USA spreading out in both pacific AND Atlantic.


  • I have followed the posts here for a long time. And now I gues’s my time to start a new topic (I haven’t seen this).

    As american I hate to leave the Pacific uncontested to Japan. But it’s also my experience that UK can really need an extra hand in the african and european theatres.

    I always play with NOs, no tech, dice

    My preferred plan is all out attack in Pacific with transport buy every round and lots of carriers. But I can’t seem to spare some gold to be used in the Atlantic!

    I would love some input here… How do you spead out and still contest the Pacific?


  • 1 AC for Atlantic first round (rest of money for Pacific) that will follow UK’s fleet steps. Then, a ocassional bomber or a couple of infs if the starting trannie has free hands

    That’s my approach


  • I do what you do for the most part. What I do with the UK is spend the first 2 turns building up the UK navy, I find that this allows it to become large enough to be mostly independent. The US may have to provide the occasional destroyer or in extreme cases a carrier but I find that there are turns while pursuing a Pacific Navy strategy with the US where they may not be able to safely build ships, so I build some planes for Pacific carriers that will be built on the next turn and buy ships if needed for the Atlantic.


  • Thanks. It all sounds very sound.

    But what about ferrying troops to Africa with the US? If Africa goes down, then the UK economy goes down with it.
    And UK has to earn something to make that 2nd front count - or USSR will be overrun…

    Last game I played, I bought 3 bombers with US in round 1 and sent them after the italian fleet and then continued eastwards through the middleeast to bother the japanese from that direction. And from round 2 all pacific buys. Worked okay
    The idea was to help the UK in Africa and still not commit the forces solely to the atlantic. And bombers are good at that hence their long range. Downside was obviously no transports in Pacific this round.

    Ideally I would like to ferry troops to Africa every round with US until it is secured - But can I afford it in the pacific with that gigantic japanese fleet, that I have to beat in order to liberate Philipines, East Indies, Borneo etc.e the japanese away fr

    I agree with those who gladly sacrifice a transport once in a while (or often) to take an objective in the pacific in order to force the japanese away from the mainland and eventually Russia.


  • yes, you are highlighting the <many>challenges involved in running USA in AA50.

    USA used to be easy to play:  establish the Atlantic chain and pump out the units in conjunction with the other allies to KGF  (Kill Germany First).  Many players still employ this Revised strategy in AA50.  And for the most part, it will still work.  In other words, you can still ignore Japan, but the consequences are a bit more harsh on the allies in AA50.  Also, a good Axis player can survive the KGF allied move by helping Germany long enough for Japan to grow into ‘Godzilla’.  Hard to stop a country making 70+ a turn.

    So unless Japan stumbles a bit J1, creating and maintaining a USA presence in the Pacfiic is a fine balance between aiding the European Allies and building opposition to Japan.  There is no ‘standard’ answer to your questions… alot depends on what Japan decides to do.  If Japan comes after USA, al she might be able to do is defend the Western coast.  Obviously, this does slow Japans advance on Russia (chin/india).

    It’s mostly a very reactive game for USA now in the Pacific for two reasons.  Japan continues to take their turn before USA and the IJN (Imperial Japanese Navy) is initially vastly superior to the USA navy.</many>


  • My assumption is, that Japs go after Borneo, East Indies, HongKong and either Philipines or Burma J1. And of course takes care of west coast dd/transport + BB on Hawaii. And buys either IC in Thailand or 2 transports in Sea of Japan.

    And I absolutely think it is much more fun to fight in the pacific with USA. I never enjoyed those KGF games… not now ,not in earlier versions of the game.
    I love to try to balance the game out on the entire board, and not let one power run wild.

    I just saw a post about buying a US IC in Brazil 1st round and find the idea tempting…… It’s a cheap, fast and secure way to shuck troops to Africa without committing too much economy to the Atlantic theatre. This way US should still be able to spend almost all of it’s income on building the pacicif fleet!


  • Ignoring Japan only can work with a Egypt bid. Sadly, you cannot play without a bid, and any bid that could go to Asia and solve where the game is broken will go to Egypt instead and will broke the area that was not broken

    Hint: play 1942 scenario and limit the bid to Asia

  • '16 '15 '10

    @General:

    My assumption is, that Japs go after Borneo, East Indies, HongKong and either Philipines or Burma J1. And of course takes care of west coast dd/transport + BB on Hawaii. And buys either IC in Thailand or 2 transports in Sea of Japan.

    And I absolutely think it is much more fun to fight in the pacific with USA. I never enjoyed those KGF games… not now ,not in earlier versions of the game.
    I love to try to balance the game out on the entire board, and not let one power run wild.

    I just saw a post about buying a US IC in Brazil 1st round and find the idea tempting…… It’s a cheap, fast and secure way to shuck troops to Africa without committing too much economy to the Atlantic theatre. This way US should still be able to spend almost all of it’s income on building the pacicif fleet!

