Michael Moore, Genius or Idiot?


  • Lately, this man has been very controversial. I saw on the news just the other day, and they were saying how he said he HATES America! Also, with the debut of Fahrenheit 911 he has become even more controversial! Personally, I don’t like him, but what do you guy’s think?


  • in texas they would lynch him. :lol:


  • Mixed emotions on him. I agree with a good chunk of his message. On the other hand, he does spin his “documentaries” which takes away from anything like journalistic integrity. That makes calling it a documentary really unfair. He has some items in Fahrenheit 911 that I don’t think where true.
    I guess I give him an A for putting important info in a format that people can/ will chew and a D for being impartial.
    Course, he never claims to be impartial… Dunno.
    Seems like he has become bolder and thus less impartial with each successive release. His next might just be a rant.
    People that hate him, say he hates America. I think he’s become a zelot. He resonates with the left because the leaders on the left had become slient. In a perfect world, Rush and Moore would be splinters. In our world they are main stream. Hating them is kinda silly. They are just a reflection of America. If America was not in large numbers dissatisfied with the War and Bush in general, the movie would not be doing so well.


  • Personally, i think he does it more for the attention, than to make a point.


  • Watching his interviews (although they were on Comedy Central) he was very open about how slanted his films are, and that they are indeed just trying to push his political message through an entertaining, but heavily slanted look. As far left as the message leans, he is presenting facts, not all the facts, but definitely the convenient ones. And I’m sure he’s out to make a buck too.


  • Does Moore remind anyone else of a grease-covered slug? 😉

    At least Rush has some credibility; he doesn’t outrightly lie. You can’t say the same about Moore.


  • @Wargaming_nut:

    Does Moore remind anyone else of a grease-covered slug? 😉

    At least Rush has some credibility; he doesn’t outrightly lie. You can’t say the same about Moore.

    :lol: Wargaming_nut :lol:

    Actually, Moore has a spitting image twin who is the security guard at my bank.

    On a serious note, I don’t find Michael Moore to be a liar. I DO feel that he is notorious for taking quotes out of context to give out a different meaning.

    I saw F911 today and I must admit that there were certain parts of the film that I disagreed with. And as you already know from some of my posts, I am a left-winger from hell :evil: 😉 . However, there are some scenes of this film that everyone should at least learn from. It doesn’t matter how you stand politically. You have already decided your vote. So have I.

    This film will not impact people’s votes significantly. I saw what I expected and so did every Republican who saw it.


  • gee stuka, i thought all left winger were form hell. :lol: i still dont understand why he is allowed to make this film, what about mccainfinegold?(is that how you spell it?)


  • i still dont understand why he is allowed to make this film

    Unfortunatly, I am yet to see F911, but I fully support his right to make this film. It is the freedom of the opposing view that keeps us so strong. God Bless America and her opposing views… even the ones that may be wrong.

    what about mccainfinegold?(is that how you spell it?)

    It’s McCain Feingold, but close enough. (I had to search to get it right).
    So… WHAT about it? I think I’m missing the connection here. (Not a challenge, just a fact…) 😉 🙂

    -DF


  • and they were saying how he said he HATES America!<<

    You know what I say. Anyone that trul hates America can just leave. And not come back! Thats the beauty of a free country.

    Of course, the reason people like Moore don’t leave is that there is still no other country that fits his twisted sense of world view any better. And at least here that whole free speach thing lets him tout his nonesense without getting arrested or killed for it.

    That being said, I have no problem with people who wish to express dislikes for particular laws or leadership, and strive to us the American system to inact change. That too is the beauty of a free country. Its just my opinion that Moores way of going about it is simply disgraceful…and the man has a severe problem with the concept of fact and truth.


  • @guildofblades:

    and they were saying how he said he HATES America!<<

    You know what I say. Anyone that trul hates America can just leave. And not come back! Thats the beauty of a free country.

    And in Moore’s case if he did so, he would make many right wingers happy! 😄 :lol:


  • I understand he’s got a movie or TV special thats sturring up some kind of controversy or someting…bah

  • Moderator

    It’s called Fareneit 9/11

    http://www.michaelmoore.com/

    GG


  • And how could he have protested that would NOT have been disgraceful? I think making a movie about a President you don’t like is perfectly acceptable for of protest. That being said I went once to the Libery Bell in Philadelphia with a conservative I know, and there were some people there protesting the War in Iraq. Of course he was just so offended, but this points out the hypocricy of the far right which claims to be in favor of free speech….until you actually use it.

