Japan-Soviet Non-Aggression-Pact


  • '10

    Why should Russia early attack Japan? Will Russia, or one of his Allies get any advantages from that attack? (China maybe…)

    Why should Japan crush the russian infantry masses? The way through siberia is much longer, then through china. And the main operation targets are China, India and the south-west pacific.

    I think the best way is a non-aggression-pact like 1941. Both sides are free to talk about the conditions (for example no jap industrial complex in Manchuria vs. no soviet infantry in Amur).

    I think an early war is too risky for both sides.

    Don’t trust the dices!

    Russia may loose vital IPC from the far east, or japan looses aircrafts, urgently needed in the pacific.



  • So you’re advocating the Russian and Japanese players work out a Non-Aggression pact of their own?

    What about Russia wanting to be able to get extra IPCs from Persia and Iraq in the Middle East?  Though I suppose since Russia can declare war without attacking Japan the Russian player could declare war and still negotiate a pact with the Japanese player…

    What about the Russian player wanting to help their Allies in the Pacific or the Japanese player wanting to help the Axis in Europe to keep Russia from getting their NO?  This is why we needed an NO for Russia or Japan or both to encourage them to not fight each other (like Germany actually gets for not attacking Russia) since we don’t have individual victory conditions for each nation.



  • Russia would be foolish NOT to attack Japan early on.  Not on R1, but it’s a definite option on R2.  If Russia moves all 18 Infantry into Amur, Japan cannot ignore it.  At the very least, it changes (if not derails) an attempt at a J3 India Crush.  Pushing into Korea (or Korea and Manchuria both) hurts Japan, badly.  Japan cannot afford to lose any IPCs that early in the game.

    Say Russia hits the whole front (9 Infantry each in Manchuria and Korea).  Average, Russia will take both and have around 5-6 infantry each sitting there- even with Japan’s air power, that’s still not an easy fight to get them back.  And as always, anything that buys India more time hurts Japan.



  • Does Japan have to take India if they can drop mech and tanks up in Siberia after all the Russian infantry move into Korea and Manchuria?  They just blitz their way across all those 1 IPC territories and hamstring the Russian economy.  Who cares about India when you can take Moscow so much more easily that way?



  • Just one quick notice:

    Sino means China, not Japan.


  • '10

    THX. Changed it.



  • @SAS:

    Does Japan have to take India if they can drop mech and tanks up in Siberia after all the Russian infantry move into Korea and Manchuria?  They just blitz their way across all those 1 IPC territories and hamstring the Russian economy.  Who cares about India when you can take Moscow so much more easily that way?

    Yeah. Moscow is 7-9 territories away and you have to go through 15 inf. India is worth 8, Russia is worth 9 to Japan. Add to India parts of China, Burma, etc, and India is the better way to go



  • To Japan, but what about when the Germans take over the rest of the country and the Allies are down by a major power rather than a minor power?  Again, we don’t have individual victory conditions, so whatever is best for the Axis all around is the best way to go for Japan.

    Those Russian territories are more easily defended by Japan as well in comparison to India.  If the Russians move everything into Manchuria and Korea, Japan just focuses on taking those Russian territories first and moves down after India after it has secured them.


  • '10

    @ll:

    Russia would be foolish NOT to attack Japan early on.  Not on R1, but it’s a definite option on R2.  If Russia moves all 18 Infantry into Amur, Japan cannot ignore it.  …

    That’s a point, but don’t forget some japanese advantages:

    Amphibious assault from Japan with navy bombardment, Tac-Bomber/Figther Combination and the three regular Bombers in Range.

    Infantry on defence hits only on 2 or less.



  • @marechallannes:

    @ll:

    Russia would be foolish NOT to attack Japan early on.  Not on R1, but it’s a definite option on R2.  If Russia moves all 18 Infantry into Amur, Japan cannot ignore it.  …

    That’s a point, but don’t forget some japanese advantages:

    Amphibious assault from Japan with navy bombardment, Tac-Bomber/Figther Combination and the three regular Bombers in Range.

    Infantry on defence hits only on 2 or less.

    A good point, however, the allies still benefit.  1) Japan is diverting a LOT of resources to retake the north and 2) it gives UK 1-2 Turns more to reinforce India.  It’s not so much about taking Land away from Japan or getting IPCs, it’s about forcing Japan to react and not follow through with her plans.  The biggest thing Japan needs to do is take out/minimize China AND India before the USA comes in.  Prevent them from doing that and the Allies have a BIG advantage.



  • can’t both the north as india be taken, but make china a bit stronger?



  • You can do it, but by the time you turn to China, you’ll have a bitch of a fight.  China may not look tough, but the simple fact they can drop Infantry ANYWHERE in china means you’ll be playing whack a mole for a while.  All the while… the US will be gearing up… so again… same problem applies.



