Industry in South Africa

I think the strategy is there and works well i win more than i loose against good axis players.  Wondering if maybe we could setup a team to test and get the timings down.  Figure out how many fighters Russia needs to survive Japanese and German non stop Blitz on Russia.  Also how many bombers are optimal to avoid purchasing too many.  I am not sure if you can have too many bombers they have dual roles to industrial bomb and to support attacking\landing infantry in Western Europe.  Figure out what turn USA needs to quit buying bombers and switch to Naval.

Most people would do it regardless if Ukraine fell or not, but if Ukraine’s FTR is still alive, use the BB to take out the DD, and take the bomber, Ukraine FTR, Libya units and two from Italy.  I don’t have my board, but I think its a tank/inf from Libya, and an inf/tank from Italy, so you have 2(1s), 3(3s), 1(4) vs and inf/tank/FTR (2/3/4)? This is why they may also put the Russian FTR in Egypt to give it that extra 4.  If you lost the FTR in Ukraine AND the Russian FTR is in Egypt, forget about Egypt G1.  Focus on destroying the CA and even the DD (BB for the CA, FTR/Bomber for the DD).  Load up in Libya on G1. The UK FTR and Russian FTR should retreat.

Be wary of one thing.  In an attempt to gain supreme dominance in the Atlantic, I get into a game of toying with the Russians.  Instead of loading my fronts, I actually pull back (I think in E.Europe), and offer bait to the Russians and see if they will land grab all the territories.  This sucks at first because it slows down Germany economy and gives the Russians money, but by spreading thin their lines, you can pour all your troops into one direction (north via Karelia/Archangel or south via Ukrain/Caucus) while Japan comes from behind via China and/or India.

It’s a trial an error thing.

@Col.:

I’m not saying that it expalins everything perfectly, but with how many times he mentioned clarity of the rulebook it sounds more like he jumped into the game without the instructions and is asking for help along the way. It just doesn’t sound like he read it to me.

It’s about learning styles… some of us prefer to learn by reading, others by practice :)

Assuming Japan doesn’t mess up horribly -

A fat Japan threat to Western US heavily slows early Japanese progress in Asia.  Let them threaten.  As soon as they move out of range, W US tanks blitz to E Canada, and W US infantry moves to W Canada preparatory to moving to E Canada for the E Canada-London or E Canada-Algeria drops.

If Japan sends its fleet anywhere but the Pacific region, US and UK both have starting subs that can harass Japanese shipping.  True, a Japanese destroyer or two can greatly decrease the Allied threat, but early Japanese destroyer builds hinder their progress in Asia and Africa.

If Japan heavily commits its fleet to, say, Mediterranean, or sends around South America or Africa, then a few US units in Pacific can really screw with Japan.  Later in the game, if there’s no Japanese navy or air in the region, US can start grabbing those high IPC islands with a transport (just 7 IPCs) while keeping off Japanese naval units with cheap subs.  Japan would be forced to either bring a carrier or battleship back, or build destroyers/subs, plus possibly pulling back fighters to deal with the situation, at which point US could build destroyer/carrier/fighters in Pacific and increase the pressure on Japan.  Once US has its infrastructure set up against Europe, it usually doesn’t need to invest much more expensive IPCs in naval for the Atlantic, freeing resources for Pacific harassment.

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As far as US fighters/bombers moving away from Pacific, there’s two scenarios.

Japan hits Hawaii heavily:  If Japan went to Hawaiian Islands fleet super heavy, you’ll probably see 1 battleship 1 carrier 2 fighters 1 cruiser 1 sub.  (This is possible if sending 3 fighters 1 bomber to Hawaii and taking Japanese air as casualties).  US’s counter of 1 battleship 1 bomber 2 fighters 1 sub (023344, 6 hits at 16 attack) attacking into Japan’s 7 hits (0123444, 7 hits at 18 defense) is not particularly favorable, even if you account for Japan having to sink its fighters before its carrier.  Consider what happens with a bit of bad dice - the US battleship dies plus a load of expensive US air, the Japanese battleship survives, and possibly a Japanese carrier and even a Jap fighter.