    By not lying and tricking people into agreeing with him. If his documentary told the truth, then i wouldnt care. Some of his arguements are good, but some are just false, it is is disgraceful to present lies as truths. If you want to debate whether or not he lied, go ahead, but as your statement did not make any such arguement, you are gonna have to try again.
    As for your friend and the protest, well, i would be offended as well. I veiw people who do not support the war as unenglightened about the subject, and as such should not protest, for if someone knew the facts they would have to support it, just like i think anyone who is pro-choice is ignorant about biology. I think my opinion is correct and backed up by the majority of the facts, that isnt anything new, and anyone who “sees both sides equally” does not have an opinion. I see the other side and where it is coming from, but i see why it is wrong. However, i dont think we should not let them protest. If your friend tried to make them stop, then he was in the wrong, but if he felt “offended”, i dont see the problem.

    Secondly unlike Bush, Moore is from Flint, Michigan and isn’t some East Coast blueblood. You tell me which is more American

    last time i checked, being American had ntohing to do with what state you were born in, but what you believe in and what you do for your country.


  • but is also contrary to the principles this nation was founded on like FOR THE PEOPLE.

    Sorry, Agent; wrong again. That “for the people” quote is from Lincoln’s Gettysburg Address, not the Constitution or Declaration. Nowhere did the Founders say that the country was founded “for the people”; you’re thinking of something more like a communism.


  • ive been to mexico. 😄 is that ok?


  • Sorry I just had to laugh when I read this. So now you, a right wing conservative is accusing Lincoln a Republican of being a communist? You really need to learn some history there bud. Anyway isn’t it interesting how immediately WargamingNut had to throw the Communist label on me? No actually the first three words of the Constitution say WE THE PEOPLE and what I wrote was in reference to the whole of the people, by the people, for the people ethos of the Constitution and Bill of Rights, but again we see that far right reactionaries are against the Bill of Rights much like the Nazis were…coincidence. I wonder what Falk and some of the Germans who post here think of similarities between this kind of thinking and the Nazism movement. There are afterall uncanny parallels.

    When did I call Lincoln a communist? I don’t like him, I think many (if not all) of his policies were wrong, but I never said he was a communist. I mentioned communism because so many communist nations (example: The People’s Republic of China) claim to be “for the people,” when they’re so obviously for anything but “the people.” Hmmm…. “Far right reactionaries are against the Bill of Rights, much like the Nazis…” That almost sounded like a coherent argument… So close… ;). I’m perfectly for the Bill of Rights, Agent, and while I think MM is a contemptible person, I wouldn’t restrict his right to state what he thinks; that doesn’t mean I can’t make clear my dislike for him, and his ideas.

    Maybe next time you should read exactly what I wrote, instead of jumping to conclusions, and assuming the worst. Might help you avoid making wild accusations and ending up sounding like a fool.


  • But you and many other reactionaries have stated opinions here in favor of censorship how do you reconsile that with the bill of rights. Further, the far right often triumphs certain rights like to bear arms, but is often against free speech. How can you be in favor of one and not the other. Perphaps our society would be better off without free speech and guns, but herein lies the problem were do you stop.

    Would you mind showing me the quote where I said I was in favor of censorship? And how do you define free speech? (btw, I’m in favor of the right to keep and bear arms; just FYI). If you mean letting MM mouth off about nothing, sure, I won’t restrict that. If you mean letting anyone who wants to to hang a Confederate flag out of his window, or put a statue of Lee or Davis on his lawn, I certainly have no problem with that. If you mean peaceful demonstration, I have no objections to that at all, whether I think the demonstrators are right or not. If you mean forcing newspapers to print the opinions of every moron who writes in, I would object to that. It all depends on what you mean by “restricting free speech,” and I can’t discuss it with you until I know what you mean.