    I don’t like the logic of the Brazil factory.  Why pump troops through the Congo when Italy’s national objectives are in North Africa and Egypt is a critical territory for UK financially?

    Don’t have an answer re. the USA’s dilemma.  Granted, Allies are not likely to win if they don’t have a plan to secure Africa.  And USA gets to see what Germany and Italy do first.

    Assuming good moves on J1, I prefer to get in Germany/Italy’s face with USA rather than take the time to build up Pac fleet.  However, if Allies choose KGF they must play hella aggressive as time is on the side of the Axis.

    In my experience USA Pac tactics can be as effective as KGF tactics but the returns depend on the Japanese player’s skills.


  • @Funcioneta:

    Ignoring Japan only can work with a Egypt bid.

    I don’t agree with this statement as an absolute truth.  KGF can be very effective:
    If Germany starts poorly or Russia plays well, Germany can be contained in plenty of time before Japan can put enough serious pressure on Russia to swing the game to the Axis.

    Also, early Allied pressure into Africa (round 1 or big push round 2) means allied support / control of Africa, early enough to get to persia when the Japanese are beginning to threaten on that front.


    Too many variables to agree that without a bid, KGF (ignore Japan) will not work for the allies


  • Should we say Pacific or Indian Ocean? Pacific itself have some key points but what makes Japan a Godzilla is that Indian Ocean push. For the allies, I’d say the main region you want to defend is the whole Indian Ocean coast line, from SA to India to Australia.

    While the need to defend UK’s Indian Ocean belt is obvious, people generally are not too fond of UK having an IC in either of theses 3 territories mentionned above.

    Personally, I don’t see how the USA can be really able to threathen Japan seriously without Uk assistance, and for that you need an IC.

    So the overall question should be how to split UK and USA between both theaters, and at some extent how can Russia be flexible enough to patch the holes.

    While I don’t have the clear answer, the games I have won turned around allies successfully defending/retaking UK income.

    P’S: Zhukov, I still hope you will give me a rematch 🙂


  • I too tend to like a balanced game and ever since I developed a hell of an aggressive posture towards the US with Japan my gaming group has started to copy it. What I have therefore found is that getting Torch going is key and then focus on the Pacific. With a small force of one AC a couple destroyers and a cruiser or two if you can afford it will allow you a devastating force into Africa. Your transports can move to the coast of Canada pick up fresh US troops and return to North Africa in a single turn. Hardly anyone seems to realize or utilize this. This allows two transports to pump a lot of fresh troops into Morocco and force the Italians to continually move here to retake their NO. You can then focus your efforts on the Pacific. Build that air-force initially as it helps you to build your navy and keep the IJN honest. Retake your bonus and/or the British bonus as soon as possible. If only to force the IJN to retake islands and buy the allies time.

    I wanted to mention that we do not play with a bid but have made a couple rules to help balance things.

    1. Chinese infantry are allowed to defend on 3 when on any non-coastal territory. This allows them to stay around a lot longer and often causes the Japanese to not take them out entirely without really pushing for it. We also give the Chinese another infantry with their fighter to ensure it does not get killed off on J1.

    2. Russian Trans-Siberian railway. During the non-combat move for the Russians they may move their land units two territories along a chain of territories to the east. This helps them get the men out there when needed without having to be a few turns ahead of the Japanese, this allows them to keep their men west for as long as they need them.

    3. The straights. We play with the non-passable straight through Turkey to either side. This significantly helps the Russians. We also play with one that allows control into and out of the Mediterranean for whoever controls Gibraltar. This one is fun as it encourages a lot of fighting and build ups in Gibraltar which can often then be used by the allies to perform a strong push in Europe or Africa by using some of the built up troops. The last one favours both the British and Germans by closing the Baltic to whoever controls NW Europe. This can protect both fleets and encourages fighting over this other wise less strategic territory.

    4. we have been experimenting with putting the Gobi desert in which does not allow movement between Russian and the back of China. This so far is proving well but has not received enough play testing to offer conclusive arguments. However, I will say that the Japanese have been less Leary to clean out defense 3 infantry from a dead end that they must then walk back out of.


  • @axis_roll:

    @Funcioneta:

    Ignoring Japan only can work with a Egypt bid.

