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A&A Revised Game Balance



  • Is A&AR a more balanced game than A&A? Is it a fair fight?

    I have played only twice so far, and won both times as allies. However, I don’t think the Axis strategy was very good. They only got two units to Africa from Europe and that’s it. So Africa was in allied hands with little resistance in both games. And Japan didn’t capture much, they just squabbled with the U.S. Navy. All I had to do was hold out until the buildup of forces from economic superiority took its course. So I can’t tell if it is balanced quite yet.

    I don’t like the whole bidding thing. I just want to pull out the game, set it up, and play it as an even game. For instance, if there was a consensus for what bid will even out the game, I would just use that regardless and not bid. But I’m not sure if this game is balanced or not. I don’t want to play it 20 times before I find out for myself - the hard way. Me and my usual playing partner are too competitive.

    Anyways, what do you guys think?



  • Axis need a bid… about 8 to 12 to have a shot. Put a few units in Libya before setup and some extra ipc for japan to have in the bank.


  • 2007 AAR League

    Yep, Allied advantage. It is smaller than the advantage in A&A 2nd Ed, though.

    BTW, I’d like information on how bidding works? What does an Axis bid of , say 10, implies: That the Axis get to place 10 IPC worth of units in any space where he already has units? So a bid of 10 gives Axis the opportunity to place one Fighter or 2 Tanks in Libya, for example??



  • Perry; yup, that’s how bidding work.

    I’d say it’s about evenly balanced, but then I haven’t even finished my first game :P. Perhaps the Allies have a slight advantage, but that’s not really a bad thing, as it recreates reality well, and makes it more exciting to win as the Axis 😉 :D.


  • 2019 Moderator

    I’d say there is a slight allied advantage. Mostly due to the fact that Allied strategy is more obvious.



  • Explain this bid process to me. Maybe its a suggestion I can make in my gaming circle.

    The Axis have only been victorius twice, with the Allies winning all the other times.


  • 2007 AAR League

    @Wrongway:

    Explain this bid process to me. Maybe its a suggestion I can make in my gaming circle.

    The Axis have only been victorius twice, with the Allies winning all the other times.

    OK, I’ll do my best:

    Before the game each Team puts forward a bid for playing the Axis. Lowest bidder gets to play the Axis.

    Say Team 1 bids 16 IPC and Team 2 bids 20 IPC. Team 1 wins the bid and get to play Axis.

    Now Team 1 is allowed to place units and/or ICs to the board for a total value of 16 IPC (if they put less to the board, they get to bank the cash difference).

    ANY space where Axis forces exists from the start is eligible for placement of these bid units.

    For example, team 1 may place:

    1 German inf in Libya
    1 Japanese Tank in Manchuria
    1 German sub in Southern Europe

    or

    1 Fighter in Finland/Norway
    2 Inf in Finland/Norway

    You may place the units in different regions, or all in the same region.

    They may place all units to the German starting forces, to the Japan starting forces, or a mix of them both. However, you may not place German units in Japanese territories, or vice versa.

    Basically, that’s it! After putting the bid units on the board, game starts as normal with R1!



  • In my gaming circles, I think the wins were pretty balanced …

    I’d say the game is balanced, starting chances wise, but I feel that the Allied side is slightly easier to play, that they have some room for mistakes. The Axis on the other hand, if played against a competent adversary, of course, will have optimize every move and play real tight. I guess that’s what desert fish was saying …



  • @Perry:

    @Wrongway:

    Explain this bid process to me. Maybe its a suggestion I can make in my gaming circle.

    The Axis have only been victorius twice, with the Allies winning all the other times.

    OK, I’ll do my best:

    Before the game each Team puts forward a bid for playing the Axis. Lowest bidder gets to play the Axis.

    Say Team 1 bids 16 IPC and Team 2 bids 20 IPC. Team 1 wins the bid and get to play Axis.

    Now Team 1 is allowed to place units and/or ICs to the board for a total value of 16 IPC (if they put less to the board, they get to bank the cash difference).

    ANY space where Axis forces exists from the start is eligible for placement of these bid units.

    For example, team 1 may place:

    1 German inf in Libya
    1 Japanese Tank in Manchuria
    1 German sub in Southern Europe

    or

    1 Fighter in Finland/Norway
    2 Inf in Finland/Norway

    You may place the units in different regions, or all in the same region.

    They may place all units to the German starting forces, to the Japan starting forces, or a mix of them both. However, you may not place German units in Japanese territories, or vice versa.

    Basically, that’s it! After putting the bid units on the board, game starts as normal with R1!

    So these arent actual IPC’s that come out of your nations income?
    Ie. they are auxillary IPCs that all players and or sides start with.

    With like a ceiling of 20 or something?



  • can i place 2 transport at Baltic ??


  • 2019 Moderator

    @Wrongway:

    So these arent actual IPC’s that come out of your nations income?
    Ie. they are auxillary IPCs that all players and or sides start with.

    With like a ceiling of 20 or something?

    They are free IPC’s awarded to the winner of the bid, the axis player/s to be split between Germany and Japan. They can all go to Germany or be split between the two axis.

    And in the above example of a winning bid of 16, yes you could put two additional transports in the Baltic.

