The Med on G1

Sorry. I don’t usually play 2 hit BB … gimme a sec …

:-?
:o
:P
8)
Okay! Leave the UK Gibraltar BB.
But hit the E MED sz SUB, E CAN sz TRN and all the UK sz schtuff!
You might consider landing the BMR in W EUR
to hit a possible weak US build.

Don’t send too much to Africa … the main Allied objective is Germany.

This is a great topic. I myself have yet to really figure this out, but it’s still fun to speculate!

I guess it really comes down to what you plan to do in Africa: that is more or less commitment. What I mean is, do you attempt to build another TR T1, or just go w/ what you’ve got on the board & hope for the best?

If you build a TR T1, IMO it is too valuable to risk its useless destruction. Therefore your options are limited. You ought to hole up your fleet in Central Med SZ to protect the new build & thenceforth start funneling troops to Africa as long as you can keep the fleet alive. Trading Caucases is a good way to do this but it’s not always possible, and of course you don’t own Gibraltar either! That’s the problem–building any new fleet units for Germany–EVER–is a big risk 'cuz its a lot of IPCs for maybe NO EFFECT! This I believe is a flaw in the original game, since therefore Germany hardly ever has a SUB fleet to speak of…

So what if you go w/ what’s on the board? Well the TR is still very important because it will be the only one you get. To use it as cannon-fodder would be folly, but there is the advantage that you don’t have to guard the Central Med SZ to protect a new TR build on G1. One tactic I’ve tried is hit Gibraltar w/ 1 SUB, 1 FTR & 1 BB, w/ the TR loading an ARM in reserve. Hit the beaches w/ the ARM when the BB is destroyed & take Gibraltar. Here’s the kicker–lose the FTR to the BB counterattack! I know Germany should never lose FTRs, but without CVs, FTRs can’t dfend SZs & the idea is to keep a small fleet alive for later use. Without Gibraltar, the only air units that can hit your fleet is the BMR from UK (+1 BMR from USA too if you failed to take & keep French West Africa, Central Africa, or to keep Libya). Provided you destroyed the SUB at Suez Canal, the UK may–MAY–think twice about hitting your little fleet T1, giving you a chance to escape. The disadvantage of this is the loss of 1 precious FTR, the weakening of your North Sea attack , & the risk to your fleet. The advantages are a slightly larger fleet (add one SUB you would’ve lost), & Gibraltar–a strategic territory. Keep in mind that should you lose the battle vs the UK SUB, or if the UK BMR attacks anyway, you also risk losing an ARM stuck in Gibraltar w/ no hope of escape exept thru Spain!

You could also launch an attack on the UK SUB w/ an amphibious engagement in Egypt. This is too great a risk IMO unless you play w/ 2-hit-BBs in which case it becomes an attractive option. Don’t build a new TR T1 in this case.

There are I’m sure more options but these are the ones that occur to me. I intend to post a topic directed at experts concerning just this particular area. Interested to see the results.

That is all. Return to your posts.

Ozone27

I’ve been wanting to try something but have never had the guts to do it in a game because it goes against basic German strat of never losing planes, and I think it might be a lost cause. But I’ll pitch it to you guys anyway, so you can point out the flaws or what UK would do. It is basically a sacrifice Germany airforce rd 1 here goes: (Assuming RR, 1 hit BB, and Rus reinforce UK sz with sub and tranny)

Hit UK med BB with 2 ftrs
Hit UK sz with 2 ftrs, 1 bom, 1 sub (baltic sz)
Hit E can sz with ftr

Yes you lose tons of ftrs, but here is the catch you move the entire German fleet to W Spain sz, plus tank from Fin to Afr, and 2 inf SE to Afr. So, you have 1 BB, 1 sub, and 2 trns in the W Spain sz and the ability to threaten Afr, UK, Can, US and Brazil.

Now, would UK send ftrs and bom to hit the Ger fleet? And what would UK buy wih its 30?

I think I would hit the fleet as UK with my planes but I’m not sure.
What are your guys thoughts on this strat and how would you play it as UK.

@Dirt:

… After that Japan is virtually unopposed in the Pacific. By running wild I mean taking a TRN, 2 INF and 2 BBs and attack Alaska, Hawaii, Mexico, etc. If you play no counterattack from bombardment (the way it should be), the 2 INFs should be around for a long time.

Long time? There is no way to put the Infs back on sea the same turn, so they are on land for one turn, in which they will/have to be attacked.
So, that long time is approximately 1 round.

Do this until the US put up some decent defence on North America.

A decent enough defense is one or two tanks sitting back until you land.

What else are you going to do with the BBs anyway. Why just park them in Japan sz? Why not have some fun with them? :wink:

Sure, but why the pacific? Why not… India? The Indian Ocean, South and North Atlantic are much more fun for teh Japanese fleet: ANd when they strike there with two Inf, it is much more probable that these two Infs are not instantly killed in a retaliation attack,as forces are thin there (Asia/Africa).

@Dirt:

In 1HBB I’ll sink the UK Med BB in a heart beat. In 2HBB it’s risky. Think about it: would you go after the UK sz fleet on G2, with or without the UK BB in it?

@Dirt:

But you don’t go after UK sz in G2 anyway, with or without the BB. That’s why it may be better to concentrate on the UK sz on G1 and ignore the Med BB to reduce plane losses.

Then, why the question first? A british BB in the North sea can beef up any british attack on EE, Norway, Karelia quite a bit. I would not like that.

