• Irresponsible people are responsible for every action they take, regardless of what drug they’re on. When they’re on marijauna however, they’re judgements and decisions are severly impaired.

    BTW-Why do people keep listing alcohol has they’re argument for legalizing marijauna? I can’t understand this. Stick to the topic. You can’t justify legalizing something just because there are “worse things” out there. That makes absolutely no sense. Find a better arguement and make a convincing statement, and then maybe I’ll believe you.

    Cystic, nobody is debating that those things you listed don’t do horrible things, but you’re original post said that marijauna was a “victimless” crime, and that the only person affected by it is those who smoke it. Hardly so.


  • @izcoder:

    Irresponsible people are responsible for every action they take, regardless of what drug they’re on. When they’re on marijauna however, they’re judgements and decisions are severly impaired.

    BTW-Why do people keep listing alcohol has they’re argument for legalizing marijauna? I can’t understand this. Stick to the topic. You can’t justify legalizing something just because there are “worse things” out there. That makes absolutely no sense. Find a better arguement and make a convincing statement, and then maybe I’ll believe you.

    Cystic, nobody is debating that those things you listed don’t do horrible things, but you’re original post said that marijauna was a “victimless” crime, and that the only person affected by it is those who smoke it. Hardly so.

    The alcohol argument was included with many other arguments. Deal with the fact that sometimes it is useful to draw analogies from other sources in order to “firm up” an argument.
    By your logic, my writing a prescription is a crime and not a victimless one. By prescribing insulin and/or a sulfonylurea drug, i am quite possibly inducing hypoglycemia. In a person with hypoglycemia unawareness (and there are many) i might well contribute to them getting into a car accident and killing many people. At the same time, they are usually subject to weight gain - a problem that compounds their already-present risk of cardiovascular disease. Not a victimless crime. At the same time, if my patient uses what i prescribe responsibly, and we work to prevent the possible sequilae of the meds, then it is possible (but by no means guarenteed) that they may prevent some of these problems.
    Likewise a person who takes marijane responsibly - in their own home, with no plans to drive, avoiding while pregnant - is harming no body except maybe their own lungs (and usually given the frequency of the average user, their tobacco is killing them more quickly). If we regulate the sale of it we may make it even safer than tobacco (from a medical standpoint).
    Of course diabetes has nothing to do with marijuana use, but i’m certain that someone somewhere might back up my use of analogous situations in a debate setting.


  • I hear you CC.

    An arguement for keeping Pot illegal base on the fact that it may cause car crashes is weak.
    So is saying that it is harmful to use it.
    If someone wants to fry their brain in the comfort of their own home, well frankly thats that person business.

    Its harmful for someone( like CC said) to over eat high-Glycemic foods.
    Maybe causing harm to other people as well, should we outlaw these types of eating habits?


  • Oh, pleeeeeease. Don’t even begin to compare prescription drugs to marijauna. Prescription drugs are for people who are suffering from some medical ailement. The way I understand it (and correct me if I’m wrong) you’re talking about legalizing marijauana for recreational use. Now, I’ve all ready said that I don’t have has much a problem with legalizing marijauna for those folks who are in so much pain that nothing else will help them, but legalizing one more deadly drug for purely “recreational” use is absurd.


  • “deadly”?
    the hyperbole is not helping your case. marijuana is less lethal than fast food, nicotine, automobiles, water (which drowns more people than marijuana kills) etc.
    putting decent people in jail for recreational marijuana use is even more absurd.


  • You seem to be confusing “less lethal” with “completely harmless”. Are you forgetting the effects that legalizing marijauna for the entire country will have? So far, I’ve only heard three things repeated over and over again.
    1.) Alcohol is way worse than marijuana, therefore marijuana should be legalized.
    2.) We’re wasting money fighting this battle.
    3.) I have a right to do marijuana as long as I don’t harm anyone else.

    Here’s my problem with these arguments.
    1.) Legalizing marijuana will do nothing to solve the problems we have today concerning alcohol, it will only add to it.
    Making marijuana legal=more widespread use=more fatalities resulting from increased usage.
    2.) The majority of American people (so far) have no problem with this.
    3.) Need I remind everyone here that you have NO CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to get high. Regardless of if you feel like you’re hurting anyone or not, the drug is illegal for a reason.


  • @izcoder:

    You seem to be confusing “less lethal” with “completely harmless”. Are you forgetting the effects that legalizing marijauna for the entire country will have? So far, I’ve only heard three things repeated over and over again.
    1.) Alcohol is way worse than marijuana, therefore marijuana should be legalized.
    2.) We’re wasting money fighting this battle.
    3.) I have a right to do marijuana as long as I don’t harm anyone else.

    Here’s my problem with these arguments.
    1.) Legalizing marijuana will do nothing to solve the problems we have today concerning alcohol, it will only add to it.
    Making marijuana legal=more widespread use=more fatalities resulting from increased usage.
    2.) The majority of American people (so far) have no problem with this.
    3.) Need I remind everyone here that you have NO CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to get high. Regardless of if you feel like you’re hurting anyone or not, the drug is illegal for a reason.

