Pro-Allied Greece and Crete


  • '10

    If you have a close look at the Map you will notice that Greece is a Pro-Allies Neutral.  Crete is a SEPARATE territory (Has its own BOLD Name on board).

    Rule question:  If Allied land in Crete…  Does Greece join Allies?  Are the four infantry units on Greek mainland only?



  • Since Crete would be considered a SEPARATE territory, as you point out, I would say that Greece does not join the Allies in your scenario, Crete would; and since Crete has no infantry spawn marker on it, there would be no infantry spawned.



  • That doesnt seem to make much sense considering Crete is part of Greece as a whole. Like Hawaii is a part of the US as a whole.

    It seems to me that a landing on Crete would effectively bring Greece into the war.



  • But we’re not talking about things that make sense in real life :-P, we’re talking about the game mechanics, and in the game, just because you capture Hawaii doesn’t mean that America loses, game over (which is kinda the same in real life too).

    A foreign force could capture the island of Crete and the Greek government would still continue running the rest of the country without the island; same here.  Crete is a separate territory and its occupation does not affect the occupation status of mainland Greece.



  • I wasn’t talking about “occupying” Greece as a whole - and perhaps I misread the initial question - but I thought the question was whether a landing in Crete would bring Greece into the war - and therefore activate the 4 Greek infantry.

    Seems to me a landing in Crete by the Allies would: 1) bring Greece into the war on the Allied side, and 2) the 4 Greek infantry would be activated in Greece (not in Crete).

    Mechanically, that seems to make sense since Crete is (and was) in fact part of Greece (i.e. the Greek state).



  • I would think because it is a named tt (Crete), that it is a separate tt. Therefore I don’t think an invasion of Crete would activate the Greek inf. I could see it going the other way though.

    Another question for Crete:
    Crete (once activated) and Cypress are in the same sz. Are you allowed to build an AB for scramble purposes.  Same could be asked about Sardinia/Sicily (also two islands in one sz).

    We didn’t see this in Pac, if you can you could end up w/opposing powers being able to scramble in the same sz. I think that would be cool.

    W/Both these questions sound like we need the answer man (kreighund).



  • Personally I think they intentionally made Crete a separate territory so that you could place an airbase there and scramble.  If it were just part of the Greece territory it wouldn’t fit the island definition.

    As far as it working “the other way” (i.e. Greece is occupied by the Allies so Crete becomes Allied), that would make sense politically, but not as far as the current game mechanics are concerned…


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Crete is part of Greece. Attacking either should be linked to cause war with the other.  That would be historical, but the game may not be.


  • Customizer

    I assume the same thing applies to Spanish colonies (Rio de Oro I assume is treated as such) and those of Portugal (Angola & Mozambique).  Or are these too treated as independent neutrals?


  • '10

    @Flashman:

    I assume the same thing applies to Spanish colonies (Rio de Oro I assume is treated as such) and those of Portugal (Angola & Mozambique).  Or are these too treated as independent neutrals?

    These are all very important questions.  If I was Greece or Spain…  would the invasion of one of my territories not effect my political outlook?


  • 2020 2019 2018 2017 '16 '15 '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Perhaps Crete is considered a separate territory from Greece on the map because the German conquest of Crete (spearheaded by a large paratroop landing) took place a month after the invasion of mainland Greece.



  • What is the big deal, no matter what those 4 inf in Greece are going to defend if the axis come knocking.  All it means if they don’t activate, is that they are only defending there homes, which kinda makes sense in an abstract sort of way.



  • @CWO:

    Perhaps Crete is considered a separate territory from Greece on the map because the German conquest of Crete (spearheaded by a large paratroop landing) took place a month after the invasion of mainland Greece.

    But still if Greece falls I don’t think Crete would be like well, I don’t really care Greece fell.



  • @Flashman:

    I assume the same thing applies to Spanish colonies (Rio de Oro I assume is treated as such) and those of Portugal (Angola & Mozambique).  Or are these too treated as independent neutrals?

    Thats actually a really good question - I’d definitely like to have a definitive answer on that - as well as an explanation on the mechanics of scrambling by two opposing powers from two different islands in the same SZ.

    Looking closely at the high rez picture of the board posted in the other thread, it appears certain “true neutral” territories are shaded differently from others.  Compare Spain with Argentina and Chile. One has distinctive vertical line shading (which appears on other “true neutrals” like Turkey, Sweden, etc.), yet the other appears to be all white with no line shading.   Rio de Oro and other west coast African colonies are similar, and have no line shading.)  I wonder if its just the picture not being in focus, a printing error, or has some significance under the rules.

    EDIT:  Looking more closely on a higher zoom and it looks like there are vertical line shading those territories. Nevermind!



  • @gtg21:

    @Flashman:

    I assume the same thing applies to Spanish colonies (Rio de Oro I assume is treated as such) and those of Portugal (Angola & Mozambique).  Or are these too treated as independent neutrals?

    Thats actually a really good question - I’d definitely like to have a definitive answer on that - as well as an explanation on the mechanics of scrambling by two opposing powers from two different islands in the same SZ.