    Yes your scholastic insight into Communism/Bolshevism is laughable as well. Yes these govt’s are so bad for the people and yet how do you account for the fact that the people in China and Russia are far better off now than in the pre-Communist days. Considering the rapid improvement to the quality of life for the common person in these places perphaps you should rethink this. However, if you feel sorry for the average aristocrat, bandito, and warlord then I agree these types are far worse off than in the pre communist era. Are you saying you are against law and order?

    So you truly think China and Cuba are better off with a communist government. And yet you objected when you thought I had called you commie? Which is it? Are you in favor of communism (in which case you ARE a communist, though I hadn’t accused you of that) or you’re lying when you say you think China is better off. Or, possibly, we have different ideas of what constitutes “better off.” Personally, I’d say a country where people are not allowed to vote, not allowed to demonstrate, and where free speech and dissenters are completely eradicated (just to name a few) is not better. But I suppose you can go ahead and see China as a golden paradise; just don’t say that in front of any refugees from that hell hole.

    Oh no I smell an unreconstructed southerner/anti-federalist! Yes there is much to hate about Lincoln freeing the slaves, preserving the Union, and building the transcontinental railroad. I think this alone shows how far right the extreme right is when they can’t even own up to the legacy of their founding patriarch Abraham Lincoln. Indeed the far right is closer to Nazism than conservativism.

    Lincoln only freed the slaves in the South, where he had no control (the Emancipation Proclamation, that document so revered by people like you, specifically says slaves in the North and parts of the South that had been conquered by the North, were to be exempt from this freeing), he forced another country into bondage (question; if the American Colonies had the right to secede from England, why didn’t the South?), and condoned the actions of Sherman and Sheridan, who started the wonderful tradition of total war by sacking Georgia and the Shenandoa Valley, respectfully. Oh, and by the way; I was born in New Hampshire, and have lived here all my life. That’s about as far north as you can get, Agent.

    I don’t think there’s really any point in my continuing this argument with you, Agent; your entire case seems to be calling people who disagree with you (and, just for the heck of it, the entire right wing) Nazis. Maybe I’ll continue this with Falk who, even though I disagree with him frequently, tends to be reasonable.


  • This makes me think of something as I listened to one of Kerry’s speeches today. He claims that becuase the Bush administration hasn’t come out against the “Swiftboat Veterans” ad, that that means the group is doing the Republicans dirty work for them.

    But wait….has Kerry come out and spoke out against Fahrenheit 9/11? Hmmm, I doubt it…


  • he is neither a genius nor an idiot, he is a fat asshole that is extremely hypocritical, and lacks any common sense, instead possesessed only of extreme left-wing ideology. whether or not you agree with his message, what he is doing, his films, etc. he is neither genius nor idiot.

    agent: for myself at least, im not against free speech (well, not as such)
    but i abhor freedom of protest.


  • @Deviant:Scripter:

    ….has Kerry come out and spoke out against Fahrenheit 9/11? Hmmm, I doubt it…

    I recall John "F."ing Kerry saying he was against

    1. F9/11,
    2. calling G. "'W."hat-did-he-say?(pronounced “Wad-E-say?”)Bush a liar, Nazi, racist, dictator(“regime” and “regime change”), KKK member, warmonger…
    3. every ad by moveon.org and other similar 527s,
    4. every attack ad by every Democrat contending for the Democrat nomination for Presidential Candidate for the 2004 Election(including his own), and

    saying he(Kerry) would stop all attack ads,

    every time immediately after he said, " I was in Vietnam."

    NOT!!


  • It takes a certain genius to find your niche target, develop a product, market it, and then make millions off of it.

    And yet, I find it quite idiotic to throw political support for someone who will take all of those hard-won earnings away in higher taxes to the millionares.

    The ancient Supreme court once pointed out in a ruling that “the power to tax is the power to destroy.” Taxing weighs the initiative of the working against the hungers of the political beauracracy. While a certain amount of government is needed, cases abound about how waste and corruption destroy the wealth of our nation. Taxing should be structured to encourage the best workers, and work motivators from around the world to live amongst us and contribute here, in the land of the free.

    Each of the major party candidates have major weaknesses, yet their stated policies differ mainly in tax policy. Their running mates both exhibit greater personal ambition than ability for the nation as well. Highly reminiscent of another recent administration.


  • He stands to make about 100 million on this movie. Genius.


  • no, he is not a genius, or an idiot.


  • he is a complete idiot.

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