Karelian Complex… dumb question


  • Hi guys.
    I’ve a dumb question concerning the russian IC in Karelia. If it gets conquered by the germans for example, germany can only build the three units, for there Karelia provides only three IPcs.
    My question is: Suppose, Russia frees Karelia, is it able to build as many units as Russia want to build their or is the number now limited to three because the IC is now a captured IC and no longer an original one?

    Many thanks for your answers and thinking time 🙂

    Runenzorn.


  • unlimited again 🙂


  • Any history on the name Runenzorn? I like the sound of it.


  • I’m sorry, but there is no real historical association to this nick…
    It is my own creation, I am German and I chose the nick because I like to cause puzzle at my sorrounding people by using somekind of “angry phrases combined with irony”; however, I can’t do so in English, for I don’t know the words and meanings that good.
    Consequently, I combined “Runen” - in German it can be associated with “words” or “handwriting”, the words I use - with “zorn” - it means “fury”, the fury I cause by using special phrases in German, of course. 🙂

    That’s it, nothing else :).

    Your name bangalore…
    Uhm, I only know it from the film “saving private ryan”. I think they are the grenades used for destroying the german “fences” ??? A scary film and extraordinary bloody… “schüttel”<— “i’m freezing by remembering it”

    Your history for your name?

    Have fun 🙂


  • Runenzorn, I have to ask you about the German perspective of WWII. What view of the war is taken over there? How do they teach it in schools? Here they teach it something like this:

    “Evil Hitler rallied the Evil Nazis to take over Europe, and the United States came and rescued the world. Oh, and we dropped the atom bomb. Oh, and Stalin helped us out, but commies are bad.”

    I was also wondering if you feel a sense of national pride when you play and prefer to be Germany. Do you feel bad when you play as the Allies and you crush the Fatherland?


  • Hehe, nice question.
    In Germany, in schools we focus on the cruels of the nazi regimes especially on the holocaust. We learn about the perversity that mankind can evolve and that the death is a master from germany.
    On the contrary, recent events in germany show that antisemitism isn’t anymore that unpopular in the public.
    Of course, the overwhelming majority of Germans strongly supports Israel and their people by money and “Bundeswehr” weapons, such as the U.S. do… :-).
    In addition, we learn that Hitler admired the U.K. especially their expansion by claiming colonies all over the world. Concerning to Hitler’s theory we learn about this fact and we conclude that he wants in someway to imitate the way of the former worldpower U.K. to establish a strong force against bolchevism. All of you know, how it ended… 🙂

    We also learn that Communists are bad, not only from the fact that more people died by the communist regim in the USSR than in the holocaust.

    A rather interesting fact is that we still call the D-Day an “invasion” not an release from the nazi regime such as the French people do or something in this way. Of course, it freed us from a scary way of life, but this action penetrated our former state line and I am happy that there is no more a nazi government.

    Enough of history. For my part, I personally avoid to play the allies, I can’t
    hurt my national pride. Consequently, I prefer playing the axis, yet this is my own way of thinking an my German mates can play the allies without andy doubts or regrets… 🙂

    So far…
    Another dumb question 🙂
    Do you like to play the U.S.? Of course…? 🙂

    Runenzorn


  • @Runenzorn:

    Hehe, nice question.
    In Germany, in schools we focus on the cruels of the nazi regimes especially on the holocaust. We learn about the perversity that mankind can evolve and that the death is a master from germany.
    On the contrary, recent events in germany show that antisemitism isn’t anymore that unpopular in the public.
    Of course, the overwhelming majority of Germans strongly supports Israel and their people by money and “Bundeswehr” weapons, such as the U.S. do… :-).
    In addition, we learn that Hitler admired the U.K. especially their expansion by claiming colonies all over the world. Concerning to Hitler’s theory we learn about this fact and we conclude that he wants in someway to imitate the way of the former worldpower U.K. to establish a strong force against bolchevism. All of you know, how it ended… 🙂

    We also learn that Communists are bad, not only from the fact that more people died by the communist regim in the USSR than in the holocaust.