  • I think a previous poster made a great suggestion by saying that Japan and/or Russia should have had a national objective for not attacking one another. This should have been the case esp. for Japan. Then again, Of course all their actual NOs are in the Pacific. Directing too many forces to Russia will make it harder for them to achieve those. On the other hand, it’s almost impossible for Japan to simply ignore the 18 infantry on their doorstep. Especially once the Soviets get some air support to the region, it becomes a huge threat!



  • It is a threat, especially if Russia flies some bombers over, but it is a threat with no backup.  With the rest of the Soviet army several turns away, once you take 18 hits you’re done.  So Russia has to be careful that while it is distracting Japan to win the Battle of the Pacific it doesn’t end up losing the war.



  • how about a penalty to one or both of them
    eather the won that declares war or both of them could be penalized when they are at war
    take away five ipc untill one of them losses thier capital



  • @SAS:

    It is a threat, especially if Russia flies some bombers over, but it is a threat with no backup.  With the rest of the Soviet army several turns away, once you take 18 hits you’re done.  So Russia has to be careful that while it is distracting Japan to win the Battle of the Pacific it doesn’t end up losing the war.

    Does the free 2 inf. per turn rule for Russia apply in the Global game? If so then you could get much more than just 18 hits……



  • @maverick_76:

    @SAS:

    It is a threat, especially if Russia flies some bombers over, but it is a threat with no backup.  With the rest of the Soviet army several turns away, once you take 18 hits you’re done.  So Russia has to be careful that while it is distracting Japan to win the Battle of the Pacific it doesn’t end up losing the war.

    Does the free 2 inf. per turn rule for Russia apply in the Global game? If so then you could get much more than just 18 hits……

    No, it doesn’t



  • @Fighter212:

    how about a penalty to one or both of them
    eather the won that declares war or both of them could be penalized when they are at war
    take away five ipc untill one of them losses thier capital

    Yes that’s true and your air force can be split up half to Pacific half to Asia, it can move in an unstoppable force.



  • As Japan I would attack Russia for a few reasons:

    1. J1 attack on UK, ANZAC, and USA will hurt other Axis in Global so Japan shouldn’t attack on J1 or even J2 (depending on situation).  Other than China and French Indo China, Japan needs other sources of IPC and that would be Russia.

    2. by going on the offensive against Russia, Japan can bring to bear the full force of their airforce and even navy.  even facing a stack of 18 infantry and maybe one fighter, japan can destroy this force with about 10 land units and most of their planes.

    3. by eliminating this stack (or two smaller stacks), Russia will be empty in the east and Japan can then turn most of their forces south and reposition for a J3 attack.


  • '10

    Who guarantees you a victory over 18 russian infs without loosing vital airplanes?



  • As the Japanese player, if I saw the Soviet player begin to move its stacks into Amur during R1, a preemptive attack there on J1 would be assured. The airpower from Manchuria and Japan, coupled with land and amphibious assualt, would prove devasting for the Soviets. Granted, casualties will be high, but I can imagine the Japanese exhausting their land forces before touching the air support.                          The Russian player will need to seize the moment and be extremely resourceful in the Pacific.



  • from what I remember

    Japan can send

    4 bombers, 11 fighters, 8 tactical bombers, 3 artillery, 5 infantry and 1 mechanized infantry.  that’s if japan decides to send all that it can to an amur stack of 18 infantry and maybe 1 fighter.  add 1 battleship and 2 cruiser for bombardment, the first round hit at average would be 17.7 hits vs Russia’s 6.7 hits.



  • That might be a viable strategy to look into, the good ol’ Japan push into Russia. Who knows, if they can do that it would definitely help Germany, but you also would be sacrificing the Pacific to the US and losing your NO bonuses for the islands. Risky but sounding like a sensible angle to take.



  • @shohoku201:

    As Japan I would attack Russia for a few reasons:

    1. J1 attack on UK, ANZAC, and USA will hurt other Axis in Global so Japan shouldn’t attack on J1 or even J2 (depending on situation).  Other than China and French Indo China, Japan needs other sources of IPC and that would be Russia.

    2. by going on the offensive against Russia, Japan can bring to bear the full force of their airforce and even navy.  even facing a stack of 18 infantry and maybe one fighter, japan can destroy this force with about 10 land units and most of their planes.

    3. by eliminating this stack (or two smaller stacks), Russia will be empty in the east and Japan can then turn most of their forces south and reposition for a J3 attack.

    I like that idea, bit do you need to do that, like what happens if you can’t get them out quick enough and everything else could be bad.



  • The Japanese can definitely squish the Russians if they’re foolish enough to stack all 18 troops on the border.  I think the key will be to hold them back one space.  That way, you’re immune to attack, but you still perform your primary task of holding Japanese troops and planes at the border.

    It’s much like Sea Lion.  Barring a serious luck imbalance, the Germans can’t succeed at Sea Lion unless the Brits are foolish enough to let them, but threatening it allows you to force the Brits to react to it and constrain their options.  Similarly, Russia can’t successfully attack Japan if Japan chooses to defend its border, but holding back all of those units is a significant cost for Japan.


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