AAE40 G2-3 Sealion Strategy!!!



  • Agreed.  Absolutely, the fun factor is the most important thing.  I definitely prefer an enjoyable, close game where every player has a chance to come out on the winning side to a historical re-enactment masquerading as a game.

    My only concern is making sure the UK player gets to have some fun too.  So far,  UK Pacific fleet gets crushed by Japan round 1.  UK Atlantic fleet gets sunk by Germany round 1.  By round three or four India falls to Japan.  Meanwhile the Italians have Egypt and are romping through the middle of Africa because all UK can do is stack London and hope to, but probably not, survive Sea Lion.

    Not much to smile about or enjoy if I am playing UK….



  • There may be an exception to Americans helping England because Roosevelt, even though not at war, encouraged citizens to go to Britain to help out the British. This allowed America to help and stay neutral. This being said a G1 Sea-lion would be the only feasible option because the British tac bomber can land from Gibraltar the bombers from central America could fly over to add fodder and the Canadians can add a tank and a guy. even without America the British could  still do just a normal buy and group their boats to block or destroy the German fleet. I do not see Sea Lion happening unless the English player is terrible or Germany is incredibly lucky



  • I’m calculating a 75% chance of winning the RAF battle in England if you send in the entire airforce (3 fig 3 tac and 1 bomber), with an average of 2 units left over… ouch.  Yeah, basic mutual annihilation, and this is if you get even odds with the initial AA roll.  I’m guessing the German player would like to keep at least one fighter to land on the carrier, with the other fighter from Norway landing in SZ 112.  The other unit that survives could either be the bomber or a tac.

    With the scenario proposed by BlueIguana with the remainder of the German fleet, however, it looks like the best Germany can clear out of the Atlantic is the two cruisers in SZ 112, the destroyer trans combo in SZ 109 and one of the battleship cruiser or destroyer sets in SZ 110 or 111.  That leaves a sizeable portion to make a blocking force in the Channel, 1 bs 1 cru or 1 dd 1 ac and 1 tac.  29 UK IPCs on UK1 can add 3 dd to this blockade.  OR Britain could attack SZ 112 with this, 1 bb 1 cru or 1 dd and 1 tac…  Ok, the UK probably won’t go offensive against a German loaded carrier/bs combo. I’m thinking the UK will go defensive with this fleet.  If Britain can build enough naval units in the Channel SZ they don’t have to worry about building land units in England.

    What does Germany have left on G2 to pound this with?  With its G1 buy if Germany is trying Sealion a carrier is a must, that’s 16 IPCs, 14 left could either buy 2 transports or 1 dd and 1 sub.  If Germany builds the 2 trans the most it has to go offensive with is 1 bb 1 cru 2 ss (from surrounding SZs, maybe, if any have survived from UK1) 2 fig 1 tac against UK’s 1 bb 1 cru or 3/4 dd 1 ac and 1 tac.  Calculating these odds, ugh… 63% chance of victory, IF all these preconditions are met, with MAYBE one unit left over…  The three loaded transports would have to come in with this attack and kill the Canadian UK units (1 inf and 1 tank) landed on UK1, which should be over fairly easily.  But you’d be fighting against the odds for this one.  It might be better to try…

    ***Additional G2 Strategy with 3 transports in SZ 112 …  INVADE SCOTLAND!!!***:  Why not sacrifice the 3 transports and land 6 land units in Scotland G2?  Once you’ve landed your troops, the transport’s work is done.  This way you’d have 6 land units bordering England which only has a tank and inf for defense.  This way you’d force England to build some land units for defense UK2, leave its fleet perilously weak in the Channel, plus Germany’s G2 monster +17 France’s and NOs IPC God-build ensures that you can build more transports and naval units in SZ 112 to ensure victory!!!

    To even the odds a bit in this G2 naval battle, if Germany builds 1 dd and 1 sub into SZ 112 instead of the 2 trans on G1, the battle with the surviving British fleet becomes a little easier… 1 bb 1 cru 3 ss 1 dd 2 fig 1 tac against UK’s 1 bb 1 cru or 3/4 dd 1 ac and 1 tac defending the Channel.  This battle could be easily won with 95% odds of success with about 5 units remaining.  One loaded transport invading Britain against the Canadian 1 inf and 1 tank would have 75% odds if a fighter was detached from the naval battle to finish off Britain.  Seems like pretty good odds, even with a one trans invasion.

    I’m even thinking Germany’s best strategy may be building 1 carrier, 1 trans and 1 sub G1 to take care of UK1 either/or possibilities in terms of reinforcing its fleet in SZ 110 or building all inf.  Would sorta cover both fronts, and force Britain to go either all-in on one with naval or land or half-as#ed on both.