    A rather interesting fact is that we still call the D-Day an “invasion” not an release from the nazi regime such as the French people do or something in this way. Of course, it freed us from a scary way of life, but this action penetrated our former state line and I am happy that there is no more a nazi government.

    Enough of history. For my part, I personally avoid to play the allies, I can’t
    hurt my national pride. Consequently, I prefer playing the axis, yet this is my own way of thinking an my German mates can play the allies without andy doubts or regrets… 🙂

    So far…
    Another dumb question 🙂
    Do you like to play the U.S.? Of course…? 🙂

    Runenzorn

    If i may - i’m a Canadian, however i do not like playing the allies at all. The Axis have more of a challenge, and they may develop in more interesting ways than the allies. In fact, i kind of chuckle perversely when i take out that Canadian transport (this is in spite of the amount of pride i have in what that transport and that armor represent - including the Fort Garry Horse armour of Winnipeg).


  • Yeah, I just wanted a screen name associated with WW2, and chose bangalore. They are a sort of pipe bomb with fittings on the ends so that they can be screwed together and stretched across a beach and over to the barbed wire in question. Pretty cool gadget!


  • “Evil Hitler rallied the Evil Nazis to take over Europe, and the United States came and rescued the world. Oh, and we dropped the atom bomb. Oh, and Stalin helped us out, but commies are bad.”

    Ha, good thing I don’t go to your school. 😉
    Over here in LA, we [my peers] all know that the Russians did most of the fighting in Europe, which means more time spent on the Pacific while the Russians are “doing their thing.” This is good because, if you ask me, the Pacific Theater isn’t covered enough! :)). However, the teachers do talk down the commies :-?!

    “If i may - i’m a Canadian, however i do not like playing the allies at all. The Axis have more of a challenge, and they may develop in more interesting ways than the allies. In fact, i kind of chuckle perversely when i take out that Canadian transport”

    I’m not sure what you mean “may develop in more interesting ways than the Allies. :-?” If you ask me, the Allies have the most diverse strategies! The reason is that, since the Axis are at a disadvantage (obviously), often times they have to stick to the same “plan” in order to have a decent shot of winning. But with the Allies (esp. USA and UK), you’re free to experiment with new tactics and strats without having that much of a monkey on your back. Of course I agree with CC, I’m always up for a good challenge! 🙂


  • I agree w/ TG that the Pacific theater often is not showcased enough in standard A & A.

    As far as “nationality” is concerned, it has only a very very minor role in my A & A games. By the same token, when I play Silent Hunter II, do I enjoy seeing “American” ships sink? HELL YEAH! But its not real and that makes all the difference. I can have a lot of fun in A & A playing Germany, Japan, or USSR–all countries that, in the early 1940s, were detestable places. If playing Japan makes me feel like a tough guy–sure, thats cool–but fortunately its just a game. If it were real–I’d have a lot more to think about. Even as an American I don’t know if I could, say, sink a Japanese sub and cause the horrible deaths of dozens of men. I just don’t know if I could do it. But since in the game its just plastic pieces–let’s sink 'em!

    Ozone27


  • Japan is a very sad case of history. They had huge divisions among their navy and army over their expansion and their military and navy sizes. It’s probably one of the greatest ironies that the commander in chief of the Imperial Japanese Navy, Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto, was against the war with America and against the attack on Pearl Harbor which he planned. He was assassinated by the Americans, under orders from Roosevelt himself. That is why some people say Japan has never formally apologized ot the United States, because they assassinated Yamamoto. YEt he wantedpeace between America and Japan. Very sad, in my opinion.


  • @EmuGod:

    Japan is a very sad case of history. They had huge divisions among their navy and army over their expansion and their military and navy sizes. It’s probably one of the greatest ironies that the commander in chief of the Imperial Japanese Navy, Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto, was against the war with America and against the attack on Pearl Harbor which he planned. He was assassinated by the Americans, under orders from Roosevelt himself. That is why some people say Japan has never formally apologized ot the United States, because they assassinated Yamamoto. YEt he wantedpeace between America and Japan. Very sad, in my opinion.

    interesting. I understand he was American trained - at Harvard.


