• Which calibre is better for the army? I say the 30-6 is because if you have twenty rounds in a mag and it is only semi auto you will A) Not waste ammo as easily as a M-16 and B) Have better knock down power.

  • @Desertfox:

    Which calibre is better for the army? I say the 30-6 is because if you have twenty rounds in a mag and it is only semi auto you will A) Not waste ammo as easily as a M-16 and B) Have better knock down power.

    there are advantages and disadvantages for both. The advantage for 7.62 is like you said, knock down power but also since most countries use this type of ammo, you can salvage extra ammo from abandoned weaponry. On the other hand, military ballistics has proven that the 5.56 is a better round for accurancy and it has enough knockdown power to get the job done. Also you have to look at the given weapon these rounds are being used in. For example, the M16 A2 could accurately hit a target from over a thousand meters. While the AK 47 has good accuracy from only about 300 meters.

    I think I would rather have the range then the knock down power.

  • I have read that according to the army the average engagement happens within 300 meters. Thus, an AK47 would work fine. Also, I am thinking more along the lines of a 7.62x51 not a 7.62x39 like the AK47.

  • Makes sense. I would agree there that most combat is usually in closer range (i.e. urban areas).

    On a side note, the newer M16s (A2 - A4) have settings for semiauto and 3 round burst. It is no longer fully automatic.

    What new rifle would you suggest with 7.62x51? I wouldn’t see any reason why it wouldn’t benefit US forces outside of the price tag to replace 400,000 rifles. :wink:

  • According to the creator of the AK, Mikhail Kalashikov, the 7.62 is the best calibre, better than the 5.45 calibre used in the AK74. Also, I like big calibres. I have read some convincing things about 7.62v5.56 that favor the former.

  • I’ve read convincing things that the 5.56 is better. And that also were the reasons why NATO changed to 5.56

  • '19 Moderator

    The 5.56 is definitely the better round for a general-purpose rifle. The 7.62x51 (.308) is a good distance round. The 7.62x39 is inferior to both because it is less accurate than the 5.56 and has less range than the .308.

    I’ve shot them all and that’s just the way it is. :wink:

  • @dezrtfish:

    I’ve shot them all and that’s just the way it is. :wink:

    Me too. The weapons that I have fired while in service are:

    M16 A2
    M240 G
    M240 E
    88 mm mortar
    9 mm Baretta ( :roll: )
    50 cal. machine gun
    AT 4 rocket launcher
    25 mm chain gun

    and the mother load: the TOW anti-tank missle 8) <<< which was my primary MOS.

  • '19 Moderator

    TOW, I bet that was a blast.

    In service I fired:

    M16 A1 (5.6 mm)
    M16 A2 (5.6 mm)
    M79 (40 mm)
    M203 (40 mm/5.6 mm)
    M60 (7.62/51 Nato)
    M2 (.50 MG)
    M1911 A1 (.45 ACP)
    M9 (9 mm)
    M3 A1 (.45 ACP)

    and the LAW

    Other Military Weapons I have fired:
    MG 34 (8mm)
    MG 42 (8mm)
    MP 40 (9mm)
    PPSh 41 (7.62/25 mm)
    AK 47 (7.62/39 mm)
    M1928A1 “Tommy Gun”

    And a whole bunch of other stuff that is probably boring.

  • Why was the 5.56 better? Was it more comfortable and lighter, better accuracy?

  • '19 Moderator

    I always say that a weapon is only as accurate as the shooter, however the M-16 and even more so the M-4 is very easy to shoot. It feels natural and it makes it very easy to acquire a target. I have only once in 14 years shot less than 38 out or 40 in qualification, and that was because I managed to acquire the target of the guy next to me.

    I have an AK, it is cheap and fun to shoot. But I wouldn’t bother to shoot at anything over 100 yards, and it is awkward to try to shoot accurately.

  • This is not about guns, it is about the rounds!

  • '19 Moderator

    Well then, the 7.62 x 39 is under powered for its size. If you want a .30 then go with the 7.62 x 51 at a minimum.

    By the way, in your original post you say “30-6” if you mean 30-06 then that is not 7.62 x 51. 7.62 x 51 NATO is .308, 30-06 is much bigger.

  • Yeah, I know. A 30-6 is about 7.62 x 63mm. The 8mm mauser seems the best in my opinion.

  • '19 Moderator

    8mm is a good round. I have a 1941 issue K98 and an M1 Garand. I was considering using one of them for elk the year before I got my 7mm Mag.

    I shot about twenty rounds through both of them to see how they did with hand load hunting rounds. At 100 yards I could cover my 8mm groups with a quarter. The 30-06 was about the size of a silver dollar. Of course the Garand is a gas fed semi-auto so there is some loss there. The other thing is that 8mm left a pretty ugly bruise on my shoulder, it kicks like a mule. That is a bad quality for a combat round.

  • The 5,56 is better for many reasons, first of which is ammo capacity. A soldier can carry many more rounds of 5.56 ammo than he can 7.62.

    Secondly, the 5.56 is more likely to kill some one due to the fact that it tumbles when it enters the body, making the wound much more gruesome.

  • 5.56x45mm NATO 7x43mm EM-2 7.6x39mm M43 7.62x51mm NATO
    bullet weight 4.01 g (62 gr) 9.08 g (140 gr) 7.9 g (122 gr) 9.72 g (150 gr)
    bullet velocity, at muzzle 921 m/s 745 m/s 710 m/s 860 m/s
    bullet velocity, at 300 yards (273 meters) 585 m/s 570 m/s 470 m/s 674 m/s
    bullet velocity, at 550 yards (500 meters) 385 m/s 450 m/s 341 m/s 516 m/s
    bullet energy, at muzzle 1700 J 2519 J 1991 J 3594 J
    bullet energy, at 300 yards (273 meters) 686 J 1475 J 872 J 2207 J
    bullet energy, at 550 yards (500 meters) 297 J 919 J 460 J 1294 J

    5.56 weighs 12g and 7.62x51 weighs 24. The person with the 5.56 fires with 3 round burst, the person with the 7.62 fires semi-auto. 3 shots=1 kill or 1 shot = 1 kill? Which is better? 36g or 24g? A 30 round 5.56 will get you ten pulls of the trigger if set on 3 round burst (the 3 round burst compensates for the smallness of the round. A 20 round 7.62 will give you 20 pulls.

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