• So now that we have a good idea of what the French start off with, how useful will they be to the Allies? Larry said the Free French units will play an important role in ultimate Allied victory. What do you think he meant by this? Is the French Med fleet doomed to sink?


  • They help Britain, maybe with out them Britain will be way to crippled when the US and USSR enters.


  • Idk about doomed to sink, it’s definitely vulnerable but the Italian player is going to need to make some important decisions. While the Italian fleet starts out pretty powerful, there’s a good amount of British/French sea units in range (and on land) and while they start out spread out, I doubt the Italian player will be able to wipe out all the Allied units in the area in the first turn, giving the Allies time to reorganize their remaining ships.


  • The conundrum with French units is that you will want them (land unit-wise) to defend territories, but not attack territories. As France’s capital will have fallen, having them take territories would be depriving the Allies of valuable income.

    Thoughts?

  • '17 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    French planes should land in England and as many French units as possible need to head to Africa. However, Germany at first opportunity will take them out. So if they survive ( which i think they wont) thats what whey must do.

    That give the allies a double punch advantage against Italy, which seems to have a free hand in North Africa. It can also get bases for allied air units that can try to sink Italian fleet.

    So basically France can be the new allied “can opener” until their forces run out.

    I don’t know the french surrender rules, because they may have a rule where any French in Vichy areas go to neutral status once france falls. In that case they might take out spain and set up a new landing base for the allies.

    I have this feeling that Spain will again return as the old handy allied strategy ( in MB AA) of a base from which to attack France and protect Gibraltar.

    IN fact that is my first inclination after seeing the pathetic Spanish army which is too small. Spain had a full armed forces.

    I think this will be a glitch and require a rule to beef up Spanish forces because its too strong for the allies not to go for it. Using Spain reintroduces the old glitch of forcing the Germans to commit their forces with two parts and weakening the Russian attacks.

    It may even become a standard play to just take out France knowing this gambit, Or conversely, it may become a new standard move to attack Russia on Turn G1, because they are weak. and Let Italy take out France and cover Spain.

    Other problems with these ideas might have some influence with the disposition of Finland and Bulgaria ( which are pro axis). If Germany attacks Russia first, are these nations pinned into neutrality or do they automatically turn axis on a specific turn?  It should work like this, but who knows.

    All i can say is Spain will be very important. Turkey might become important but that depends if they allow a land Bridge for the Turkish Straights  ( like in MB AA). If they do It will be a standard Italian move to take it so Italy can get to Africa quicker.


  • I hope there is a Gibraltar rule that prohibits surface combat ship and transport movement into and out of the Med unless you control it.  That would make Spain even more important.  I agree Spain is too weak.


  • @miamibeach:

    I hope there is a Gibraltar rule that prohibits surface combat ship and transport movement into and out of the Med unless you control it.  That would make Spain even more important.  I agree Spain is too weak.

    I’m rather sure there is.


  • Survive


  • @Imperious:

    I think this will be a glitch and require a rule to beef up Spanish forces because its too strong for the allies not to go for it. Using Spain reintroduces the old glitch of forcing the Germans to commit their forces with two parts and weakening the Russian attacks.

    The problem is that Spain should have 2 or better 3 territories to prevent that glitch. And also convert all Spanish units and territories to the oppossite side that attacked

  • '17 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    The problem is that Spain should have 2 or better 3 territories to prevent that glitch.

    or a more realistic starting armed forces. The problem is the Allies just invade the space next to france and it would be had to make one that does not also link to a sea zone.

    I don’t know the rules for neutrals but i see this glitch looming in the distance because in the old 84 MB AA days that was the key way the allies won… just like Wellington did during his Peninsular campaign against Napoleon. It offers a permanent base to attack France, Italy or Africa. Take it and build a minor and you got 3 tanks cranking out, or 3 ships to wipe out Italy.


  • Hmmm… Well maybe. But also think of it this way. If I’m thinking where to invade and the german player has put, say, 6 inf on normandy and another 6 on southern france, why would I take out 6 inf that aren’t my enemy and then have 12 inf to worry about? I would probably just take down the 6 german ones rather than the 6 spanish ones. So then you could say that maybe the german player has 10 or so inf on each border. Then maybe a Spanish invasion could be better, but how could you easily prevent that? Just put like a counter-attack force of tanks and a little airforce in paris or something (which kind of makes sense b/c Germany didn’t defend france with just inf even though we like to do that in a and a). The thing is, we will have to play this game differently than in the past. Although to me it seems weird that the allies can invade neutrals at all when that was kind of out of the question for the governments that make up the allies. Anyone think theres a chance there might be a rule that forbids allied offensives against neutral countries?

  • '17 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    The concept of Spain is one that forces the German player to make a choice: 1) Keep trading France with no prospect of denying the allies a base to keep attacking it and being able to keep forces just for Russia, or 2) Forcing the German player to maintain a constant two front war and having no ‘quiet’ area to even a few turns to get a big punch against Russia.

    Germany can not just keep forces in Germany to fight either threat, but it now has to split its main force in half to cover the new distances from Spain.

    Spain also gives the Allies that one extra space that forces Germany to move infantry into france and it also gives them a place to retreat to when before a sea invasion was to the death.

    That is a huge advantage for the allies.

    Also, Spain is the now preferred shuck to get to Italy out of the war because building a sustainable factory gives the allies a “closer England” protected ( unless Germany gives up any hope to defeat Russia).

    Landing infantry in spain saves the infantry the movement from Atlantic to Mediterranean because of the nature of the sea zones. and the factory component gives the allies even more strength to finish off Italy quickly.

    Now the idea of Italy having easy control over the medd is harder.

    Fortress Malta… seems hardly the issue, but “Fortress Spain”… is the real deal IMO.


  • But if Spain is captured by the allies that gives turkey to the Axis and 8 inf which if germany takes means it is easier to begin with defending France and attacking the SU

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