    I don’t agree with this statement as an absolute truth.  KGF can be very effective:
    If Germany starts poorly or Russia plays well, Germany can be contained in plenty of time before Japan can put enough serious pressure on Russia to swing the game to the Axis. Also, early Allied pressure into Africa (round 1 or big push round 2) means allied support / control of Africa, early enough to get to persia when the Japanese are beginning to threaten on that front


    Too many variables to agree that without a bid, KGF (ignore Japan) will not work for the allies

    My point is that without a bid, no wonder what do you do: allies don’t have a chance in a normal game. As you said, you need that Germany starts poorly or soviets play well (latter is very true, an agressive USSR is key for a succesful KGF), and you cannot count on bad german dices. Other thing is that Japan can assault mainland America and prevent USA aiding Europe, but that’s another issue (I guess that some subs can slow Japan a bit but then is less IPCs going to Europe)


  • Sorry Funcioneta, that is just straight BS. I have won enough Allied games without a bid and without bad results for the Axis on round one to know it is BS.

    I think you have expended too much effort on trying to change China and stuff and not enough time trying to crack the problem that playing the Allies presents in AA50. There are solutions but they are not readily apparent.


  • @Corbeau:

    Should we say Pacific or Indian Ocean? Pacific itself have some key points but what makes Japan a Godzilla is that Indian Ocean push. For the allies, I’d say the main region you want to defend is the whole Indian Ocean coast line, from SA to India to Australia.

    While the need to defend UK’s Indian Ocean belt is obvious, people generally are not too fond of UK having an IC in either of theses 3 territories mentionned above.

    Personally, I don’t see how the USA can be really able to threathen Japan seriously without Uk assistance, and for that you need an IC.

    So the overall question should be how to split UK and USA between both theaters, and at some extent how can Russia be flexible enough to patch the holes.

    While I don’t have the clear answer, the games I have won turned around allies successfully defending/retaking UK income.

    P’S: Zhukov, I still hope you will give me a rematch 🙂

    I absolutely agree to the above…. But how?
    A UK IC is a heavy investment that can take the edge of that vital second front in Europe.
    And still it is a wet dream for any UK player to be able to have a small fleet in, say, the Indian Ocean! It’s always that same question of having the money to pay for 2 fronts.

    So if USA plays in both theatres and UK does the same… maybe if they coordinate really well, it will all work out?!
    SOnds like the perfect option to me… if I can make it work 🙂

  • '16 '15 '10

    My last tourney oppo used an Allied strat where UK and USA engage both Japan and Germany

    http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=18275.0

    In the end, he sent USA mostly after Japan, and this helped Germany overcome early bad luck and turn Europe evil.

    The “balanced approach” has its merits if you can successfully keep both Germany and Japan from developing the sort of force that can destroy Russia.  However, Axis still have long game advantages even if Allies are contesting every section of the board.  In this regard, Africa is especially critical.  Against some opponents, it’s probably possible to build India and temporarily concede Africa.  Against others, allowing Axis that sort of cash influx will spell doom for the good guys.


  • The key to me with the UK is to write off India for the start of the game. There is more money in Africa and an IC in India merely ties down the British. I have found by sending the UK in force across Africa I can confront Japan in Persia with a significant force when the time comes.

    I know it is supposedly game over when Germany takes Russia. I have found with the strategy that I use it is not necessarily the case. Japan has been occupied fighting the US and after a few rounds the UK. Italy is not getting NOs so it tends to be irrelevant. What tends to happen is that when Germany does take down Russia it has lost enough units that a stalemate starts to develop. The US has Japan under containment and can start sending forces to Europe to tip the balance in the stalemate.

    My Allied play is a slow and methodical approach and I think that this is best used by either side in AA50. In Revised the Allies had the advantage in a long game. Inf AA50 that advantage can go either way and I find the side that has set itself up to play the long game benefits more than the side that tries to do things quick.


  • @a44bigdog:

    I think you have expended too much effort on trying to change China and stuff and not enough time trying to crack the problem that playing the Allies presents in AA50. There are solutions but they are not readily apparent.

    Say them (without bid, of course)


  • I always want an IC in India, but it seems like J2 I always loose India so I never build an IC there. Has anybody ever tried a house rule that gives the UK an Indian IC at the beginning of the game? It seems like that would make it possible to hang onto it if Japan comes after you hard. Then you would also have a good base to defend the Indian Ocean and pump troops into Egypt.


  • @Funcioneta:

    @a44bigdog:

    I think you have expended too much effort on trying to change China and stuff and not enough time trying to crack the problem that playing the Allies presents in AA50. There are solutions but they are not readily apparent.

    Say them (without bid, of course)

    a44 already gave some of his ideas there.

    http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=16781.0

    I believe that this approach is quite good.

    But generally, I think that this game requires a lot of adaptation since the number of dices involved in round 1 by the japanese and german attacks make a lot of games different.

    For instance, having succes in all their attack for Japan and Germany does not have a high probability…

  • '21 '18

    Here is what I did in my last game against one of my good friend.

    Soviet Union
    -Stacked Karelia with everything in range to make it’s capture costly.
    -Sent 3 Inf in China to battle the Japanese and added a tank on turn two. Surprinsingly, they lasted many turns and helped China to have as much as 12 Inf on the board at one time.
    -Sent one Inf (sometime two) to Persia to back the British in India/Middle East.