    Anyway, Germany makes so much money for a G2 build from France’s fall that building a follow-up invasion fleet on G2 should be cake for finishing off whatever British naval units are left around Britain, if a determined German player wishes to try a Sealion.  I’d worry about the USA and Russia G3, but at least you’d have a decent shot at taking England with this strat.



  • G1: Build major IC in Netherlands-Belgium.  Take France.

    G2: Build all transports and mass all units in Netherlands-Belgium.

    G3: Build major IC in Norway.  Attack UK with everything.

    G4+: If Russia attacks, use navy to advantage and hold in Europe while attacking through north.  Russian Army may be cut off and destroyed, or bypassed and go straight for Moscow after Leningrad falls.  Build Tanks in Leningrad and Mech infantry in Norway.


  • 2018 2017 '16 '15 Customizer

    @Upside-down_Turtle:

    G1: Build major IC in Netherlands-Belgium.  Take France.

    G2: Build all transports and mass all units in Netherlands-Belgium.

    G3: Build major IC in Norway.  Attack UK with everything.

    G4+: If Russia attacks, use navy to advantage and hold in Europe while attacking through north.  Russian Army may be cut off and destroyed, or bypassed and go straight for Moscow after Leningrad falls.  Build Tanks in Leningrad and Mech infantry in Norway.

    Are you planning for the Allied player to be a moron?



  • @Upside-down_Turtle:

    G1: Build major IC in Netherlands-Belgium.  Take France.

    G2: Build all transports and mass all units in Netherlands-Belgium.

    G3: Build major IC in Norway.  Attack UK with everything.

    G4+: If Russia attacks, use navy to advantage and hold in Europe while attacking through north.  Russian Army may be cut off and destroyed, or bypassed and go straight for Moscow after Leningrad falls.  Build Tanks in Leningrad and Mech infantry in Norway.

    I think you need to put at least one aircraft carrier in there somewhere to have your fleet of transports last more than 1 turn.  Also, you’re turning 60 IPCs into factories that probably should be put into units at some point.

    You might be onto something with Belgium building a major IC, but you’d definitely have to rebuild your starting German fleet from scratch since it’s not lasting more than 1 turn without a carrier for protection.  By then the UK would have the upper hand in naval units.

    Hell, what am I saying?  LOL, you kids, you think everything can be summed up in a few brief sentences anyway.



  • @BlueIguana:

    Agreed.  Absolutely, the fun factor is the most important thing.  I definitely prefer an enjoyable, close game where every player has a chance to come out on the winning side to a historical re-enactment masquerading as a game.

    My only concern is making sure the UK player gets to have some fun too.  So far,  UK Pacific fleet gets crushed by Japan round 1.  UK Atlantic fleet gets sunk by Germany round 1.  By round three or four India falls to Japan.   Meanwhile the Italians have Egypt and are romping through the middle of Africa because all UK can do is stack London and hope to, but probably not, survive Sea Lion.

    Not much to smile about or enjoy if I am playing UK….

    Aw, man, c’mon, what could be MORE fun than having a Russian + US standard opening counter to a German Sealion bid?  Germany will be forced to make some very scripted moves that don’t have a lot of leeway to take Britain; plus a lot of its opening money will be sunk into transports that will need a navy to be protected for later use.  The United States could be spending its 35 Global “peace-time” IPCs making a take-back fleet that will be in position to retake Britain US3 or 4.  35 IPCs is definitely a carrier a turn on the East coast, throw in some planes and a German Sealion on G3 will seem even more dicey.  Germany will probably be forced to spend more on his navy than he would like to just maintain British occupation.

    Russia even has a damn battleship to start with; imagine a Russian naval build for the first 3 rounds sailing out of the Baltic on Germany’s eastern flank!  Hitler would be crapping his pants!  It’s going to be bad enough with the ground units in place on the Russian border; 3 turns of moving infantry into position is going to make some nice looking stacks, plus 3 turns of tanks backing it up.  I’m not going to enjoy a “full-powered” version of Russia after a successful Sealion; even with Britain’s looted IPCs its going to be tough.

    I’m betting with the Round 3 neutrality rules America’s “peace-time” money builds will either be able to save Britain or India, but probably not both.



  • @LHoffman:

    Are you planning for the Allied player to be a moron?

    That’s always worked out all right for me.  😄



  • On G1 you can smash all the UK boats around england with air+subs if you don’t mind taking a few extra losses in France, and why not do it?  Now this is assuming a europe game instead of pacific, but G can easily meet the US’s income by eating neutrals and France.  Add to that the Italians beating on the UK, plus the convoy zones, and the distance from russian factories, and I think you could atleast starve out the UK as a viable strat.



