Native Americans


  • 2019 Moderator

    I hope this dosen’t come off sounding predudice, but The situation with “Native Americans” In our country and more spesificaly in my state, annoys me like you wouldn’t belive.

    Do they have reservations in Canada? I know they don’t in Mexico.

    What a pile of crap! I was born here too, dosn’t that make me a native?

    I think that this has gone on long enough the US government should just declare reservations obsolete and treat the tribes like private companies, which is basicaly what they are, and quit giving them handouts and making special rules for them.



  • I have question Dezrt, what would you change that name to? I don’t think changing it back to Indian would help very much, due to the large Indian population that attends my school (well not large, maybe just enough for confusion). Native does fit somewhat with them since they were the first ones here, though they would be more like the first native immigrants (across from Asia). But don’t worry Dezrt, I only see you as an American.

    Anyways, I can somewhat agree with what you said. A reason why the alcohol use is so high in Native American cultural due to the fact that they have nothing else to do but sit around and get drunk since the government subsidizes them. However, stripping Natives of their rights is not necessarily the way to go. Many of them lack the necessary schools, technology, and funding to compete in the “real world.” Then again, many Indians would rather stay true to their culture then “Westernize.” The problem is that Americans swindled and stole most of their land from them, as well as killing and enslaving much of their population. It’s really depressing if you study Native American culture. And the US policy toward Indians wasn’t exactly the best (forced assimilation until FDR). But the question is what do we do now? The land we give them is pretty crappy and with no room for roaming (ie Plains Indians). Well I guess I’m talking in a circle here. Maybe an alternative answer?



  • Sadly, the Canadian path is not yet the right one. Although many things are done to elevate first nations in society, and propagate traditional right etc., there are far too many natives who are: in prison, in TERRIBLE health, impoverished, suicidal, etc.
    There is enough blame to go around: The British and French who originally settled this country, Canada both past and present, Native Chiefs - many of whom are trying to help their people, many of whom oppress their own people, and have their own problems, etc.
    We are trying to tinker with the Indian Act, but time will tell if this improves their lives any, or if it merely keeps money from being pissed away.



  • The US is at fault for the genocide of an entire race. Ever been to a reservation? They are on the worst deserts of the United States. The least we could do is give these people some waterfront property….

    Seriously though, we ruined a race. They deserve their own, sovereign, land.



  • I agree with Yanny, even the few arces of that land we give them (compared with what they intended for) is a miserable hell hole of a place. I would never want to live there (which is why so many Native Americans move to the big city). I guess giving them “Indian Casinos” are our miserable way of “trying” to make amends. 😢


  • 2019 Moderator

    Well if you have ever flown in to Phoenix you would have noticed that it looks like their are huge farms in surrounded by the city, in the south east and north. those are reservations. I have been on many reservations. The tribes, with government money build housing tracts and give them to thier people. Th epoeple treat these houses like what they are, handouts. Within a couple years the houses are not fit to live in.

    I am actualy well aware of the ways of the Indians, and I personaly wish I could live the lifestile that some of the tribes had prior to the Europeans arival. However that is not possible. People who think that you can just set aside an area of land and let people live thier in a primative lifestyle while technology advances around them are not seeing reality.

    When I was younger I thought the same as some of you. The indians were screwed so we should help them. Then I got to meet and interact with some of them. I’ve been on dozzens of reservations.

    Here is an example. The members of the Fort McDowell Reservation (Apache) each recieve $35,000 a year because they are a member of the nation. The young adults 18 to 25 don’t have a chance. They can stay home for the rest of thier lives in a house that they were given and drink and do drugs until they die useualy in their 30’s or 40’s.

    Belive me this whole revervation thing is crap. If you want to help them, send them to school, educate them and let them earn a purpose in life.


  • 2019 Moderator

    By the way, for any one that has seen me or my picture, I don’t look it but, I am 1/8 Cherokee 🙂



  • In Canada, The “Indians” are called First Nations, instead of Native American, which could refer almost everyone in the Western Hemisphere.

    The city I live has the highest percentage of First Nations people, more than any other major city, in Canada.

    First Nations people are not the only “poor” people in our city/Country.
    They have every opportunity to get a education, for free. Which is more than most of us have.

    I dont feel sorry for these people at all.

    Sit around and get high/drunk and its all the “white man’s” fault……give me a break! This is an old, tried excuse.

    Join th 21st century!



  • “…am actualy well aware of the ways of the Indians, and I personaly wish I could live the lifestile that some of the tribes had prior to the Europeans arival. However that is not possible. People who think that you can just set aside an area of land and let people live thier in a primative lifestyle while technology advances around them are not seeing reality”

    What about the Amish?

    “Here is an example. The members of the Fort McDowell Reservation (Apache) each recieve $35,000 a year because they are a member of the nation. The young adults 18 to 25 don’t have a chance. They can stay home for the rest of thier lives in a house that they were given and drink and do drugs until they die useualy in their 30’s or 40’s.”

