making 76 a turn with 2 NOs and Italy with 22 a turn, UK with 22 or so and Russia at 24.  everyone is so worried about the allies picking up a handful of free infantry when they really dont have the infrastructure to pick them up, atleast not for 2-3 turns if not more, in which Germany can make 7 IPCS extra a turn, (+1 for Portugal if you get there, +2 for Iraq and +2 more for Saudi).



  • That Sealion had a 45% chance of victory if you put in tacs as bombers, and 58% if you have the BB and CC bombard. The fact that unpaired tacs reduce to 3 make the odds about 50%. And even if you do take it, the US will not have a hard time retaking it(especially in Global where the Major fatcory becomes a minor)



  • didnt read them akk but the us cant attack neutrals until in the war, so they can not attack spain and the british have no transports in range if you use your subs and planes wisley. And I find if you build a german aircraft carrier t1 germany you really suppress the british, finish the french and then quickly prepare for the red front. the us make to much money that cant be hurt to waist much time.



  • Ah man, you were playing with the alternate capital rule for the British.  It’d be a much different game with the Brits KO’d out of the war for that entire time (plus that one turn with UK’s money!).  Glad to hear the Neutral attacks worked out.  Do you still hold London in your game?


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