  • Sgt Blitz, from what I read of your strategies is that for Sea Lion you want to attack the RAF on G1 with 7 planes. That leaves you one fighter and 5 subs to attack the UK fleets with. How do you divide these units to kill off the 2 CA’s, the BB + CA and the DD + Trn, leaving UK with only one BB and DD around their home island?



  • @LHoffman:

    @Upside-down_Turtle:

    G1: Build major IC in Netherlands-Belgium.  Take France.

    G2: Build all transports and mass all units in Netherlands-Belgium.

    G3: Build major IC in Norway.  Attack UK with everything.

    G4+: If Russia attacks, use navy to advantage and hold in Europe while attacking through north.  Russian Army may be cut off and destroyed, or bypassed and go straight for Moscow after Leningrad falls.  Build Tanks in Leningrad and Mech infantry in Norway.

    scratch that.  west Germany boarders zone 112.

    G1 Attack into 112 w/ fleet. build 4 transports in 112.

    G2: Attack

    Are you planning for the Allied player to be a moron?



  • Correct me if I’m wrong, but USSR and Germany have around the same amount of IPCs every turn (depending of course on the NOs).
    Germany: 30 at start+9 (at best) from France (6 of these at best on G1)+2 from Finland+2 from Yugoslavia (let’s say they take it). And a one time 17 IPCs bonus.

    Over 3 turns, they have 30+40+17+43=130 IPCs

    USSR: 39 IPCs every turn, which makes 117 IPCs

    But every russian production is going to Berlin, which means, in my idea, that Germany is actually at an economic disadvantage against Russia. Plus, Germany is the attacking power, so the more it advances the easier for Russian drunk footmen to reach its armies.

    Imagine if you build transports and CVs to attack UK. Maybe you could take it, but you will then look desperately at the russian juggernaught coming for your women.


  • 2018 2017 '16 '15 Customizer

    @BasileII:

    Imagine if you build transports and CVs to attack UK. Maybe you could take it, but you will then look desperately at the russian juggernaught coming for your women.

    Yeah look out… Ivan is coming for your women… and your precious metals. My ideas exactly.



  • Keep metals, I’ll get women.  :evil:


  • 2018 2017 '16 '15 Customizer

    @BasileII:

    Keep metals, I’ll get women.  :evil:

    Alright Basile, you and I will teach these dirty Krauts what happens when they have the audacity to attempt an early Sea Lion.  😄



  • @BasileII:

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but USSR and Germany have around the same amount of IPCs every turn (depending of course on the NOs).
    Germany: 30 at start+9 (at best) from France (6 of these at best on G1)+2 from Finland+2 from Yugoslavia (let’s say they take it). And a one time 17 IPCs bonus.

    Over 3 turns, they have 30+40+17+43=130 IPCs

    USSR: 39 IPCs every turn, which makes 117 IPCs

    But every russian production is going to Berlin, which means, in my idea, that Germany is actually at an economic disadvantage against Russia. Plus, Germany is the attacking power, so the more it advances the easier for Russian drunk footmen to reach its armies.

    Imagine if you build transports and CVs to attack UK. Maybe you could take it, but you will then look desperately at the russian juggernaught coming for your women.

    You’re absolutely right.  Germany does have three advantages, though.  The first is that they have a more starting units (and especially more tanks, mech inf, and fighters).  Mech Inf and Tanks that attack France on G1 can make it back to support a G3 attack on Russia.  The second is that new production infantry from Moscow and Stalingrad won’t make it to the front line until R4, which means that for a G3 or G4 attack, you’re only dealing with on-board forces.  The third is the Pripet Marsh.  If you take East Poland on the first round of attack, you can then decide whether to go north or south for the second round of attack, based on which is less fortified, and there will be an extra speed bump in their shifting defenses to meet you.

    I think there will be an interesting tension on the German-Russian front.  Because Russia’s income is so high in comparison with their starting forces (relative to earlier versions of A&A), there’s a real incentive to attack early (before G4) to catch them before they solidify their defenses, and to chew up some infantry before the stacks get tall.  Because of this, Russia may want to withdraw all but a token force from the front lines to preserve units, which will ironically give Germany the capability and incentive to attack even earlier.  If Russia pulls forces back on R1, I’m seriously considering a G2 attack.



  • @SgtBlitz:

    Aw, man, c’mon, what could be MORE fun than having a Russian + US standard opening counter to a German Sealion bid?  Germany will be forced to make some very scripted moves that don’t have a lot of leeway to take Britain; plus a lot of its opening money will be sunk into transports that will need a navy to be protected for later use.  The United States could be spending its 35 Global “peace-time” IPCs making a take-back fleet that will be in position to retake Britain US3 or 4.  35 IPCs is definitely a carrier a turn on the East coast, throw in some planes and a German Sealion on G3 will seem even more dicey.  Germany will probably be forced to spend more on his navy than he would like to just maintain British occupation.

