How to slow Japan enough in KGF?

The UK Indian Ocean fleet.

@Bunnies:

@BigPapaSmurf:

Send 5 inf from Kar/Arch, 1 Artillery and two fighters to West russia and stack everything else in Cauc. Leave one Inf in Lenningrad and do your standard moves on the east end.

Don’t you run into Germany taking Karelia and West Russia, and establishing a strong center position from which Russia cannot reclaim Karelia income?

Bunnies is correct. G takes West Russia with units from BR/Ukr. Russia can retake West Russia but will only earn 27 IPC, not being able to contest Belorussia and Karelia. Germany meanwhile can build 5 inf, 5 arm on G1 and put some serious pressure to prevent Russia from stacking West Russia on turn 2.

The main goal of the Ukr attack is IMHO to get the fighter,

Cutting most of Germany’s ability to attack Caucasus is another big big plus.  If Russia lucks out on the Ukraine attack, Germany may either risk fighters on G1 on other targets to send a fighter to Ukraine, or may send valuable tanks to reclaim Ukraine.  Or if Russia lucks out at Ukraine, Russia may retreat to Caucasus to preserve its tanks/artillery.

As equally as important as the fighter is to protect the Russian units on West Russia from being destroyed on G1. If you lose them, you lose any chance of contesting Karelia/Belorussia. Germany may also stack Ukraine like you mentioned, cutting off 3 IPC to Russia (plus the 2 from Belorussia) and both sides get into a war of positions that doesn’t favor Russia (i.e. the Allies better get quickly to help).

I’d say other things on your list should be:

3 transports 1 destroyer
4 transports
2 transports 1 industrial complex
2 industrial complexes

(The thought behind 1 industrial complex or 2 is very different; 1 IC mixes early pressure with infantry backup; 2 ICs just goes “hell for leather” as you may say.)

That pretty much covers it.

@Bunnies:

Which would you rather have?  The Nemesis Weapon of Mixed Destruction?  Or . . . The Nemesis Weapon of Mixed Destruction With Puppy package?

in my experience, the puppy IS the Nemesis Weapon of Mixed Destruction.

@Bunnies:

You do want Jap tanks on the mainland early, but I think it’s best NOT to try to mass early on - the tanks just don’t have enough punching power against a good Russian player to threaten anything worthwhile.  Best use infantry plus air support.  You want a COUPLE tanks, yes, but best concentrate on infantry early; that’s all the more that will be knocking on Moscow’s door when push comes to shove.

I agree. Just like Germany, you’re going to want those infantry right up against Russia for when it really matters, and so you better start early and keep it coming. With the airforce there I don’t get concerned about not having more tanks (1 here and there keeps you ready). The one draw back is that with less tanks, you can’t do as Hobbes recommends and bring more of your airforce to G which is a significant trade-off.

@Bunnies:

1.  Noticed you moved transport from east of Japan to west of Japan.  My preference is to hit Burytia, grabbing an infantry from Wake Island in the process.

Yea, I’d rather hit Bury on J1 too (prevent a build up on SFA). I’ve been cautious with a no destroyer build, because I want to insure that the UK ships on 59 do indeed die, but I think it can still be safely done.

@Bunnies:

You put an IC up in French Indochina on J2.  My generic recommendation is to get 5-6 transports and a second tank in Asia ASAP.  Think, a J2 15 IPC investment results in an additional 3 infantry in French Indochina at the placement (end) phase of J3.  A J2 14 IPC investment results in an additional 4 infantry at any number of places at the combat phase of J3, with the added bonus that many of those infantry are free, having been pulled off the islands.

The J2 IC is two-fold for me. 1) Build the most pressure on the Asian front as rapidly as possible. This is debatable, but I think you’re right that in the short term, I can get more units on the mainland with more transports. 2) I become less vulnerable/set back by a successful “ah, what the heck” attack on my battleships/transports – after all, I’m making an aggressive play to keep my sea fleet minimal. I’m also still able to safely grab units off of Born, Phi, and EI to supplement the mainland.

Very fun read, enjoyable thought experiment.

dump the idea of invading the US. My opinion: focus on Rest and Rebuild OR helping Germany.

@WTFchris:

Why do you guys put factories on Asia?  Seems like a waste to me.  Japan only has enough income to buy 8 units for transporting anyway (can increase to tanks and inf later with more income).

If you spend 15 on IC, then you put 3 units there a turn, but you aren’t using Japan IC fully because money shortage.  You gain no movement either (except through China corridor, which will be almost defenseless in a turn or two).  You can drop from Japan to Buryatia which is just as close to Russia as any mainland IC.  why waste 15 IPCs?  I also build no ships until I see US pacific fleet amassed (which rarely happens).  Since you took out Hawaii fleet (doesn’t matter what you lost as long as their’s is gone), they are not within reach for 2 turns.  Only build boats in response to US massing.

I have made India IC though as income increases and you can’t spend all your money at Japan IC.  This allows for pressure on Caucus at same time as northern pressure.  Then I just mass at Yakut and India until I have enough to hit either Russia IC.

I think your reasoning applies very well to Revised…but I’m not so sure about this game.  It may well be that transport tactics that work well in Revised will apply here (for instance I think popular Germany tactics like the Lurch are still applicable here), but there are a couple problems…

It’s hard to buy transports if UK is applying pressure.  If UK has a bomber, sub and possibly a fig in range of 62, Japan can’t drop any new transports w/o keeping a bb and a loaded carrier in 62 or buying some surface navy.  Going with a factory (or 2) on J1 allows Japan to go after the Allied navies without having to worry about protecting convoys.  The alternative is staying in 62 and going after Pearl with air/subs only…I’m not crazy about that option but it is an option.

The one area where factories are superior to transports in terms of mobility is being able to drop 3 tanks at a time that are already situated on the mainland.  My impression so far is that tank heavy strategies are more tempting for Axis since Germany is frequently defeated quickly in Africa…giving Allies the advantage in the long game.  Meanwhile, it takes longer for the Allies to set up an Atlantic shuck than in Revised…so Russia is more vulnerable to being tag-teamed by the Axis.