  • Partly, yes he was. He loved Abraham Lincoln, maybe because they had a lot in common. They were both from poor families. Even their houses were similar. He told his superiors that he could keep the Americans running for 6 months to a year but after that their superior economic power would enable them to defeat Japan. When the attack was ordered, he said that he sees Tokyo burning three times over, Japan reduced to ashes and himself dying in battle. He’s a very interesting person. He developed the most powerful fighter in the world at the time, the Mistubishi Zero Fighter and he was one of the few military men who saw the carrier as more powerful than the battleship.


  • As far as “nationality” is concerned, it has only a very very minor role in my A & A games. By the same token, when I play Silent Hunter II, do I enjoy seeing “American” ships sink? HELL YEAH! But its not real and that makes all the difference. I can have a lot of fun in A & A playing Germany, Japan, or USSR–all countries that, in the early 1940s, were detestable places. If playing Japan makes me feel like a tough guy–sure, thats cool–but fortunately its just a game. If it were real–I’d have a lot more to think about. Even as an American I don’t know if I could, say, sink a Japanese sub and cause the horrible deaths of dozens of men. I just don’t know if I could do it. But since in the game its just plastic pieces–let’s sink 'em!

    I like this. It says a lot. When in real life, I would regret having to fight against a fellow man, but if it’s plastic pieces - Get ready for War! 😉

    I agree w/ TG that the Pacific theater often is not showcased enough in standard A & A.

    Not just in A&A, but in life in general. Compare the amount of coverage the Pacific gets compared to the Europe in terms of movies, media coverage, games, text, and the like. Interesting considering the war in the Pacific was much more intense.

    He was assassinated by the Americans, under orders from Roosevelt himself.

    I’m not exactly sure about this, as the “assassination” wasn’t as planned out.

    That is why some people say Japan has never formally apologized ot the United States, because they assassinated Yamamoto.

    Again, I’m not exactly sure about this. I don’t think Japan was ever able to find out the Americans knew who was aboard that plane.


  • Actually, the Americans knew EXACTLY who was on the plane. Pearl Harbor had intercepted and decoded a Jaapnese mssage that outlined Admiral Yamamoto’s exact itinerary for his trip. The attack was meant to have him assassinated. It served no other purpose because there was no need to send that many P58s to dogifght against numerically inferior Japanese fighters. He was the main target. Another Japanese officer, in the plane behnd, made a full description of the attack and how the American fighters fiercely concetrated on Yamamoto’s plane.


  • @EmuGod:

    Actually, the Americans knew EXACTLY who was on the plane. Pearl Harbor had intercepted and decoded a Jaapnese mssage that outlined Admiral Yamamoto’s exact itinerary for his trip. The attack was meant to have him assassinated. It served no other purpose because there was no need to send that many P58s to dogifght against numerically inferior Japanese fighters. He was the main target. Another Japanese officer, in the plane behnd, made a full description of the attack and how the American fighters fiercely concetrated on Yamamoto’s plane.

    I can confirm having read the same thing - they intercepted a message, knew where he would be, and went after him. Of course at the time the Americans didn’t know that he was almost considered “pro-American” - he was the Main Bad Guy. Just another irony of the war I guess.


  • He was also the only enemy commander to be assassinated in the entire war. The commander at Pearl Harbor who intercepted the message, Admiral Nimitz, didn’t feel it was quite right to go after an enemy commander and kill him, so he asked Admiral Halsey for a second opinion. Halsey said that Yamamoto should be ambushed, but Nimitz wasn’t convinced so he asked Admiral King for another opinion and got the same result as when he asked Halsey. So he finally passed it on to the Secretary of the Navy Frank Knox, who sent it to President Roosevelt, who ordered the ambush.


  • Now, were there any other attempts on high level commanders during the war? I guess Yam. just pulled the short straw! Poor guy, from what I know about Pearl Harbor & such he was just doing what he was told, correct? Kind of like a Gen. Lee, very brilliant, just on the losing side. 😞


  • Now, were there any other attempts on high level commanders during the war? I guess Yam. just pulled the short straw! Poor guy, from what I know about Pearl Harbor & such he was just doing what he was told, correct? Kind of like a Gen. Lee, very brilliant, just on the losing side.