    Like I said, alcohol (and to a lesser extent drug use) is a huge problem. If you sit around and receive free handouts, than you will probably die at an early age due to alcohol use. However, I’ve been to some Indian reservations, and a lot of them are barren deserts (so much, that even the Natives don’t live on much of it)

    “Join th 21st century!”

    The problem is that many Native Americans want to revert to their traditional ways before the Europeans came. How do you solve this?

    “I dont feel sorry for these people at all.”

    Well I do at least. The Trail of Tears for instance. We promised the Indian Nations Okalahoma, forcing many of them off their tribal lands. We had to go back on our word. During the various Indian-US wars, when the Indians won, it was considered a “massacre.” When we won, it was a “battle.” A similar case were if Penguins invaded Canada and forced all Canadians to live in Yukon territory. Of course, that area would get smaller and smaller as time passed.


    If I were a younger man, I would write a history of human stupidity; and I would lie down on my back with my history for a pillow; and I would make a statue of myself, lying on my back, grinning horribly, thumbing my nose at You Know Who. - Bokonon



  • well Mr. Ghoul, i have to agree with you. I don’t really want to, and it’s non-pc do to so, and as a future doctor, it’s not a very good perspective. So i agree with you, but try to feed the kernal of hope that we can ultimately find a way for these people to live prosperous, productive lives - prison and hospital free ones, if possible.
    At the same time, both “Indian Affairs” and Native bands are naive to think that the set up here and now can possibly improve the lives of the first nations people. Something has to happen. Some seminal event must take place in the lives of these people to change - if not to fit into society, then at least to develop a society worth living in.



  • The reservations here in Alberta seem to be very well run and the people on them don’t seem to be wasting themselves (blackfoot mostly, here). They have their own schools and they are taking care of themselves pretty well. I can’t say the same for Saskatchewan (especially the Prince Albert area). I’m not sure if this is a widespread problem or a provincial one.



  • How can these people become part of society if they want special status?

    Quote from TG
    “The problem is that many Native Americans want to revert to their traditional ways before the Europeans came. How do you solve this?”

    Are you serious? They want to live on the plains, in a tent, hunt Buffalo?
    Thats not being very realistic.

    Do they want to throw away everything modern tech has to offer?

    I dont understand what is holding the First Nations people back?
    Like I say, the opportunity is there for a education and with that a chance for a decent life, just like the rest of Canada/Canadians.

    Do they want more free handouts and special consideration? If thats the case, then they certainly are not getting any sympathy from me.

    Get off your ass and do what the rest of society has to do. Earn a Living, help yourselves.


  • 2019 Moderator

    If you look into the customs of some of the Native Americans you can see why they can’t realisticly revert to the old ways.

    Did you know that it was common custom in the Cherokee Nation for a man to kidnap women from neighboring tribes (and later white settlements) to make them their wives?

    Did you know that in the Texas constitution it is expressly for bidden for the Cherokee nation to own property within the bounds of Texas because of the terrible acts commited by them?

    Or that the Apache considered a man with caloused hands to be a failure because he had to work and could not steal enough to support his family?

    These may be extreem examples but just the same it sucks for them but the old ways are just not practical. We can’t have nomadic tribes wandering through Kansas! It just won’t work.

    Some of the native american people were not exactly nice people.



  • “Are you serious? They want to live on the plains, in a tent, hunt Buffalo?
    Thats not being very realistic.”

    Actually some Native Americans do (though this is more centered around such elders). If it was otherwise, why would they need reservations in the first place? They would just be assimilated into American city life as the Dawes Act intended. Also Natives do adopt “Western Technology.” Remember the musket and houses anyone?

    “Do they want more free handouts and special consideration?”

    I don’t like giving handouts either or any “special rights.” But what do you suggest we do if we suddenly cut off all Indian aid? As a side note, I think giving them money is wrong. If you give money to a homeless man, what might he do with it? Drown his sorrows in alcohol or drug use? If the government gives handots, it should at least be in the form of food and clothing supplies.

    “Did you know that it was common custom in the Cherokee Nation for a man to kidnap women from neighboring tribes (and later white settlements) to make them their wives…?”

    I never said such Native Americans were nice, nice or had perfect sort of people. However, times change. I remember when the US first started, only white males (property holding of course) could vote. Obviously, times have changed. So if Natives were to practice their customs as they do today, I think they would’ve matured enough to learn the “mistakes” from the past.

    “We can’t have nomadic tribes wandering through Kansas”

    You’re probably right on that. However, the Federal Government still owns a quarter of all US land. Why don’t you give them fertile acrage (the idea of nomadic tribes was based more on the introduction of the horse, many NA’s were farmers) and let them do what you want with it instead if spending government aid on them.



  • Your right TG times do change, the First Nations people need to be a part of Society…today.

    Why do they need there own land? Why do they need their own government?

    I’m Irish, can we have our own land and government too, inside of what Canada has already established?

    And dont give me this " The Europeans stole our land" crap, was it your land?..…no!
    The Natives fought for what they thought was theirs and lost.

    Lets cry about it for years.Get over it and live in todays world!