    You’re not doing justice to my arguments. I was using alcohol as an example of a circumstance where people can enjoy it responsibly (and many do) without repercussions (unless they do so irresponsibly). The same goes for driving, swiming, parachuting, etc. When people are less responsible then there are lethal effects. Same thing with marijuana use. As for more fatalities - well, that again applies to driving, flying, sports, fast food - the more users, the more deaths. At the same time, i am not convinced that marijuana is anywhere as lethal as the examples i mentioned.
    The majority of the American people do not vocalize a problem with this. I dare say that more Americans than you know do have a problem. Most of them don’t say anything because of potential financial/business/career/family/political repercussions. As far as the constitution goes - there are many rights people have that are not explicitly stated. As a Canadian, i don’t really care about the American constitution. I do get offended at American policy against drugs impressing itself on Canadians and our business.
    But i don’t, and few of my friends even use pot. Is there not a sane marijuana user that wants to take over the helm here? (before i get labelled . . . ).


  • @cystic:

    I dare say that more Americans than you know do have a problem.

    Where are you getting this information from?


  • @izcoder:

    @cystic:

    I dare say that more Americans than you know do have a problem.

    Where are you getting this information from?

    oh, a wild guess.
    Do you actually believe that you know of all of your friends, acquaintances and family which of them do/have done pot and which haven’t?
    I’m guessing more than you think.


  • Just becuase people do marijuana doesn’t mean you can use that as an excuse to legalize it! I don’t care who is doing it, it doesn’t make it any less dangerous!

    Here are some interesting facts about marijuana that I picked up, take a look:

    1.) The illegal drug industry ranks in size with Mobil Oil as our second largest business – only Exxon is larger.

    2.) Cocaine is now the leading cash flow drug a 26-32 billion a year.

    3.) The U.S. Spends almost as much money on marijuana – 18-26 billion a year – as its spends on import oil. Marijuana is California’s largest cash crop.

    4.) The drug paraphernalia business was a 3 billion a year industry in 1979.

    5.) This year, among American high school seniors, one in 11 is a daily user of marijuana.

    6.) Today’s cultivated marijuana has an average potency of 4% THC – the major psychoactive ingredient – as compared to the marijuana of the 60’s which had an average potency of .25% THC. Today’s marijuana is 10 to 15 times stronger than that of the 60’s.

    7.) THC remains in the fatty tissues of body cells, especially in the brain and the reproductive organs. Even a week after marijuana joint is smoked, 30-50% of the THC is still in the body in active form. It takes 3 to 6 weeks to eliminate all THC from the body. More frequent use means that the user is never drug-free, in fact, there is a gradual accumulation of the drug in the fatty tissues of the body.

    8.)There are over 7,000 published scientific and medical studies documenting the damage that marijuana does to the various systems of the body. Not one study give marijuana a clean bill of health.

    9.) Marijuana is a complex material containing 421 chemicals, 60 of which are found only in marijuana.

    10.) Five typical marijuana cigarettes have the same cancer-causing capability as 112 tobacco cigarettes. Marijuana tar has more carcinogens than tobacco tar, and the smoke is inhaled more deeply, further aggravating the lungs and the respiratory system.

    11.) Reaction time for the motor skills, such as driving, is reduced by 41% after smoking one joint and by 63% after smoking 2 joints.
    Marijuana use reduces or alters the fundamental cellular defense against disease. White blood cell count is reduced 41% from normal levels with regular use of the drug.

    12.) THC has been found to interfere with the transmission of brain messages; EEG’s of regular users exhibit abnormal brain wave patterns.

    DRUGS AND ALCOHOL IN THE WORKPLACE
    1.) 10% of all workers have an alcohol problem

    2.) 6% of all workers have a drug problem

    3.) 5,000 work related fatalities yearly are due to drugs and alcohol

    4.) 1 million work related serious injuries are due to drugs and alcohol yearly

    5.) Cost to industries due to alcohol abuse is $77 billion per year

    6.) Cost to industries due to drug abuse is $27 billion per year

    7.) Lost productivity due to drugs and alcohol is $44 billion per year

    Alcohol and Drug Abusers:
    are late 3 times more than other employees
    are 2 1/2 times more likely to leave work early, take time oft, be absent
    use 3 times more sick days
    have 4 times as many on the job accidents
    use 8 times as many hospital days
    Assisting an employee who has a drug probem is more cost effective than hiring a new employee. The firing/hiring process is expensive and there is no guarantee that the new employee will not suffer a similar problem.
    60% of all employees can be successfully rehabilitated if they seek treatment. This reduces the absentee rate from 8% down to 3%.


  • Not one of these reasons convinces me that those who use marijuana should be thrown in jail.
    They are quite good reasons for stringent regulation of the sale and production of the drug, particularly where minors and motor vehical use is concerned (for that matter i think drugs with ephidrine should be better controlled as well), but not one of them is a good reason for my dozen or so neighbours, friends and family members to go to jail. Every person i know who consumes or has consumed marijuana is a very productive member of society. In jail they would suck tax money out of the system, they would not contribute to society, and nothing in the world would change for the better. (mind you, this is a small sample, but surely you get my point).
    And where is my support from all you potheads who posted in the “game of HIGH adventure” thread?
    TG, Chris, Xi - i’m looking at you guys.