    United Kingdom
    -Resisted German attack on Egypt and killed some Italian troops on UK1!
    -Tryed to kill the four German Inf in Finland but missed two of them.
    -Built a lot of Cruisers to protect future US transport landing off the Morrocan coast and to make shore bombardment in future UK landing on occupied Europe.

    United States
    -I built two transports to join the one already in place to land 6 units a turn in Africa.
    -All the rest of my IPC were spent in the Pacific
    -The two bombers were sent to London and then to Africa to bomb Italy/Germany and also to harass the italian Fleet.

    The game was one of the most excited one I ever played. Every area of the board was contested. My opponent event landed in Alaska at one moment. In the Pacific, My 3 carriers, 2 Destroyers, 1 Sub US fleet raided, with the UK fleet from Autralia, the Salomons, Iwo Jima, the Phillipines and Java. Japan was contested in China by plenty of Chineese troops supported by Russians and British troops. Southern Asia wasn’t heavily contested because Japan has his hands full in China and in Northern Russia where it attacked the Russian stack on J1.

    In Europe, Germany lost many planes to the Royal Navy on G1 but established a strong presence in Russia, menacing Karelia and capturing Caucasus on turn 2! But Caucasus was taken back and my friend killed many of his best troops to get Karelia after that. The 6 surviving Panzers were then mopped by a UK landing.

    UK was landing everywhere, got Scandinavia and Germany, lost a lot of times to fight the fires that were lighten everywhere.

    The Soviet Union rebuilt his army and established strongly in Estern Poland and grabbed Romania or Poland now and then.

    Italy had her hands full with the US landings in Northern Africa and got it’s battleship and two transports sunk by an audacious UK air raid. I tryed a lot to kill isolated axis troops in Africa, sometime with air raids alone to avoid losing african IPC to them. The American troops were directed toward the Middle East to ultimately fight the Japanese in the Far East!

    In the last three turns of the game, all of the allies got all of their NOs and Germany and Japan were able to get only one. My friend gave up after that. It was a very good game that lasted four hours. Me and my friend had a lot of fun and I cannot help but think that it wouldn’t have been the same if we had followed the same old KGF patterns.


  • Sounds like the allies won some key battles to really help them:

    • German ftrs lost to UK fleet

    • Egypt was held

    • an audacious UK air raid sunk the Italian navy

    Good for you!
    The allies need some breaks to win in 1941.

    Sometime, you just have to manufacture them (like your battle in the Med)


  • In my most recent tournament game against Zhukov I employed a Pacific/Atlantic spread with the Allies that was going pretty well in my estimation until I overlooked a couple Italian tanks that broke a hole through my Russian defenses for the German tanks to get to Moscow.  Had I not made that mistake I think I would have prevailed as the Allies as I never lost the economic advantage and was making headway on most fronts.

    I had a bid of 9 and placed 2 infantry in Egypt and 1 in Belorussia.  The extra infantry in Egypt were certainly advantageous for me as it held off the Axis long enough for me to destroy the Italian navy and completely push the Axis out of Africa.  A couple things I did that I’m going to explore more were:
    1. Built a South Africa IC - This might not be the best/most essential part, but I thought it was necessary with the US going mostly into the Pacific, so there would be no reinforcements to Africa
    2. Built 2 bombers for the UK for use against the Italian fleet - Having the 3rd that most people going for the bomber heavy UK1 turn would have been helpful as the Axis took Gibraltar to keep me from using my fighters for support in taking out the Italian navy, but I got a little lucky and was able to take it out anyway with the 3 UK bombers alone
    3. Built 1 American carrier for defensive support of the UK in the Atlantic and sent the US transport toward Norway - my thoughts were that I could get 5 extra IPCs for the US to help them there and have the opportunity to build an IC for the US to place some land units in Europe while their navy was in the Pacific

    It may have been a fluke as it may have gone much differently if I hadn’t gotten relatively lucky in destroying the Italian navy with the UK bombers, but I was happy with the progression as I was able to complete Operation Torch to drive out the Germans and Italians in Africa, and began to weaken the Japanese and boost the UK in the Pacific with the US taking strategic islands.  If I had been able to hold on as Russia for another turn or two perhaps (as I thought I would be able to do), I think I could’ve begun to reinforce Russia and start whittling down Europe.  After all of the negative talk about KGF being the only viable strategy with AAAE being broken and needing a large bid for a Global/Pacific campaign to work, I was quite encouraged by this game (even if it looks like I’ll probably lose now in the end with my Russian catastrophe).  Considering it was a tournament game I probably “shoul’ve” 😉 gone with a more “efficient” KGF strategy, but I enjoyed it as it went even if it may not have been the most reliable strategy.

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