To fight the british Med BB, i would use the german Med BB, plus something to increase my odds of winning. Then one or two hit does not really make such a difference. (I like taking Gibraltar and put some more (like two) Infs to the African east coast, to prevent an initial US landing there.)

Sounds like an idea. It forces the Allies to play a different strategy. Your eastern front will ahve to be defensive, probably…. but you gain initiative in the Atlantic…
if i had the time, i would think more about it :)

D_mus,
What if the 2 hit BB survives … so that your forces are split. The BAL sz TRN is toast as is the W SPA sz SUB!
Or if the UK sz attack fails … shorting you 1 TRN. The Kreigsmarine is in dire straights. :cry:

I believe I would build the CV and TRN (or maybe a SUB, depending on what air force Germany had left and what Navy I thought they would have when I was done. :evil:

F_k,
I can see D_B_'s idea.
Use the 2 INF to take HAW with a BB and you likely still have 2 INF (or 1 INF)
(1 INF) Take NZ on the next turn.
(2 INF) Take Alaska if no FTRs/ARM in range. (and the US player doesn’t build in W US move units to W CAN, E CAN and then shuffle them to W EUR.)

But I use the IND-Africa IJN move myself most of the time.

Wait a minute–land units get a counter vs. a BB bombardment? That’s not how we’ve ever played! At first we played that the bombardment casualties are normal casualties that get a counter, but only vs. the land units in the attack. Then when I got the computer game it was obvious that we were wrong & BB bombard casualties got NO counter. Now you’re telling me the original was right all along??? If that’s true then I’m really p***ed at the computer game, which I thought was more-or-less official, at least barring bugs & it’s ignorance of the Suez Canal rule!

:evil: :evil: :evil:

Ozone27

D_B_,
No. No one will correct you!
We are all gods*!
Gods are perfekt as you nkow.

*Except for F_k and F_S who have rejected their godhood!
Or are you one of those A[whatever]ists, too, D_B_ ? :P

I know I am! :roll:

@Dirt:

Ok. Hit where the US cannot counter on its turn. If there are no landing spots, then turn around and go home. The point is to distract the US anyway and with 2BBs US has to put up better defence in the Pacific.

After US1, with not much distraction (say 5 IPCs for a tank), there is not too much space left to do that. I would say: there is none left.
The US will start their “shuttle service” with Infs built in Eastern US. Not big change to the overall strategy.
So, once you have landed/tried to land somewhere, you will need to replenish those Infs that you lost in that attack.

@F_alk:

Sure, but why the pacific? Why not… India?

Yes, yes. The point is to use the BBs, especially their bombardment.

But with a single (or two) shots before the amph assault, you would prefer to take on countries that do not have more than one or two defending units. 2 Infs attacking 1 Inf have the odds on their side, but are very likely to lose 1 Inf themselves. So, you kind of depend on the shots, which happen exactly once: nothing to rely too much on, i would say, unless you want to strafe.

Having the Med UK BB means almost one extra casualty per amph asslt from UK (and it do get to fire back). But in 2HBB trying kill the BB could mean one extra German plane loss (I’m guessing you send a plane to kill the Med BB too?). Thats almost one extra casualty per round of defending. I would rather keep the plane and suffer bombardment.

I guess you don’t believe in buying a TRN on G1?

First: if i send my BB on the the british one on G1, there is no cannon fodder with the UK ship, that means two succesful attacks and its over. Assume i take the Tranny, the BB and a fighter to attack, that ship should be dead at the expense of the Tranny.

So, i like to build Trannies for Germany, but usually i don’t play 2H BBs, so for that my “standard G1” has to be modified anyway.

For your “per round of defending” and “per amph assault”:
The first only is important if there are more defending forces with it, or you attack with just a few pieces. The second can become costly, when the UK starts to assault with 1 Inf each round (sey W.E.). He will lose that one, but chances are that i lose up to two Infs as Germany. Plus: I always have to put an “extra” Inf to EE. So, i have to commit units worth 6 IPCs just because of that threat, plus i have to replace any losses. That can turn up to be as much worth as a fighter in a single round.
I really prefer to see that british BB dead on G1.

@Dirt:

@F_alk:

After US1, with not much distraction (say 5 IPCs for a tank), there is not too much space left to do that. I would say: there is none left.

Yes, make the US “fill in the blanks” in North America. :)

That’s a delay of 1 turn. I doubt that in many situations this turns out to be the one decisive turn.

I can see BBs attacking India and retaking Africa, but would you really send your fleet to North Atlantic? I guess you were just exaggerating or being sarcastic? :-?

Not really. It might turn longer, but it is the only force to threaten the allied navy in the Atlantic. Depending on your way tehre, you can threat Brasil, or go through the Med.

@F_alk:

Do you build the trannie on G1? With you BB moved it will be killed by UK1 bomber no?

Depends: I like to take Gibraltar on G1 as well (sacrifing a plane if i need to in the battle with the BB). The bomber then has to land either in syria or egypt. Do it, i still have one tranny to reach you there :). So: yes, i can lose the newly built tranny, but the UK will lose more if they want to take it.

Yeah, I’m filp-flopping on this issue (see my earlier post). You’re right, losing 1 INF per turn could end up costing more than saving a plane. With 1HBB I’ll definitely kill the Med BB. In 2HBB it’s more problematic, and in the cd it won’t let you take Gib after killing the BB. :o

Not? What a stupid bug. Can you any amph assault through a sea zone you had to fight your way through?