German IC's



  • For the lucky few who have already played Europe, has Germany ever bought any new IC’s? There are certainly quite a few 2 and 3 IPC territories close to Russia where a factory could be useful, but is it worth Germany’s money to shell out the cash on IC’s instead of units? In the long run, a factory in Romania/Ukraine (if the Germans capture it) would allow Germany to invest in infantry instead of mechs to accompany the tanks which would be built in the west. A Finland minor IC could also be useful to threaten Leningrad, perhaps along with the remnants of a Sealion transport fleet. This sounds pretty good to me on paper/pixels, but does anyone with experience have any insight into the usefulness of new German IC’s?



  • I’m not sure if I would prefer it to 2 tanks, 3 mech/art or 4 inf



  • I haven’t played yet, but a minor IC in Romania could be useful for two reasons:

    (i) Allows production (probably infantry) on the Southern end of the front, away from where the main German force is collecting and heading; and

    (ii) Allows the production of sea units in SZ100. Building sea units in the Med is important for Germany for three reasons:

    (a) can build a sub which will survive longer in the game than the Atlantic U-boats and can deny the UK one NO; and

    (b) you can build a transport and get German men to Egypt, gaining a NO.

    © You might also like to have the option of building ships to support the Italians if the US heads for the Med.

    It might be an appropriate G2 or G3 purchase.



  • @Bodeacious:

    I haven’t played yet, but a minor IC in Romania could be useful for two reasons:

    (i) Allows production (probably infantry) on the Southern end of the front, away from where the main German force is collecting and heading; and

    (ii) Allows the production of sea units in SZ100. Building sea units in the Med is important for Germany for three reasons:

    (a) can build a sub which will survive longer in the game than the Atlantic U-boats and can deny the UK one NO; and

    (b) you can build a transport and get German men to Egypt, gaining a NO.

    © You might also like to have the option of building ships to support the Italians if the US heads for the Med.

    It might be an appropriate G2 or G3 purchase.

    Romania doesn’t border the Med. Anyway, Baltic subs are harder to kill than Med subs



  • Yeah, but Romania allows you to build a sub in the Black sea, then the allies would have to build their own IC, or invade Turkey to get a dd in the Black Sea to kill your sub. I wonder if this came up in testing the game?



  • @WILD:

    Yeah, but Romania allows you to build a sub in the Black sea, then the allies would have to build their own IC, or invade Turkey to get a dd in the Black Sea to kill your sub. I wonder if this came up in testing the game?

    Okay, that sub can’t leave the Black Sea and it can’t do anything as no ships will be put there. You spend 18 ipc’s to deny 5 ipcs. And you don’t even need that. Put a sub in the Baltic. Unless Allies take Denmark, it won’t die.



  • You spend 18 ipcs(one time) to deny 5 ipcs(a turn) so it may be worth it over the long run.



  • @Striker:

    You spend 18 ipcs(one time) to deny 5 ipcs(a turn) so it may be worth it over the long run.

    But you don’t need to build a sub in the Black Sea. Build it in the Baltic



  • Couldn’t Russia just attack that sub in the Black Sea with fighters?  I thought fighters get one attack before the sub can submerge.

    Depending on the dice, really Russia would be destroying 6 German IPC’s a turn.



  • @Seven_Patch:

    Couldn’t Russia just attack that sub in the Black Sea with fighters?  I thought fighters get one attack before the sub can submerge.

    Depending on the dice, really Russia would be destroying 6 German IPC’s a turn.

    planes can’t attack subs without a destroyer


  • '12

    @Seven_Patch:

    Couldn’t Russia just attack that sub in the Black Sea with fighters?  I thought fighters get one attack before the sub can submerge.

    Depending on the dice, really Russia would be destroying 6 German IPC’s a turn.

    Only in Classic and Revised (ugh) can a plane attack a sub without a destroyer.



  • Dare I say……
    Factory in Finland?



  • I still ahven’t played.

    While a Minor IC in Finland could be useful. I think it would become close to obsolete once the IC in Novgorod is taken (I assume pretty quickly once the Germans start of on the Western front).

    Finland is adjacent to Norway, so might be particularly useful for defending Norway, especially if transports have been smashed in the Baltic. I suspect that it will take a few games by a lot of people before we know if there is any benefit.

    I personally belive that a 12 IPC investment into a Minor IC that is not at risk of being taken over any time soon can be a sound investment if you gain a positional advantage. 4 men vs the ability to build what you want within distance of a strategic objective can be defended on many grounds.

    It’s all just speculation at this point.



  • Look at it this way, atleast to me.

    I can build a minor IC to build 3 inf on the front line a turn for 12, then in following turns buy the inf.

    OR

    I can buy 3 mech inf that turn, and each following turn.

    The minor IC will save me 3 IPC a turn for an equal value unit that will hit the front line at (roughly) the same time with less mobility when it gets there.  Without mech inf, I could see building them.  With mech inf, no, i doubt I would other than possibly a major in southern france for some med fleet action with the Italians.  Between G and I trading Gibralter the allies would have a really hard time getting in there.  Or a minor in the other territory with Mediterranean access.



  • I totally agree with you.

    I just think that there are often times when you would be more likely to build, say, three bombers (just an example) on the front line, that can smash anything up to Russia (Russia, if there is an airfield).

    I’m leaning towards Yugoslavia because it balances the need for production in the Med with closeness to the front line.

    I also think there could be a good use for an airfield near the soviet front, probably in Barsarabia (sic?). That way, mechs/tanks can get from Yugoslavia to Barb in one, to defend the airbase.



  • @moralecheck:

    @Seven_Patch:

    Couldn’t Russia just attack that sub in the Black Sea with fighters?  I thought fighters get one attack before the sub can submerge.