    Looking closely at the high rez picture of the board posted in the other thread, it appears certain “true neutral” territories are shaded differently from others.  Compare Spain with Argentina and Chile. One has distinctive vertical line shading (which appears on other “true neutrals” like Turkey, Sweden, etc.), yet the other appears to be all white with no line shading.   Rio de Oro and other west coast African colonies are similar, and have no line shading.)  I wonder if its just the picture not being in focus, a printing error, or has some significance under the rules.

    EDIT:  Looking more closely on a higher zoom and it looks like there are vertical line shading those territories. Nevermind!

    Well look at Greenland it was Denmark colony, but it’s not with the UK, it’s American, shouldn’t it join the allies, the US wasn’t and ally!



  • Upon initially reading the first opening question I would have agreed word for word  with SAS’s first response, but after a little consideration I’m not so sure anymore.  If you remember in AAP1940 Mongolia is a strict neutral and it has 6 differently named territories.  I would assume that if I attack Mongolia, then all of Mongolia would be activated against me, so by that logic if Crete is attacked or occupied it would activate Greece too.  That’s my opinion.  As for colonial empires like Portugal and Mozambique I’m not sure, but probably not.



  • There will probably be an errata or rules clarification out at some point, and this site would be perfect for that.

    My thought on this is that Crete is part of Greece, and the 4 Allied INF can go on Greece or Crete, or a combo of both…which would be very historical since Crete was defended seperately from Greece by the Allies.



  • @Dylan:

    Well look at Greenland it was Denmark colony, but it’s not with the UK, it’s American, shouldn’t it join the allies, the US wasn’t and ally!

    Well actually Greenland being assigned as a US territory is fairly accurate.  When Denmark was overrun by the Germans Greenland effectively established self-rule and relied on trade with the US (and Canada) to remain supplied.   The US actually acted against a UK and Canadian plan to occupy the territory, which was supported by the Danish authorities still in Greenland at the time.

    See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Greenland_during_World_War_II



  • @panzerjager:

    If you remember in AAP1940 Mongolia is a strict neutral and it has 6 differently named territories.  I would assume that if I attack Mongolia, then all of Mongolia would be activated against me, so by that logic if Crete is attacked or occupied it would activate Greece too.  That’s my opinion.  As for colonial empires like Portugal and Mozambique I’m not sure, but probably not.

    The Mongolia example is actually an excellent point - and one I had overlooked.  That would seem to cut in favor of Greece entering the war by virtue of Crete being occupied/attacked.  Because, as you stated, I dont think people would argue moving into just one Mongolian territory would mean the others remain neutral while one part of the country is occupied.

    Using the same analogy, it would seem the Greek infantry activation would have to take place in Greece (and not Crete - or a split between the two), as that is the space where there infantry graphic appears.

    Afterall, I dont think if you move into Central Mongolia the 2 infantry from Buyant-Uhaa (or any other Mongolian territory) would be allowed to activate in Central Mongolia to oppose the move.  Or would they?  All best guesses on my part.



  • Seems strange that Greece is neutral. It was allied with the UK 1940, and the brits used Crete as an airbase for bombing the oil fields in Ploeisti (Romania). That´s why Hitler ordered Student to drop some crack paratroopers on the island to force the brits out of there.



  • Why would you want to land in Crete to activate the 4 inf anyway? wouldn’t it make more sense to land in Greece and support those 4 free infantry you’re receiving.  😄



  • I don’t see how it really makes a difference seeing as how Greece is a pro-Allies neutral anyway…  If you land an Allied infantry on Crete and activate Greece, then I suppose you get the 2 IPCs for control and the extra infantry, but that goes against all the other game mechanics of not getting control of a territory without actually entering the territory (except liberating a capital I suppose and returning control, but that’s not the same thing).  Regardless, if Germany tries to invade, that same number of infantry would defend against Germany.  I don’t see how it makes a difference whether the infantry are “activated” and put on the board early rather than when the territory is actually attacked…  It’s different when we’re talking about Strict Neutrals since the other Strict neutral territories go over to the opposing side when attacked, but with Greece and Crete already being pro-Allied, what’s the difference?


  • '10

    @Mysterious:

    Why would you want to land in Crete to activate the 4 inf anyway? wouldn’t it make more sense to land in Greece and support those 4 free infantry you’re receiving.  😄

    if you were UK you might want to land your limited forces in Crete…  and use the four “FREE” infantry to create havoc in South/East Europe, without risking any of your own troops or exposing them to loss.



  • @FieldMarshalGames:

    @Mysterious:

    Why would you want to land in Crete to activate the 4 inf anyway? wouldn’t it make more sense to land in Greece and support those 4 free infantry you’re receiving.  😄

    if you were UK you might want to land your limited forces in Crete…  and use the four “FREE” infantry to create havoc in South/East Europe, without risking any of your own troops or exposing them to loss.

    lol what havoc? 4 inf @ 1 you’re better off combining your forces to defend. Germany is likely to take Bulgaria activating 4 inf there + whatever else goes into the mix. Although if landing in Crete for some reason did actually activate the 4 infantry i would use them to defend Crete and construct an AB there.



  • Or, put the INF in Crete, safe from a large Axis attack that would otherwise over-whelm them in Greece proper.  For use later, and/or defend an island with a possible airbase if the Med is not yet secured, etc…


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