    Does Germany cry about WW2? Does Japan?



  • Actually, the NA’s (Native Americans) did have it’s own self-respecting government during the early days of the Union, which was recognized even by the Supreme Courts. However, that was before the dark times… before the Empire AKA Andrew Jackson :roll:

    “I’m Irish, can we have our own land and government too, inside of what Canada has already established?”

    Let’s reverse the situation. Say you already had a government inside of Canada, who’s lands once belong to you. And after all of the killing, ensalving, and wars, your “rights” are finally respected, but you’ll have to make due to relocating and having over 80% of your population utterly dead. Guess what, as the white population gets larger and larger and with notions of “Manifest Destiny,” your government is disbanded and eventually your forced into small Indian reservations.

    “And dont give me this " The Europeans stole our land” crap, was it your land?..no!
    The Natives fought for what they thought was theirs and lost. "

    Tell me, how is land claimed or owned? How do you know this land is really yours? However, before the whites there was not this concept of “this is mine, that is yours.” No, a lot of NA believed the land belonged to mother nature and they were there to enjoy its bounty.

    “Does Germany cry about WW2? Does Japan?”

    Did Germany cry after WWI? Do the war crimes committed by Imerpial Japan still go unacknowledged by their government?



  • Here in New England, the tribes are opening casinos on reservations. Trust me, here in the North East, pale-face is paying them back!!!
    All kidding aside, it’s really sparking the dying economies in Connecticut. All people (not just native americans) have good jobs with excellent benefits. They’re finally realizing the American dream!



  • Ha, good one. But I can see Indiana Casinos as a good thing. They do provide much needed revenue (both directly and indirectly) to the state. It’s also an alternative to Las Vegas. (Las Vegas hotel owners pay California lawmakers under the table to try and outlaw gambling as much as possible here 😮 ).



  • Here in the Pacific Northwest Native American Tribers practiced slavery and valued the life of a human being at one bracelet. Of course in Europe 3,000 years ago a human was valued at about 1/3 of a goat.



  • "I hope this dosen’t come off sounding predudice, but The situation with “Native Americans” In our country and more spesificaly in my state, annoys me like you wouldn’t belive.

    Do they have reservations in Canada? I know they don’t in Mexico.

    What a pile of crap! I was born here too, dosn’t that make me a native?

    I think that this has gone on long enough the US government should just declare reservations obsolete and treat the tribes like private companies, which is basicaly what they are, and quit giving them handouts and making special rules for them."

    I have family in Arizona, ande all Arizonans are such racists! I mean damn, do you see those so called “reservations”? You might as well give them a dumb in brooklyn.

    “What a pile of crap! I was born here too, dosn’t that make me a native?”

    No, you are a descendent of someone who benefitted from the Spanish, French, and English dudes who killed anyone in their way. Even buffaloes! (those basdtards.)

    “I think that this has gone on long enough the US government should just declare reservations obsolete and treat the tribes like private companies, which is basicaly what they are, and quit giving them handouts and making special rules for them.”

    Reservations, casinos, and taxless cigarettes are the “compensation” for us raping them up the ass without lubing up (in other words stealing their land and keeping them “down” economically.) Reservations? They should be allowed to have them…they are not worth anything anyway. Taxless cigarettes and gas? No, that only helps organized crime.

    I’m one of those guy’s who doesn’t believe in compensation (like money given to descendents of slaves, holocaust survivors, and things of the sort.) The best we can do is move on and not seperate people from each other from what happened in the past.

    But why would you take away their reservations? That is the little crap they even have left.



  • “Even buffaloes! (those basdtards.)”

    Ha, this is too great not to laugh at! :lol: But us Americans are responsible for this too. Remember the railroads?

    Yeah, I seen the reservations in California. Wouldn’t exactly call them 5-Star Hotels.



  • @TG:

    “Even buffaloes! (those basdtards.)”

    Ha, this is too great not to laugh at! :lol: But us Americans are responsible for this too. Remember the railroads?

    Yeah, I seen the reservations in California. Wouldn’t exactly call them 5-Star Hotels.

    Exactly. It kind of sucks that the only way to “make it” is to leave the land and assimilate.



  • They should just give the buffalo to the diehard NA’s (and there are quite a few of them; otherwise we wouldn’t probably be having this discussion) to hunt and some of the government owned land (which still owns about 25% of all American soil) for them to hunt on.

    Come on, we sort of do this for the Eskimos in terms of whaling



  • @TG:

    They should just give the buffalo to the diehard NA’s (and there are quite a few of them; otherwise we wouldn’t probably be having this discussion) to hunt and some of the government owned land (which still owns about 25% of all American soil) for them to hunt on.

    Come on, we sort of do this for the Eskimos in terms of whaling

    No way, set up land so they can hunt a endangered species???

    The NA dont need to hunt buffalo to survive.

    Can they set aside land in Ireland so my friends and I can set up a feudal society?

    Ridiculous!



  • @Mr:

    Can they set aside land in Ireland so my friends and I can set up a feudal society?

    Actually, that sounds like fun!


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