    Russia even has a damn battleship to start with; imagine a Russian naval build for the first 3 rounds sailing out of the Baltic on Germany’s eastern flank!  Hitler would be crapping his pants!  It’s going to be bad enough with the ground units in place on the Russian border; 3 turns of moving infantry into position is going to make some nice looking stacks, plus 3 turns of tanks backing it up.  I’m not going to enjoy a “full-powered” version of Russia after a successful Sealion; even with Britain’s looted IPCs its going to be tough.

    I’m betting with the Round 3 neutrality rules America’s “peace-time” money builds will either be able to save Britain or India, but probably not both.

    Saving Britain will probably be the much easier of the two to save, and just imagine: Germany takes Britain G3, US is in position to take it back A4 while mainland Germany is facing a horde or screaming Russians coming across the eastern front R4, or even coming directly for Germany in transports across the Baltic.  This means that Germany has one turn to prepare for the big squeeze if they manage to pull off the Sea Lion.



  • @SAS:

    @SgtBlitz:

    Aw, man, c’mon, what could be MORE fun than having a Russian + US standard opening counter to a German Sealion bid?  Germany will be forced to make some very scripted moves that don’t have a lot of leeway to take Britain; plus a lot of its opening money will be sunk into transports that will need a navy to be protected for later use.  The United States could be spending its 35 Global “peace-time” IPCs making a take-back fleet that will be in position to retake Britain US3 or 4.  35 IPCs is definitely a carrier a turn on the East coast, throw in some planes and a German Sealion on G3 will seem even more dicey.  Germany will probably be forced to spend more on his navy than he would like to just maintain British occupation.

    Russia even has a damn battleship to start with; imagine a Russian naval build for the first 3 rounds sailing out of the Baltic on Germany’s eastern flank!  Hitler would be crapping his pants!  It’s going to be bad enough with the ground units in place on the Russian border; 3 turns of moving infantry into position is going to make some nice looking stacks, plus 3 turns of tanks backing it up.  I’m not going to enjoy a “full-powered” version of Russia after a successful Sealion; even with Britain’s looted IPCs its going to be tough.

    I’m betting with the Round 3 neutrality rules America’s “peace-time” money builds will either be able to save Britain or India, but probably not both.

    Saving Britain will probably be the much easier of the two to save, and just imagine: Germany takes Britain G3, US is in position to take it back A4 while mainland Germany is facing a horde or screaming Russians coming across the eastern front R4, or even coming directly for Germany in transports across the Baltic.  This means that Germany has one turn to prepare for the big squeeze if they manage to pull off the Sea Lion.

    Yup.  Essentially throwing away 75% of your airforce round 1 probably doesn’t help Germany that much either.  Didn’t say Sealion was going to be an easy proposition.  IF you’re able to keep your transport fleet alive, however, then you have means to shuttle troops between England, Norway, and the Continent at will.  The trick will be feeding it enough naval units to keep it alive while at the same time building enough land units to keep the Reds busy.  I guess we’ll find out when the game releases.

    Someone was asking earlier how 1 fig and 5 subs are going to take out most of the British fleet?  Well, you also have a bs and a cru in SZ 113 that can take on the British and French cruisers in SZ 112.  2 subs kill a UK destroyer + trans combo in SZ 106 or 109 and the other 3 subs plus the fig attack the UK bs + cru combo in SZ 111 (maybe they can only reach the UK dd and bs in SZ 110, not sure).  Probably very few subs will survive to see G2, so it might be a good idea to build an AC, dd, and sub on G1 for extra naval fodder.



  • Ok, those seem fair naval attacks. Some are a bit tricky (2 subs vs 1 DD and 1 BB, 1 CA vs 2 CA’s) but it can be done.

    Then on G2 you buy like 7-8 transports to make G3 invasion right?

    So that leaves you with 18 ground units (you start with one transport, and I presume you have 18 ground units to load from the starting setup) against Britain’s 9 built on UK1, 9 (maybe 10 too hard to tell) on turn 2 + 2 Canadians. That’s 20 ground units (perhaps 21). Air power should make the difference than… UK can have 2 air units defending (Tactical from the ark royal + ftr from Cairo). Germany will have most likely 3 air units, but those have to face the UK flak first…

    All and all a tough attack on G3 to be honest.



  • Man I cannot wait to try these gambits out! Too bad I’m gonna be knee deep in homework and studying by the time I get the game (school starts 8/19 for me).


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