Japan hits Hawaii lightly:  US air doesn’t have anything good to hit in Pacific anyways.

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Of course the Axis have some counter to everything Allies do, and vice versa.  If there weren’t counters, then the game wouldn’t be particularly interesting; you’d just spam the attack for which there was no reasonable response, and you’d win every time.

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IF Japan screws up or has super lousy dice and looks to lose at least 2 of its 4 battleship/carriers by the beginning of J2, then US can think about KJF (Kill Japan First).  Otherwise, I’d send US air towards Atlantic ASAP to help in whacking the German battleship.  Ideally, you want to whack the German battleship on UK2/US2 at the latest.

ok so i’m hearing that you might as well do whatever damage you can with your india fleet, because it’ll either die regardless, or arrive to another theater too late to be of great effect.  sounds reasonable.  in one game i put the india fleet in the med because G didn’t take egypt, and from there i could threaten a (albeit small) landing in southern europe, balkans, or ukraine.  this forced him to keep 3-4 units at least in each of those territories and i found it to be a nice little advantage.  i’m guessing the protip there is that you can be MORE effective/annoying elsewhere with those ships though, huh?

thanks to bunnies for always answering my questions and hobbes for always providing strategical perspective  :-)

Nice first post.  Good looking custom avvie, pix, all that stuff.

Hello i was curious about how Industrial Complexes work?  Well they’re complexes, so it’s complicated.  But generally I just load them into a small slingshot.  That tends to work the best.  Some people use airguns, but then you have to worry about cat pee.  Don’t ask.  Just trust me on this. I mean can you spawn unlimited ammount of IPC’s? Each player starts with a number of IPCs based on the territory they control.  The number of IPCs a country STARTS with is listed in the upper right hand corner of the setup card.  Russia gets 24 starting IPCs, Germany 40, UK 30, Japan 30, US 42.And also how does IPC’s work? I bought the game for Christmas and had some of the buddies come over and well we have put hours of time to get everything right and were still struggling with the IPC’s? and the Industial Complexes and how they work?  At the beginning of your turn, you have a number of IPCs in your country’s “bank”.  You purchase as many units as you like, so long as you have IPCs.  The cost of the units can be found in the lower right hand corner of your game board.  For example, infantry cost 3 IPCs, tanks cost 5 IPCs.

so basic things like…

1. How many units can spawn on a complex? (saying the Complex is in Moscow which = 8 )  A complex on Moscow can normally produce 8 units a turn, never more than that.  A complex on Caucasus can normally produce 4 units a turn, never more than that.  If your industrial complex has been damaged by enemy industrial complex bombing, your industrial complex will not be able to produce as many units as normal.  The rules for industrial bombing are on page 14 of the rulebook.  Damage on an industrial complex stays until the damage is repaired. 
2. IPC’s are they just the #'s on the territories? No.  For example, say Russia starts a turn with 24 IPCs (Industrial Production Certificates) and purchases 4 tanks costing 20 IPCs.  It then has 4 IPCs left that it has not spent.  Say at the end of the turn Russia controls territories that produce a combined value of 28 Industrial Production Certificates.  (The territories PRODUCE IPCs, but they are NOT THEMSELVES IPCs).  Russia will then collect 28 IPCs and have a total of 32 IPCs, even though it only controls territories that produce 28 IPCs worth.  If Germany takes some of those territories from Russia later, or if UK recaptures that territory from Germany, makes no difference to the IPCs the Russian player holds.  Once the Russian player holds the IPCs, they don’t change, until the Russian player either uses those IPCs to repair industrial complexes or produce units. 
3. I love Russia and want to dominate but… how can i over come both germany and japan?! (its like a sandwich) There’s a few ways, have fun with it.  Browse the forums, ask questions.  Since most of the game is about answering this very question, and since it’s a fairly complex game that involves a lot of chance, it doesn’t have a simple answer I can give in a short post.  I’m not sure I even know the answer.
4. How many complexes can be bought in total? (like you can only buy whats there? or more?) You’re probably asking because you’re concerned about strategy limitations, such as when trying to control the number of houses on properties in Monopoly, to prevent other players from accessing hotels.  This much I can say - you get “enough” industrial complexes with the game.  (Unlike chips.)  Industrial complexes are expensive and take a while to get any use out of; if you build a lot, your opponent will just beat you up and take your territories.  So you generally build just a couple, if any.  (If the Allies are strong in Europe, an industrial complex usually goes up in Western Europe and/or Norway. If the Allies are strong in the Pacific, an industrial complex often goes up in Borneo, or one of the other high IPC islands.  Japan often builds one in French Indochina and either India or Kwangtung.  Germany sometimes (rarely) puts one in Ukraine. In some games, UK puts one in India, Anglo-Egypt Sudan, Union of South Africa, Australia, or even two of those.  But these are far from common.  Usually you only build industrial complexes if you’re extremely strong, or if you’re extremely weak and you have time to build the industrial complex (takes a turn) and mobilize units (takes another turn) before your opponent runs up to you, beats you up, and takes your territory and industrial complex away.  A good example is India, UK is pretty weak there and finds it hard to get forces there, but it can build an industrial complex to put new units there immediately.  Japan starts weak in the area, so UK has some time to reinforce.  (Eventually, though, if the Japan player is good, India falls, and UK has given up 15 IPCs for an industrial complex that Japan uses.  It’s like giving up 15 IPCs worth of units, and giving your opponent 15 IPCs to build an industrial complex with.  Bad.)
5. Russia what Navy do they have? and how can i get more IPC’s? when Germany get more then me and keeps bringing in new units while im just trying to stay alive. Then i have Japan coming from behind but i can’t do anything because im focused on Germany i need HELP! xDRussia has one submarine, as listed on the setup card.  This is not a mistake.

