USSR Baltic Navy?

Then the russians are trapped in the baltic since they can’t control denmark

This is a Q & A w/Larry, thought it might help.

Q :I also hope that Germany is represented as it was historically, (northern tip below Denmark) to give it access to an expanded North sea (2 sz)
A: It is.
Q: The Baltic should also be min 2sz IMO.
A: It has 3 sea zones.

So I would say its possible that Russia might start with a small navy in the Baltic. I think there will be some convoy’s there too.

I really hope we don’t have convoys next to Leningrad or this is going to be as ridiculous like that India convoy in AAP40 after UK is reduced to India (and to those that only are there as recognition for their war effort, but they are 1 IPC and India is 3 IPCs). Other option is making USSR inmune to convoy raids as China is (but not ACME walls for soviets, please)

@Funcioneta:

I really hope we don’t have convoys next to Leningrad or this is going to be as ridiculous like that India convoy in AAP40 after UK is reduced to India (and to those that only are there as recognition for their war effort, but they are 1 IPC and India is 3 IPCs). Other option is making USSR inmune to convoy raids as China is (but not ACME walls for soviets, please)

How come you shouldn’t have convoys next to valuable places? If India is blockaded by ships, they can’t afford to supply an army

There may be a Russian Black Sea fleet fleet, which would be useless since they can’t leave, except to bombard, but I doubt they’ll have a CC or BB, and they definetly won’t buy one

@calvinhobbesliker:

@Funcioneta:

I really hope we don’t have convoys next to Leningrad or this is going to be as ridiculous like that India convoy in AAP40 after UK is reduced to India (and to those that only are there as recognition for their war effort, but they are 1 IPC and India is 3 IPCs). Other option is making USSR inmune to convoy raids as China is (but not ACME walls for soviets, please)

How come you shouldn’t have convoys next to valuable places? If India is blockaded by ships, they can’t afford to supply an army

Well, it IS rather silly that you can reduce India to less than 3.  IMO the convoy zones should not apply to the capital territory (japan, england) or a major continental territory (germany, West US, East US)  - only islands or smaller isolated territories (norway, sweden, finland, cuba, brazil, african nations, etc).  As a simplification they’re not shipping out at the tha major cities; they’re relying on shipping in, so why reduce the capital?  Western US probably wouldn’t use ships to transport goods to itself if it was surrounded by subs - there’s rail lines after all.

So I would hope Russia isn’t reduced in the baltic (although lend lease should be able to be messed up in the atlantic).

@kcdzim:

@calvinhobbesliker:

@Funcioneta:

I really hope we don’t have convoys next to Leningrad or this is going to be as ridiculous like that India convoy in AAP40 after UK is reduced to India (and to those that only are there as recognition for their war effort, but they are 1 IPC and India is 3 IPCs). Other option is making USSR inmune to convoy raids as China is (but not ACME walls for soviets, please)

How come you shouldn’t have convoys next to valuable places? If India is blockaded by ships, they can’t afford to supply an army

Well, it IS rather silly that you can reduce India to less than 3.  IMO the convoy zones should not apply to the capital territory (japan, england) or a major continental territory (germany, West US, East US)  - only islands or smaller isolated territories (norway, sweden, finland, cuba, brazil, african nations, etc).  As a simplification they’re not shipping out at the tha major cities; they’re relying on shipping in, so why reduce the capital?  Western US probably wouldn’t use ships to transport goods to itself if it was surrounded by subs - there’s rail lines after all.

So I would hope Russia isn’t reduced in the baltic (although lend lease should be able to be messed up in the atlantic).

My rationalization is that those ships impose a blockade that prevents the people from getting food; thus the ipc’s are wasted on buying more food than on war

@calvinhobbesliker:

My rationalization is that those ships impose a blockade that prevents the people from getting food; thus the ipc’s are wasted on buying more food than on war

But again, that would apply only to island nations.  Germany and Russia weren’t importing food across the Baltic.  Australia, the US, Germany and Russia would be largely self sufficient as their bread baskets and agricultural centers would be located on the continent.  I could see the blockade applying that way for Britain and Japan, although I thought Japan was also fairly self sufficient with food, it was the problem in reverse - failure to safely send food to the pacific islands caused famine.  It might be argued that ipcs are wasted that way, but to me that seems like the point of interdiction on the islands, not Japan proper.  Britain however did need food aid, yes.