    By the way from what I understand in the revised game bids are much smaller than in the 2nd edition.


  • 2007 AAR League

    @dezrtfish:

    @Wrongway:

    So these arent actual IPC’s that come out of your nations income?
    Ie. they are auxillary IPCs that all players and or sides start with.

    With like a ceiling of 20 or something?

    They are free IPC’s awarded to the winner of the bid, the axis player/s to be split between Germany and Japan. They can all go to Germany or be split between the two axis.

    And in the above example of a winning bid of 16, yes you could put two additional transports in the Baltic.

    By the way from what I understand in the revised game bids are much smaller than in the 2nd edition.

    I would be very interested in what people think is a ‘fair’ bid for the Axis in the Revised game! I too has understood that they are smaller (and understandingly so), but since I’m not very experienced in using bids, I’d like to know some other peoples opinion!


  • 2019 Moderator

    Probably should start a new topic for that.


  • 2007 AAR League

    @dezrtfish:

    Probably should start a new topic for that.

    Done.



  • From what I have read and played, the average bid falls about 10.



  • TMTM requested 12 in a game I’m playing against him. I get the feeling he’s pretty experienced with the Revised edition (I’m not, this will be my first full game of AAR). Since he’s pretty well setup to beat me, I think the bid is about right. I had some trouble early with the increased shipping time, etc and probably messed up early (mismanaged the Atlantic fleet) but I think I played pretty well with Russia, and by the end of round 3 I’ll have a pretty good foothold in Europe (projecting control of WEU with 8 Allied units, EEU with 1 spoiler, Spain 9 US inf, 3 arm, and I’m debating an attack on SEU). ON the other hand, he’s whipping Asia with Japan, and the bid went to Germany…that was parly my fault though as well though I didn’t account for the increased Jpn air force and let a blocking force in BYR get killed J1.


  • 2019 Moderator

    Where did the bid go if you don’t mind my asking? I assume with a bid of 12 it was 4 Inf. or…



  • Our group has only played 2 games thus far, however I was on the winning side as Axis(Germany) in Game 1 and as the Allies(GB) in Game 2. We play matches with the winning condition of Total Victory, and the match is complete when each player has had the chance to play each Country. To us, bidding is archaic as everyone has an equal chance. It’s a combination of ‘Luck of the dice’ (to determine which Country you play that game as well as who you are partnered with) and the strategy that you use.

    I was thankful that I rolled a 2 and got to play as Germany in Game 1 as all of us were adjusting to the new features, I took advantage employing the new tactics with the new units to pull out the victory. I rolled a 3 and got GB in Game 2 and had fun with the new South Pacific set up.

    Anyway, our groups overall view is that the new game is balanced and the Fibonacci Attack and the Leonardo Pisano Defense are better suited for revised vs. original.



  • Where did the bid go if you don’t mind my asking? I assume with a bid of 12 it was 4 Inf. or…

    Actually he bid a des in the Baltic, and then bought an AC. Then he used the fleet to slam British shipping, basically killing both fleets on G2. In some ways I didn’t mind at all, I had to deal with that fleet somehow, sometime, in others though, it of course set the Allies back. I could have not exposed the British fleet, I think if I were to do it again that’s what I’d choose, but it wasn’t a terrible outcome.


  • 2019 Moderator

    Do you buy the IC for India on UK1? Did the Gibralter BB survive G1?

    I think if Germany bid that I would have united my fleet in sz8 and built an AC there on UK1 then I would have dared him to come out.



  • Do you buy the IC for India on UK1? Did the Gibralter BB survive G1?

    I think if Germany bid that I would have united my fleet in sz8 and built an AC there on UK1 then I would have dared him to come out.

    I did not build an IC for India, instead I bought an AC and trn for Britain. I was not going to try an Asian Wall strategy. Perhaps I’ll try that next time. I placed them off the coast of France (moved the BB and trn to join them), so he was able to sortie and hit them, but basically it was a mutual destruction battle. His AC survived, along with 2 planes. He landed the planes in WEU and I killed the empty AC immediately with British air on B2. As I said, I’m not sure if it was the best move (pretty well eliminates B1 purchases plus ftrs), but it did eliminate the Baltic fleet early in the game, which is important, so I’m not saying it was a bad trade. His fleet at the time of B1 was 2 subs, 2 des, 1-2 trn, 1 AC, and 2 ftrs. That’s a respectable shield. As it is now, I have free rain with a Brit fleet in the Baltic, though I don’t think it’ll save me (Germany is the obvious death threat to Russia but Jpn is probably the real stick, he’s got 3 ICs now and will be in range of CAU, and probably take out Novo also.)

    The Gibraltar BB did not survive G1, if I remember correctly, he took it out with his bomber.



  • I still disagree with the placement of navy units in the Baltic…If anywhere…you’d need them in the Med(for Africa, Caucasus, Middle East…) but if I saw Germany building a Baltic fleet…I’d just build a few aircraft…maybe a sub(probably not)…it wouldn’t bother me if my British Airforce was dead…as long as there’s still a big hole in the Baltic Sea…which is inevitable anyway…the smartest thing to do with that navy is to keep it put…relieving pressure on Eastern Europe, Germany, Karelia, and Norway


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