P.S. Also just curious who gets the red dice and who would get the black dice? Naturally, redheads get the red dice, and brunettes get the black dice.  If there is any question of who should get what color, this is usually easily answered, so long as the questionee is not of a prudish nature.  Bald people and blonde people can use whichever they like.

any helpful LINKS and such that would clear this up would help too!  afro  I think this is pretty much as helpful a forum as there is out there.  I haven’t found any better.

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So you want help for Russia do you?

I’ll help you.  Help you DIE!  (Simpsons reference)

Yeah, well, maybe this is good advice, maybe not.  Try it.

First tip - Allies need to work together.  You can be the best Russian player in the world, and if your UK and US allies are bad, you’re gonna go down.  That’s all there is to it.  It’s best to just accept this as true.

Second tip - pretty much forget the east.  The territories in the east are of low value.  Look at all those 1’s.  Do you really want to die for a bunch of 1’s?  Look to the west.  See all those 2’s and 3’s?  Go west, young man.  Go west.

Third tip - for your first turn (I’ll call this “R1” for Russia’s 1st Turn - “J3” would be Japan’s 3rd Turn, US7 would be US’s 7th Turn . . . - build 4 tanks and 1 artillery, and send 2 fighters and the 3 infantry from Karelia to hit Belorussia, and everything else in range to hit West Russia.  You will win at West Russia unless God hates you.  You will probably win at Belorussia, but be careful.  If your fighters are in danger, run away.  Russian fighters are extremely valuable for trading territory, and very expensive, you can’t really afford more.  For noncombat, move everything in the east towards the west as quickly as possible (2 infantry from Kazakh move to Caucasus, not Moscow, remember “west”, and move the Russian sub to join the UK battleship and transport.  Land fighters in Moscow.  Move the antiaircraft gun from Caucasus to West Russia.)

On Germany’s turn, Germany may attack West Russia, but you will win.  Germany may industrial bomb Caucasus, but you’re about to have a huge income, and there are better targets Germany could have hit with that bomber anyways, so be thankful.  Russia may blitz a tank to Archangel.  That’s fine.  You would have lost Karelia anyways, so all Germany really did was gain a 2 IPC territory with that tank.