    Depending on the dice, really Russia would be destroying 6 German IPC’s a turn.

    Only in Classic and Revised (ugh) can a plane attack a sub without a destroyer.

    Ah okay, I knew I wasn’t crazy.  I’ve been playing by the Revised rules.  Guess I should have read the Pacific rule book a little closer.

    Personally I’m inclined to think that a Squadern of fighters/naval bombers could potentially eliminate a pack of U-boats.  Subs can’t stay submerged forever and have to come up, fighters could get a limited chance to drop a torpedo bomb.

    Maybe a house rule could be Fighters attack at a 1 or 2 against subs and only get one roll of the dice.



  • What about building an airbase too in the same area as the IC (whether Romania, Finland or Norway)?

    That way you can deploy some inf there, AND parachute them away (if you have the tech).

    Imagine soviet on the offensive v Germany, and you have no factory in Romania… Bye, bye IPCs, Italy, Yogo, Greece, etc… I think a factory in Romania is crucial, as the distance to the south of Soviet is too far from West Germany and Germany. I like the Yogoslavia idea, though, as you can put stuff in the water.



  • @calvinhobbesliker:

    @WILD:

    Yeah, but Romania allows you to build a sub in the Black sea, then the allies would have to build their own IC, or invade Turkey to get a dd in the Black Sea to kill your sub. I wonder if this came up in testing the game?

    Okay, that sub can’t leave the Black Sea and it can’t do anything as no ships will be put there. You spend 18 ipc’s to deny 5 ipcs. And you don’t even need that. Put a sub in the Baltic. Unless Allies take Denmark, it won’t die.

    First off I wouldn’t build the IC in Romania to get a sub in the Black Sea. I would build an IC in Romania to get inf to the front. Being able to drop a sub in the Black Sea would just be bonus!!! :evil: I would do it just to see the allies try to figure out how to get rid of it.

    Edit: It would take them a min of 3 turns, if they build IC, or 2 turns if they go through Turkey. The distraction alone is worth it for $6.



  • @Striker:

    You spend 18 ipcs(one time) to deny 5 ipcs(a turn) so it may be worth it over the long run.

    No, you spend 6 IPCs one time to deny 5 IPCs each turn. The IC will be used to deploy new romanians as well

    The trick would be buying the Romanian IC just to deploy infs there (It’s handy), and only buy the sub after the Baltic fleet and all the other subs are destroyed. It’s really sneaky  :lol: I guess that the only options for allies would be attacking Turkey or buying a soviet dd at Black Sea hoping that Luftwaffe (or other axis planes!) will not kill the dd … none of both seem very good



  • Forget the soviet dd … the IC is inland, at Stalingrad. Yep, it seems another bug  😛



  • Too bad there’s not a convoy zone there too (Black Sea). You could really cost Russia $ with a sub.



  • Actually, the one who owns the black sea can threathen alot of territories:

    Caucasus, Rostov, Ukraine, Bessarabia, Romania, Bulgaria, Greece (!) and ofcourse Turkey.

    Imagine a Soviet factory in Caucasus, pushing out sone ships into the black sea. They can threathen many German areas behind the front. Ofcourse the Luftwaffe can deal with this fleet, but that takes resources away.

    On the other side, more likely, Germany can put some transports in the water here, and “jump” behind Soviet lines.

    Perhaps to creative, but still - what fun!


  • '12

    @Seven_Patch:

    @moralecheck:

    @Seven_Patch:

    Couldn’t Russia just attack that sub in the Black Sea with fighters?  I thought fighters get one attack before the sub can submerge.

    Depending on the dice, really Russia would be destroying 6 German IPC’s a turn.

    Only in Classic and Revised (ugh) can a plane attack a sub without a destroyer.

    Ah okay, I knew I wasn’t crazy.  I’ve been playing by the Revised rules.  Guess I should have read the Pacific rule book a little closer.

    Personally I’m inclined to think that a Squadern of fighters/naval bombers could potentially eliminate a pack of U-boats.  Subs can’t stay submerged forever and have to come up, fighters could get a limited chance to drop a torpedo bomb.

    Maybe a house rule could be Fighters attack at a 1 or 2 against subs and only get one roll of the dice.

    Nah, the subs need the defense.  The problem is in these games that fighters from the UK or USA can reach half way acrross the atlantic (which is fine for game reasons, but the subs needed a balance). UK has a lot of slow turns which would spell the end for the helpless subs.  It’s why no one buys them in AAC or AAR.  The (ugh) was because a lot of people tried to tell Mike Selinker this (he said so in his commentaries) but the rule change still happened.  The shore bombardment rules took a step backward in that game, too.  And if you play that game with national advantages the USA can get heavy bombers that can’t be hit by AA guns.  And then there were the skinny panthers…see you got me started on AAR. I’m gonna stop now and simply say I’m glad AA42 came along so quickly, it shows someone was paying attention.



  • @Seven_Patch:

    Ah okay, I knew I wasn’t crazy.  I’ve been playing by the Revised rules.  Guess I should have read the Pacific rule book a little closer.

    This might explain why in that other thread you didn’t understand why the transports were left at the end of a battle?  I hope you’re also aware that transports cannot be selected as casualties until all other units are destroyed.  So what used to be fodder in Revised naval battles must now be protected to the last.



  • Upon futher reflection on the map, I could see a major IC purchase for Romania being worth its weight in gold.  Buying mainly mechs from it, then moving to Ukraine with a small force of Italians will allow you to use the classic can opener threat from AA50.  Could be a good buy on G2 with the spare funds, or even on G1 if you really wanted to for a strong push on Russia G3.


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