excellent map once again imp! my only critique is very minor…. wouldn’t it make more sense to have russian units in red and japanese units in yellow?
German Baltic Fleet - Revised
I’ve been practicing playing as Germany on Triple A. I play the Revised edition.
Anyways I wanted to know some basic strategies about what to do with the German fleet.
Should I keep them there or send them out somewhere? I don’t want to leave the transport alone. What do you experienced Germany players do with your Baltic fleet. I’m more keen on building mostly land forces to take down Russia as quickly as possible.
GrizzlyMan last edited by
One of my strategies as Germany is to not move any of my Baltic fleet on G1, and then to build an aircraft carrier and a fighter to bolster the fleet. Then on G2 I can combine them with my Luftwaffe to take out the British fleet (if they haven’t already run away). Then you can build some more transports with safety and conduct operation sealion.
This plan usually works fairly well, and the British have trouble combating it. If they try constructing additional ships or build more land units in UK to defend, they must neglect their forces elsewhere, and the axis can easily take Egypt and India. The biggest problem with this plan (I call it the G3 Sealion) is that it forces you to neglect Russia. If you mobilise your starting troops early, you can defend against the Soviets for several turns, but eventually you’ll need to start sending reinforcements to the east. That’s why it’s important to quickly take out the Royal Navy (don’t get into a war of attrition). I hope that helps
The German Baltic Fleet buy is, in my opinion, at best questionable opening in Revised (In Anniversary 1942, this is an option I would consider). I’ll try to give you a little analysis.
Preliminary note: The Baltic Fleet buy instantly leads to a Kill Germany first game for the Allies. A Kill Japan first (KJF) game with an UK IC buy in India turn 1 is close to impossible because UK cannot match both the German fleet and the Japanese ground troops.
General strategy and opening moves in a Kill Germany first (KGF) game without Baltic Fleet buy:
- Germany pushes hard vs Russia with ground troop builds, tries to gain as much terrain and destroy units as possible, if its final blow fails because of the D-Day, Japan has to take over
- The German sub along with fighter support sinks the British battleship in the med sea
- The Baltic fleet has 3 options which are not really that different because the units usually are dead until UK2: a) stay in starting position and hope to kill a few attacking UK fighters; b) move everything but the transport to SZ7 to force an attack; or c), spread out the subs in the Atlantic
- German troops attack Egypt with bomber support (and pretty often also bid troops in Africa), the German battleship sinks the British destroyer in SZ15 to make a landing of troops from Southern Europe via transport turn 1 possible, this destroys the UK defensive position there and makes it possible for Germany to gain most of Africa and gain income by that.
- Japan, which is mostly ignored by the Allies, gains most of Asia and starts buying mainland ICs to build tanks vs Russia, and possible uses his remaining fleet to either go to the med sea to help Germany, or move to Alaska and Western US to distract the Americans
- Russia attacks 2 of Belorussia, West Russia and Ukraine, most recommended West Russia and Ukraine to kill a German fighter, and tries to keep Germany as far away from Moscow as possible. Pretty often UK helps in Karelia and Archangel, maybe even with fighters and bombers to Moscow and the rest of the UK troops in Asia to slow down the Japs
- UK usually tries to take back Egypt with the troops from India; the India dd sinks the Japanese transport, the Australian troops get shipped via South America to Africa, the British fighters take out the German Navy, UK can land in Algeria (with US together) or Norway, also UK start building up a fleet big enough to stand a German airstrike and then lands troops in Scandinavia, Algeria or helps Russians.
- US mostly ignores the Japs and builds fleet and transports, invades either Algeria or does the famous Eastern Canada-France transport setup
The Baltic fleet buy: General idea
- Germany sacrifices his advance vs Russia to create a threat against the UK fleet and, if backed up with transports, a threat to land in UK
- General aim is to combine the med sea fleet with the Baltic fleet to force Allies to buy a huge fleet and to delay the D-day, looking for a good trade of the German fleet vs the UK and/or US fleet later
- The German bid is used in Africa (tank in Algeria, artillery or inf in Libya) to make sure Germany can gain income there to compensate the loss of income on the Russian front
The Baltic fleet buy: Purchase options
- Opening buy: 1 Aircraft Carrier along with ground troops vs Russia: This sacrifices the least of the German combat forces against Russia. Sadly, it also barely creates a threat against UK itself, it just leads to a fleet battle later on.
- Opening buy: 1 Aircraft Carrier, 2 Transport, 2 Inf, 1 Artillery (or 1 transport and 4 inf + 1 art): This is an opening I would prefer because it also creates a threat of landing in the UK turn 2. It can be countered easily, but distracts any US landings and makes UK think twice if he wants to attack the German battleship in the med sea, see openings.
The Baltic fleet buy: Opening moves
They depends a lot on the Russian opening moves. There is one major thing and one minor that influence it:
(1) Has the Russian sub been moved to SZ2 to the UK battleship? (the major thing)
(2) Has the Russian player killed your the Ukrainian fighter? (the ‘bonus’)
If you are lucky and can answer at least question 1 with ‘no’, this creates a pretty good situation for the following opening moves:
- Your sub from SZ7 along with the bomber and the fighter from Norway attack the British battleship and transport in SZ2. Usually you win with the bomber left, if you are lucky you also keep the fighter. The aircrafts have to land in Norway or Algeria, so keep some troops there to protect them. If the sub was moved to SZ2, just use the sub to attack the SZ1 UK transport and use your fighters vs Russia and make them land in Germany and on the new built carrier later.