    Correct… Yamamato was merely fullfilling his obligation to his country and to his Emperor, which is sort of like Gen. Lee. Lincoln originally wanted Lee as his General of Grand Army on the Potomac, but Lee turned him down, knowing his destiny was with his homeland. Only thing was that Lee survived the war.

    Actually, the Americans knew EXACTLY who was on the plane.

    This is true, though the interception of radio communications happened more by chance. It wasn’t since Day 1, America was out to get Yamamato. It was more like the Americans had an opportunity to nab Yamamato and went for it.

     Now, were there any other attempts on high level commanders during the war?
    

    Quite many in fact. If memory serves my right, almost every high ranking officer had a double: Eisenhower, Hitler, and many others. This was to help prevent any attacks on them, such as at public events. In fact, they even made a movie on Monty’s double!


  • well, don’t forget about Heydrich (sorry if i got the name wrong) - assassinated by those 3 Czech freedom fighters. His resulted in the destruction of the town of Lidice: murder of several hundred Jews in concentration camps (oooo . . . good excuse!!) followed by another 3000 when Heydrich finally died, arbitrary shooting of Czech families accused of aiding in the assassination, 200 males (all of them) in Lidice lined up and shot, and the women and cildren sent to concentration camps - the village was bulldozed and crops planted on the site. The assassins were betrayed by a man haunted by the reprisals.


  • He’s a very interesting person. He developed the most powerful fighter in the world at the time, the Mistubishi Zero Fighter

    Something interesting on that. I was at an air museam once and the guide told us that a man (unfortunatly i cant rember his name) from america came up with a basic plan for a fast fighter plane. He brought it to the pentagon and they regected it. The man then went to Japan and gave the plan to Yamoto. That plane became the Zero


  • Interesting, I know that Yamamoto developed the Zero and other state of the art planes such as the Nakajima, but I’ve never heard that sotyr beofre.

    About him being n the losing side, well that’s mainly the Japanese army and government’s fault. Yamamoto wasn’t even allowed to select the officers for his missions. He had strongly objected to the admiral who had been put in charge of the Pearl Harbor raid, Admiral Nagumo. He knew from the beginning that Nagumo would screw up, and he even did. He left the carriers at Pearl Harbor and did not finish the job. Nagumo also screwed up at Midway and at Guadalcanal. After Midway, Yamamoto even told the government that the Americans had broken the Japanese code but the government refused to believe it. Had he been allowed to run the navy the way he wanted, he could have very easily been on the “winning” side. The Allies were very lucky in the Pacific. They were lucky that the Japanese army and navy had many quarrels and that the commander in chief of the navy, Admiral Yamamoto, was not liked for his view that war with America and Britain was impossible.


  • RUNENZORN,

    If you ever come back or use Notify at the bottom of post,

    I once heard from a German that you have a quaint custom. When someone sneezes twice you respond with a normal comment(same both times).Then on the third sneeze the reponse is “May you burst!” (“Zum voltzheim!” or something like that). I was a little kid, then so, he most likely was having some fun with the gullible American child.
    If I’m wrong, how do you say “May you burst!”? 😄
    –-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Thanks, the Stupid American :lol:


  • @Xi:

    I once heard from a German that you have a quaint custom. When someone sneezes twice you respond with a normal comment(same both times).Then on the third sneeze the reponse is “May you burst!” (“Zum voltzheim!” or something like that). I was a little kid, then so, he most likely was having some fun with the gullible American child.
    If I’m wrong, how do you say “May you burst!”?

    Hmm……
    I think someone tried to bs you :).
    After the first sneeze we usually say something like “(To your) health”.
    “May you burst” and “Zum whatsoever” is unknown to me, and it doesn#t sound like one is the translation of the other.
    “Zum” is an abbreviated form of the 3rd case of “to the”.
    “Voltzheim” does not make sense at all 🙂

    So, i can’t help, but maybe Runenyorn or FinsterniS know about that one.


  • That was me, Falk

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