@kcdzim:

@calvinhobbesliker:

My rationalization is that those ships impose a blockade that prevents the people from getting food; thus the ipc’s are wasted on buying more food than on war

But again, that would apply only to island nations.  Germany and Russia weren’t importing food across the Baltic.  Australia, the US, Germany and Russia would be largely self sufficient as their bread baskets and agricultural centers would be located on the continent.  I could see the blockade applying that way for Britain and Japan, although I thought Japan was also fairly self sufficient with food, it was the problem in reverse - failure to safely send food to the pacific islands caused famine.  It might be argued that ipcs are wasted that way, but to me that seems like the point of interdiction on the islands, not Japan proper.  Britain however did need food aid, yes.

Yes, the American continent has food, but much of it comes from oversees. If it’s blockaded, ipc’s have to be spent to make it up

Probably there will be a convoy next to Germany. It has sense losing IPCs if Germany has Norway but no land connection to it, but it has no sense losing IPCs if there is not a territory non-connected with the capital. At least with the current economic system, of course

Convoy boxes were a better system

Britain had a set tonnage, of transports sunk, that if reached, they would flat out surrender because they would starve.

The book reference is “Blood Tears and Folly”.

I beleive it was calculated monthly, and the number was 625,000 tonnes sunk = churchill surrenders.

Twice I think the Gerries claimed they were above 500,000. though it was probably more like 400,000.

I think 600,000 even if achieved, wouldn’t have garunteed the end. But England wouldn’t have lasted much longer before the public was screaming for an armistice.

So ABSOLUTELY. Convoys around an island capital, should be paramount.

Yea that sounds about right M I R. Maybe just 2 subs, and many others scattered in the Atlantic. Germany getting a BB is a no brainier, hope its there  :evil:

@Make_It_Round:

It looks like the Baltic might get split into two sea zones on the new Europe '40 map.

If it does, there seems to be a good chance for the USSR to finally get some sea units to start off with in the northern Baltic. Destroying Russian sea units here was, historically, a priority in Operation Barbarossa.

What will these be? A destroyer+transport classic Axis bait set-up? Or something more substantial (cruiser) or sneaky (sub)?

assuming the euro game uses the same ratios as the pacific game then ussr navy will be the following

USSR’s game navy: 0 battleships, 0 cruisers, 2 destroyers, 0 carriers, 2 subs
i do not know how transports were calculated for the game so can not make an estimate
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=18414.0

historicly ussr navy was split between the baltic, black sea, and barents sea. i am guessing that the ussr will not have any navy in the baltic to start the game.

@Make_It_Round:

The map detail and unit set-up are about 2x Anniversary scale in the '40 games…

Any guesses as to what the German navy in the baltic will look like?

(I’m thinking it’ll be 2x transports, 1x battleship, 1x cruiser, 1x destroyer 3x  subs or thereabouts.)

germany’s entire euro navy should look like the following.

Germany’s game navy: 1 battleship, 1 cruiser, 1 destroyer, 0 carriers, 7 subs
i do not know how transports were calculated for the game so can not make an estimate
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=18414.0

your guess as to what would be in the baltic looks good, but will be almost the entire g navy

If the Russians have a convoy marker on the map, it will probably be in the Arctic Ocean (Arkangelsk) instead of the Baltic.  Historically, they had a fleet consisting of a couple of old battlecruisers and assorted cruisers, destroyers, and subs trapped in Leningrad.  The Germans did worry that they might try to set sail, but it would probably have been suicide against the Kriegsmarine and Luftwaffe.  The Russians used them as artillery to help defend the city while it was under siege.

Well with the political rules Russia could start with a small navy in the Baltic (dd & sub maybe even a cruiser) and it could survive for 1-2 rounds. Ger and Russ start off as neutral to each other. They can pass through each others sz’s while neutral. Russia could leave the dd in the northern Baltic to keep Germany from using bombardment in an amphib when it does attack. It could also attempt to run from the Baltic to meet up w/UK navy before Germany attacks. If Russia is still neutral to Germany we know they can coexist in the same sz, will the Soviets be able to pass through the German owned Danish straight?