- Your fighter from Balkans along with the African troops attack Egypt to prevent the UK fleet from India from moving through Suez. You’ll likely have a battle with 2 tanks, 1 inf, 1 art (or another inf, depening on the bid size) and 1 fighter from Balkans against the UK troops in Egypt. You win there with 93% probability and an average of 2.77 units left. If you are lucky and kept the Ukrainian fighter, you can also attack with it if you don’t need it vs Russia.
- Your battleship along with the fighters from France and Germany kill off the UK battleship. Take the transport with it with a lone inf from Italy and land it in Gibraltar. This prevents an UK airstrike mostly, because UK now can only attack with the destroyer from SZ15 and the bomber from UK against your battleship + transport, where he has just a 22% chance of sinking the battleship. If you don’t take Gibraltar, UK will attack the battleship with fighters and land them there.
- Your ground troops kill the Russian attackers, but don’t push them too far because you lack supply in turn 1. Make sure to keep your possible losses low!
- After combat, depending on the outcome of the battles in SZ2 and SZ13, land 2 fighters in Germany to place them on the new built carrier. The bomber and possibly the surviving fighter land either in Norway or in Algeria, so protect them with ground troops. Move all your ground troops towards Russia, you don’t have to defend Western Europe, neither UK nor US will be able to land there shortly. Also take the AA gun with them. Make sure you can load 3 inf and 3 tanks to load on your transport in SZ5, and possibly also enough troops to load the transport in SZ13 to threaten UK with 4 full transports to land.
The Baltic fleet buy: Later strategy
If your attacks worked out, you have cleared the Atlantic almost completely. You have taken any pressure from Japan now and forced the Allies to play against Germany only because otherwise UK is in danger. Combine your fleets in SZ7. Make sure you reinforce your fleet only if absolutely necessary since supply is far (an IC in France might solve this but is usually not affordable) and look for a good point to trade it if you recognize that you can’t take UK. If US misses according fleet buys, you can possibly load all your transports and land in Eastern Canada with a decent force, threatening US. This should be combined with a Japanese landing in Alaska and needs to be prepared accordingly. On the mainland vs Russia, you will usually need air units. Consider buying one bomber turn 2 to have a way to clear the Atlantic from the new built UK fleet. As Japan, you might want to not move the Japanese fleet to the med sea but rather keep it near Japan to make and attack on the US a viable option and distract them.
The Baltic fleet buy: US/UK counterstrategy
Your only advantage of your strategy is that you threaten UK and therefor delay the US and UK landings by 2-3 turns. Your disadvantage is that you have to watch the Russian front, it can break down, and your fleet buys cost you ground unit buys early on, which are usually crucial. Also, your fleet will get lost in 95% of the games, no matter how you play, it’s just a matter of time.
The counterstrategy of the Allies is easy to describe: Turn 1, if the UK battleship in SZ2 survived, UK builds mostly sea units. He can hardly attack anywhere (he might decide to attack your SZ13 bb+trannie to sink the trannie), so this is where you bought yourself some time. If UK and US play correctly, UK builds e.g. an AC and a dd turn 1 (or 1 AC, 1 sub, 1 transport), placing all his units in SZ8, where the US also moves his 2 transports and the destroyer from SZ10 and unloads the troops to UK and sends a fighter and bomber over, too. Always calculate here, if UK decides to place his fighters on the carrier and you can attack with 4 full transport, you can create e.g. an attack with 4 inf, 1 art, 3 tank, 4 figs and 1 bmb vs 4 inf, 2 art, 2 tanks, 1 fig and 2 bmb, where you have a 78% chance of taking UK turn 2 under heavy losses. Overall, a massive US/UK fleet combines in SZ8, and it will become a problem once you lose the German fleet and those ground units can start landing. Also, Russia will heavily push against Germany so the income of Germany cannot match versus its attackers mid- and late game. Japan has to go for a win vs Russia or maybe US usually.
The Baltic fleet buy: Conclusion
In my opinion, this is a nice interesting option for a fun game. Because of the problems and counterstrategy as described above, I heavily doubt though it’s a good strategy in a competitive game.
If you have played any games with this strategy or have other idea, please let me know!
Re. the original query….my preference was moving the fleet out to SZ7. This puts critical pressure on SZ12–since by the time the Allies get around to attacking SZ7 you know whether they will land in SZ12, and you know whether or not to submerge your submarines. In addition, if the Krauts stay in SZ5, Uk planes can hit this target and still land deep in Russia…but their movements are more limited if they have to attack SZ7.
Against experts, it’s usually a good idea to send either a sub or the tranny to SZ3 to prevent a UK1 landing on Karelia and R2 blitz of Norway. Typically, I take the transport to 7…along with 2 inf from Norway that will help defend Western Europe. Of course, if it’s safe to stack Karelia, then you want the tranny to stay in SZ 5 and unload 2 more inf, and in that case it’s not necessary to block SZ3 so both subs can go to 7.
As for sustainable German fleet options, that’s a pretty complicated topic. I think German fleet options are way stronger in Revised then in AA50 because of the sub and transport rule changes. There are several effective strategies (Darkman’s post above has good ideas), most of which involve a G2 combine in 7. But granted, if the Allied opponent is an expert and knows exactly how to counter it and can KGF effectively, then its probably not be an optimal move. Makes for a fun game though, and the Allied player has to be pretty skilled to beat it if Germany knows what its doing.
I like to scatter my submarines to sz7 and sz3, and my destroyer either goes to sz6 or stays in sz5 with the transport.
I don’t know if it’s a fantastic move, but I like having my opponent forced to split up his attacks. I don’t know how much I value that transport; I always seem to focus more on south east europe than karelia, but that’s because we don’t play victory cities.
Thanks for everyone’s answers. I’ll have to try out the Aircraft Carrier option next time.
I’ll have to read yours in more detail next time I play it (which will be soon hopefully :-D), Darkman.