Convoy disruption relay

Why wouldn’t it work that way? More subs means more ability to block convoy traffic.

No, it costs Germany 3 IPCs per turn.  The damage is capped at the total IPC value of the controlled territories that touch the convoy sea zone.  Only Norway touches that sea zone.

The damage is capped at the total IPC value of the controlled territories that touch the convoy sea zone.

Holy smokes they used my house rule! I proposed this idea back in the AARHE days.

@13thguardsriflediv:

That would be ‘an entire turn of play’ then? Not an individual nation’s turn?

Convoy disruption occurs during the collect income phase.  On Germany’s turn, the 3 subs and the french destroyer would disrupt and drop Germany’s income by 3 IPCs.  Germany’s collect income phase does not occur on the US turn, the Soviet turn, the UK turn, or the French turn.

Yeah, what he said!

I have a question about convoy disruptions though… from the way I read that errata to the P40 rules it seems like there has to be " a ship from a country that you are at war with" in the sea zone for the disruption to occur.  Does that mean that only submarines can do convoy disruptions because if any other type of ship could not be in a seazone with an enemy ship?

IL, the convoy rule is similar to the old AAP convoys…  they would only deny the total IPCs of the territory.  So, not exactly your rule.

IL, the convoy rule is similar to the old AAP convoys…  they would only deny the total IPCs of the territory.  So, not exactly your rule.

I guess you never played AAP then. In that game the convoy boxes all have numbers that show the amount of IPC that a player loses. In some all cases the boxes have nothing to do with the attached land territories value. MY RULE was this was limited by the IPC of the adjacent territory. And so this number could be any number rather than a fixed 3, 4 , 5 or 10.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/23998/axis-allies-pacific?size=original

No, I wasn’t talking about the British Convoys I was talking about the territory convoys (they have no IPC value next to them- only the IPC value of the associated territory)- if I moved an Allied warship next to a Japanese controlled Java, Japan does not get the IPCs from Java. The Allied warship interdicted the ‘convoy’ from the Java to Japan.  Therefore Japan does not get the 4 IPCs from Java.

And yes, I have played AAP a lot actually.  It is my favorite A&A game and most realistic in my opinion.  Have you played it?

That must be the issue. I’m talking about how the convoy boxes have a fixed value as to what they cause in damage. You control that box in either AAE or AAP and the enemy loses a fixed amount thats printed inside of the box. You are talking about convoy routes from AAP

You are talking about the convoy routes. And really looking at how the original AAE concept of convoy boxes, changed into this new system where the boxes don’t have a fixed printed value but a variable value based only on the adjacent land territory.

http://www.wizards.com/avalonhill/rules/axispacific.pdf

Convoy Centers: There are also five sea zones that
contain convoy centers – each indicated by a rectangular
area, as well as a USA or British convoy
icon. The white number that appears with each
convoy center represents its IPC value. Convoy
centers represent the many supply convoys heading
into the Pacific from around the world. All
are subject to attack by Japanese submarines and
warships, as explained on page 22.

Convoy Centers
If Japan takes control of a US convoy center, then
the United States’ National Production level is
reduced by the amount shown on the center. If
Japan takes control of a British convoy center,
then the British convoy center’s National
Production level is reduced by the amount shown
on the center.

Convoy Routes
If a convoy route is captured and the enemy controls
the associated territory then the enemy’s
National Production level is decreased. The capturing
player does not increase his National
Production level.
If a convoy route is captured and you or a friendly
player controls the associated territory then the
nation controlling the territory increases its
National Production level.

The difference relates only to whom controls the boxes and how the IPC are reduced: before it was fixed, now like MY idea and in AARHE it is variable and based on the value of the territory. Also perhaps this was not addressed but in AARHE if the territory changes hands the convoy box is now subject to attacks by the other side in the same fashion… it can ‘flip’ Hopefully it works just like AARHE which allows this.

In Global 40 they go by Convoy Boxes and apply the rules from this, except the FIXED value is not used, Like my AARHE concept and instead tied to the value of the attached land territory (up to that value).

It is my favorite A&A game and most realistic in my opinion.  Have you played it?

Yes many times ( but i only got 7 copies) except when we play we go by the rules, so when for example i take that convoy box that USA owns for 10 IPC, I cost them that much even though there are not 10 IPC’s in any adjacent attached land territory. Also, when UK loses its 5 IPC box, it has nothing to do with any areas attached.

are we arguing the same thing here?  I understand there is a difference in the convoy boxes (with fixed values) and convoy routes (associated with a territory value), they are not tied together.  Those convoy zones can be interdicted by either side if their respective enemy holds the territory.

I guess the difference with AAG40 is that you have to have a DD (1 IPC) or a SS (2 IPC) up to the territory value (In the convoy route)- not just a warship for the whole value (as in AAP).  At least in AAP40 there are no convoy boxes with fixed values, only convoy routes.

I’m not sure what your idea was now.  I thought you said convoy ‘zones’ were your idea- I just said they were in AAP.

No i said the convoy disruption was no longer fixed, but based entirely on the associated IPC values of adjacent land territories.

IN AAP40 you only need to occupy the box, but instead of a fixed value you lose, its based on the TT, like AARHE. IN AARHE their are no fixed convoy box values and you can flip them and they become your problem when you take over the territory ( allowing the original owner to attack was was formerly his own convoy boxes).

@Bruda_Iz:

I have a question about convoy disruptions though… from the way I read that errata to the P40 rules it seems like there has to be " a ship from a country that you are at war with" in the sea zone for the disruption to occur.  Does that mean that only submarines can do convoy disruptions because if any other type of ship could not be in a seazone with an enemy ship?

No.  It is theoretically possible to end a turn with unfriendly ships in a seazone with your units.  All it requires is placement of units, as no power “controls” a seazone.  America could have warships off SZ6 that japan failed to destroy during combat and those ships will disrupt income, after Japan has placed warships in SZ 6 during the place unit phase.

while that is a possibility its not going to happen very often… and it will only happen that way in SZs with an adjacent IC.

I get the feeling that convoy disruption isnt going to happen very often because its dependant on an enemy warship being in the SZ.  I dont think people will leave a ship in a SZ if it means that their income will be affected unless there is no other option.  Is convoy disruption something that people actually make part of their strategy or is it just an opportunisitic way of depriving your enemy of IPC’s every now and then.  I’m curious to see how this has been used in the game.

Well if your using subs for convoy raids they enemy needs dd’s to get rid of them. It seems to be a game w/in the game for Germany/UK. The other way to raid convoys is by super stack ships in the enemy convoy zones. It could be costly for both sides, but you may do it to just reduce the enemy air/ships.

but you could only superstack subs because surface warships would cause a combat.  It does look it will come into play more in the German/UK conflict though because of the limited number of spaces to put your ships.

Convoys can really hurt the UK around England. UK India doesn’t have a lot of $, so a Jap fleet just sitting at India sz, or the UK owned Dutch isles can be costly. Then there’s sz 80 around the Mid East, or the Med w/Italy by Egypt. The UK may not have the forces to keep all these clear.