On R2, produce 5 infantry 1 artillery 1 tank - basically at least 1 tank, lots of infantry, and a couple of artillery.  Kill the 5 IPC tank; you’ve got plenty of power to spare.  The tank gets a 50/50 chance to kill a 3 IPC infantry.  If it does kill your infantry, Germany broke even on the IPC trade, except for the fact that Germany just wasted a forward placed tank for stuff that’s near the heart of your territory, where you can quickly and easily replace units.  If Germany doesn’t hit, Germany just traded a 5 IPC unit for a 2 IPC territory and a extremely slight positional advantage.  If you have a load of tanks, you just reposition them next turn and Germany basically just looks stupid.

You need a lot of infantry as Russia, because although tanks are strong and mobile, they are expensive.  If you can lose a 3 IPC infantry instead of a 5 IPC tank, it’s much better for you.  Since you start with a load of infantry, you move the tanks from West Russia along with your R1 build of 4 tanks to some forward territory.  You can use fighters and infantry to trade weakly held territory.

From there on, keep moving infantry and tanks up, until Germany starts pushing back.  Then do a fighting retreat.

If you see a load of enemy units on a territory, think how many casualties you will take attacking that territory before you can claim the territory.  If you think your units will all die before you can take the territory, don’t attack it.  If you think you can take the territory, think about what units the enemy has that can retake the territory.  If the enemy can retake the territory and kill a lot of valuable units, then don’t move all your units in. Either retreat, or send enough units to probably kill all enemy units with a couple extra for safety - if the enemy responds in force, your reserves might be able to wipe him/her out.

In the meantime, UK and US should be building TRANSPORTS and CARRIERS, and a couple DESTROYERS and maybe a couple SUBMARINES to act as cannon fodder.  UK and US need to get ground units through the Atlantic in to help Russia, or Russia is toast.  If UK and US do things like build a lot of battleships or fighters or bombers, but don’t build any ships at all for a few turns, you’re probably going to die because your allies aren’t very skilled at playing the game.

It’s OK if UK/US go to Africa before they reach Europe.  But if they built no ships and no transports in the Atlantic after UK2/US2, that’s a bad, bad sign.  You might see the US building fleet in the Pacific while UK works in the Atlantic; that’s OK.  But you should see transports being built.  US should have at least 3 by US2, UK should have at least 3 by UK3.  Often they should have more, earlier, although skilled Axis players can take preventative measures.

Of course, it is not diplomatic or even in most cultures polite to point out that your allies don’t know what they’re doing, even if they are ignorant slobs.  How you get them to produce transports is up to you.  Don’t forget they need escorts too, and a strong fleet of escorts at that.  Transports are expensive, and useless in combat other than to transport units.  If there’s a fleet with a lot of transports that gets wiped out, first the value of all the escort fleet was lost.  Second, the value of all the transports was lost.  Usually if an Allied fleet gets wiped out, that’s a blow the Allies will not recover from.

Details on particular strategies - well, go ahead and ask in a thread titled “Allied Strategies”; check out some of the articles in the article forum.  But watch out for the articles I write; I often leave out stuff that people would think important.

Like how?

Me:  Wouldja go to the store and pick up some donuts?
Buddy:  Isn’t your car in the shop?
Me:  Yeah, I got a replacement car, keys in the ignition outside
Buddy:  Woah, a Shelby Cobra?!
Me:  Yeah, I just stole it.
Buddy:  There’s a bunch of cops right outside.
Me:  Why didn’t you SAY something?

So you can see, REALLY, it’s OTHER people that leave out the important stuff.  But you’d be surprised how they say it’s me that doesn’t tell them what’s important!  :roll:  But I just smile and take it all in stride, because you know everyone’s got their own individual style, and you don’t have music unless you have Melody AND Harmony.  :lol:  Ask Hef if you don’t believe me.  But anyways, sometimes, the best thing is to just get along.  Which, when playing a multi-player game of Axis and Allies, or even with just a single opponent, is always good to remember.  Especially if you owe the people you’re playing with a lot of money and your chainsaw wasn’t hanging in its usual spot on the wall when you got home.

got it. thanks!

I played a game where Germany got to take West Indies and Brazil… and held it till i built and went after it… interesting game it worked well enough to force me to buy units to get those territs back which caused some delays