If the Japan isn’t aggressive enough the UK-East can send resources stalling or completely stopping that Italian advance in Africa/Middle East. If America decides to send a fleet into the med the same thing can happen. Germany, Italy and Japan need to plan together. I’ve played far too many games with a conservative Germany while playing an aggressive Japan or conservative Japan while playing aggressive Germany.
An Easy Italian Fix
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It appears the Italy fleet raid was intended.
From Larry’s forums: http://www.harrisgamedesign.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2537&start=8
@Striker:I’ll be interested in hearing a reply from Larry or a playtester that says either “Yes, we intended that to be a possible opening move for Britain, duh.” or “Woops, we might have made and oversight there.”
Yes, we intended that to be a possible opening move for Britain, duh.
The key words here are “intended”, which is what you choose to use; the other is “possible”, which is what Krieghund used. I think this game was very well playtested(other than AAP40 aircraft that can effect the Euro side). The play testers made all sorts of things “possible” to give players many interesting things to think about. I think the UK spending its naval assets like that in the Med is a foolish move…they dont have much in the way of navy after G1 and do not have many IPC’s to re-build a serious task force…as well, they have non-navel demands on their IPC’s. Dont do it, its a trap!
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The british should do the Italian raid every game, and NCM the carrier to the french fleet. Most of the time the UK will with with 1 tac, 1 ftr to land on the carrier. If the germans want to attack 1 DD, 1 CA, 1 CV, 1 Tac, 1 Ftr with air, than so be it- they will lose 2-3 aircraft in the first round, with another 1-2 in the second round (depending on how many hits the germans get). If the German airforce is depleted that much, then subsequent UK builds are much safer.
Of course if the Germans build 1 CV, 2 Transports round 1, then the Tac will be needed in the defense of Great Britain…
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The british should do the Italian raid every game, and NCM the carrier to the french fleet. Most of the time the UK will with with 1 tac, 1 ftr to land on the carrier. If the germans want to attack 1 DD, 1 CA, 1 CV, 1 Tac, 1 Ftr with air, than so be it- they will lose 2-3 aircraft in the first round, with another 1-2 in the second round (depending on how many hits the germans get). If the German airforce is depleted that much, then subsequent UK builds are much safer.
Of course if the Germans build 1 CV, 2 Transports round 1, then the Tac will be needed in the defense of Great Britain…
They WILL lose 2-3 aircraft? I don’t think so. The dice, as I’ve said for the umpteenth time, can be very unpredictable.
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The british should do the Italian raid every game, and NCM the carrier to the french fleet. Most of the time the UK will with with 1 tac, 1 ftr to land on the carrier. If the germans want to attack 1 DD, 1 CA, 1 CV, 1 Tac, 1 Ftr with air, than so be it- they will lose 2-3 aircraft in the first round, with another 1-2 in the second round (depending on how many hits the germans get). If the German airforce is depleted that much, then subsequent UK builds are much safer.
Of course if the Germans build 1 CV, 2 Transports round 1, then the Tac will be needed in the defense of Great Britain…
Last week several of us here played out that scenario and it ended badly for the Allies. Its worth it for Germany to lose 2-3 aircraft to help the Italians clear the Med. Depending on the first round die rolls, the Germans need not finish the job, they can leave that to the Italians who have 1CA, 1DD, 2FTR’s to mop up.
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Yes, but is it worse for Italy to rule the med with 2 Transports from turn 1? I think you lose Cairo pretty fast- and thus lose Africa- killing UK’s income (and hence fleet making abilities).
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Yes, but is it worse for Italy to rule the med with 2 Transports from turn 1? I think you lose Cairo pretty fast- and thus lose Africa- killing UK’s income (and hence fleet making abilities).
Italy should take Egypt anyway. Our game did’nt get that far. I had only 1 TRS(took Transjordan), but the UK had to evacuate Egypt or lose everything there on I2. I would rally all UK remaining ships probably off the coast of S. Africa(IC to add stuff to the fleet), bring the CA, TRS in the Med south, the CA off the coast of S. America, DD already at S. Africa…any UK naval units from the Pacific…that would be: 1CV(FTR/TAC), 2CA’s, 2DD’s, 1TRS, plus Pacific side assets that I wont list since that depends on Japan…then add what would probably be 2+ SUBs and 1 or 2 more TRS…now you have a task force and can go where you want without much fear.
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So, if we go with this, when does Italy go to war if Paris doesn’t fall?
Can it stay out of the war indefinitely?
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No Italy is at war on HER first turn. She is not at war on UK’s turn.
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UK should be able to attack anyone she sees as a threat. Hell, they can attack Japan on ANY turn.
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Italy should be neutral until France falls, if they haven’t declared war by turn 3 then they must declare war against the allies, and no allies can attack Italy until it is at war.
This is just to fully explain people’s options in the game but the obvious thing for Italy to do is attack as soon as it is able. Otherwise they’re only making 10 IPCs a turn and they need more income than that. This rule could also be a bit of an answer to people’s complaint about the UK Atlantic fleet getting wiped out G1. Since Germany has a strong incentive to bring Italy into the war ASAP it might want to commit more aircraft to the battle for Paris than it would otherwise. This would leave more UK boats left alive in the Atlantic.
Plus the attack on the Italian fleet is not a real risk for the UK. Even if it loses everything in the Med, it can rebuild it. It has the income to do that at the beginning of the game. Hell, even if they don’t have the income, the USA just has to commit a bit more resources to supplement the UK’s Atlantic fleet. If the Italians lose half their fleet they will NEVER be able to rebuild it. They need a strong initial fleet to capture Africa and get bonus objectives to make more income. They need more income to rebuild a navy. You see this vicious cycle. And say what you want about the random chance of dice, but, statistically, the UK should make this move every game. They have a 95% chance of wiping out the Italian boats and only a 9% chance of having nothing left themselves.
The only way to counter this is for Germany to make a massive Sea Lion buy it’s first turn. This is before it even knows what the UK is going to do. If the UK moves it’s carrier, tac bomber, and destroyer to z110 it then renders Germany’s buy absolutely moot and a complete waste. This will also waste an entire turn for Germany because it should have been making buys against the Soviet Union and now it needs to wait until it has sufficient forces to hit Russia.
So you are left with these two options as the Axis. You either lose half the Italian navy and leave it crippled for the rest of the game or waste an insane amount of time and resources with Germany. Given the fact that this game is about the Axis making large gains in the first few turns, it seems completely counter to the purpose and intent of the game overall.
The easiest way to fix all of this is to simply leave Italy neutral until its turn after the fall of France. Bam! Fixed.
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Just roll the dice correctly and you will win each time……bamb…fixed
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