  • Marijuana is much more dangerous than insulin shots, silly Crypt. Fast food doesn’t destroy your memory, your motor skills, weaken your immune system, or give you throat cancer.


  • @yourbuttocks:

    Marijuana is much more dangerous than insulin shots, silly Crypt. Fast food doesn’t destroy your memory, your motor skills, weaken your immune system, or give you throat cancer.

    Marijuana is not necessarily more dangerous than insulin shots. As i said - they can lead to hypoglycemia VERY readily - even if taken “properly” according to prescription and under controlled circumstances.
    Fast food can cause athero/arteriosclerosis which can lead to: 1) strokes - causing memory loss as well as other cognitive defects as well as loss of limb function and death, 2) myocardial infarction - which can kill you, renal artery stenosis - hypertension, kidney damage. This is not including the nitrates and other chemicals, as well as cancer causing agents in burgers and the french fries.
    Also casual recreational use does not necessarily lead to the effects you mentioned. Maybe, but not necessarily.
    Why am i defending marijuana use? I hate it, and i hate when my friends use it.


  • LOL! I never thought I’d hear the day when somebody compared marijuana to fast food. Can anyone say “Bill Mahr”…?

    Marijuana affects you negatively regardless of how much you take. You are affected if one way or another. Fast food leads to long term illness, and eating a hamburger will not necessarily make you more dangerous! C’mon Crypt…let’s be realistic here…


  • Yeah, Crypt, you’re coming up against two conservatives (conservative at least on the drug issue) in Seattle. Conservatives have to be an especially tough breed to oppose abortion/drugs up here. Are you in Jsa IZ?


  • That’s right, you know what they say…
    “If you’re not a liberal when you’re 25, you have no heart. If you’re not a conservative by the time you’re 35, you have no brain.”

    Ok, so maybe I have no heart. But I’m sure as hell not gonna waste my time being a liberal! :lol:


  • @yourbuttocks:

    Yeah, Crypt, you’re coming up against two conservatives (conservative at least on the drug issue) in Seattle. Conservatives have to be an especially tough breed to oppose abortion/drugs up here. Are you in Jsa IZ?

    Jsa IZ?
    i don’t know where/what that is, so prolly not.


  • Crypt, he was asking me, IZ, if I was in JSA (Junior Statesmen of America). The answer is no YB.


  • once more i am reminded that i’m not as smart or important as i think i am.
    :oops:


  • See as Crypt having to fight a debate two against one, I like to help out my friends from “Up North.”

    Don’t forget car crashes, terrorist funding, increased use among peers, and damage to fetus while pregnant…marijauna use is not quite the “victimless” crime you so gallanty portray.

    First I like to clear up whatever notions you had about “drug trafficking.” The reason why drug lords (which do funnel money to terrorism) are filthy rich is because those very drugs are illegal. With drugs illegal, the price of marijuana skyrockets, given an excuse for many to peruse this profitable drug trade. It also gives the drug lords the financial backing to influence the corruption in their countries government Money is exacerbated out of America to pay for these drugs, crippling our international balance of trade. With drugs legal, that money stays inside the United States. If you want to see a classic example of this, compare prohibition with Al Capone. As for the never-ending drug war, we are on the losing end of it. If Evo Morales does get elected in Bolivia (very strong chance of this), expect US’s billion-dollar program of “eradication” to go to waste.

    BTW-Why do people keep listing alcohol has they’re argument for legalizing marijauna? I can’t understand this. Stick to the topic. You can’t justify legalizing something just because there are “worse things” out there. That makes absolutely no sense. Find a better arguement and make a convincing statement, and then maybe I’ll believe you.

    Government prohibition is the perfect example of why banning drugs is relatively pointless. It makes a very good argument.

    Cystic, nobody is debating that those things you listed don’t do horrible things, but you’re original post said that marijauna was a “victimless” crime, and that the only person affected by it is those who smoke it. Hardly so.

    Nothing is ever a “victimless” crime. It only depends on how people are affected.

    An arguement for keeping Pot illegal base on the fact that it may cause car crashes is weak.

    Flipping radio stations is the leading cause of car crashes due to driver inattention to the road. I know, lets ban the radio! :)

    Need I remind everyone here that you have NO CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to get high.

    AMENDMENT IV
    “The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”

    What keeps me from smoking pot in the privacy of my own house without the government unlawfully spying and arresting on unreasonable house searches and seizures for drug procession?

    Yeah, Crypt, you’re coming up against two conservatives (conservative at least on the drug issue) in Seattle. Conservatives have to be an especially tough breed to oppose abortion/drugs up here. Are you in Jsa IZ?

    To tell you the truth, never really liked JSA. Always got stuck to work with a whole bunch of girls that couldn’t hold a candle to my “Conservative Right.” Also Crypt, don’t do drugs! In my opinion, drugs would actually dull my senses and make me “normal!” :P

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