India crush, how to stop


  • Customizer

    Stoney, after you crush me in the game we are now playing, we can give it a go - but I’m Japan  😄



  • It seems the Jap counter will be an airbase in KWA, then if you go near the coast they can send the entire airforce at you. Essentially you’ll only get one turn of free movement, when the Japanese airforce actually goes in for the India crush.



  • @jim010:

    There will only be 1 TT on US 2, and only 2 planes to hit Kor or Jap with.  Not enough.  Maybe by US 3, but the Jap fleet (minus carriers) will be back in Phi.

    I guess other ppl do the India crush different than I do.  Do other people kill the z26 trn J1?  I like being able to not attack on J1 b/c I can still get just as far by J3 (India+ some) and US doesn’t get the extra load of $$.  However, I might not be able to do that strat if US buys the base on US1.



  • @Gwlachmai:

    It seems the Jap counter will be an airbase in KWA, then if you go near the coast they can send the entire airforce at you. Essentially you’ll only get one turn of free movement, when the Japanese airforce actually goes in for the India crush.

    You can’t scramble from non-island airbases.


  • Customizer

    He’s not talking about scrambling from Kwa - US fleet would be nowhere near there.

    He means that you need to time it right, because with the India push there are about 18 planes in Kwa, another 6 on CV and the remaining couple in Jap.  With the airbase in Kwa, all planes make it back to attack the US fleet in sz6 along with some Jap ships.



  • I know this is the forum for how to STOP the India crush, but I came up with a strategy for crushing India, and since I’m a beginner, I’m very excited about it. If this is old news, I’m sorry, but it’s new to me!

    J1:
    -Buy 3 transports in Japan
    -Bomb the crap outta all the Chinese units you can, take Yunnan, Hunan, Anhwe and Chahar. All strategic bombers MUST end in Kwangsi.
    -Move your fleet from SZ6 and SZ19 to SZ36, bringing a tank, two infantry and an artillery on the transports. Leave the SZ6 (not SZ19) destroyers behind.
    -DO NOT DECLARE ON THE ALLIES… yet.

    Allied1:
    -They will probably see the giant stack coming, so most ANZAC and US units will most likely move towards India. UK units will start moving out, and they will take all the Dutch islands.
    -Yunnan will be retaken.

    J2:
    -Buy a naval base and an air base in Kwangsi. Move the navy you have in SZ36 to take India (after taking care of the navy that will probably be in Malaysia), and attack with your strategic bombers in Kwangsi too.
    -Take the Philippines with the Caroline Islands navy, and take out the battleship/transports in the East Indies with it too.
    -Keep taking China, including Yunnan.
    -Defend SE Asia with fighters and tacticals.
    -Move your 3 transports (loaded with 5 infantry and 1 artillery) and 2 destroyers to SZ36.
    -Defend Japan with fighters and a couple infantry, should the US attack.
    -If you feel confident, take Shan State (may work, will weaken UK).
    -Build a defending navy in Japan.

    Allied2:
    -Yunnan and India will be retaken.
    -SE Asia MAY fall to the Allies.
    -Japan MAY fall to the US.
    -UK MAY build an IC in Malaysia.

    J3:
    -With your SZ36 transports either: retake Japan, or retake India. Retake Japan if it was taken, retake India if Japan wasn’t taken. If your going to take India, and an IC was built in Malaysia, take Malaysia on the way over with a couple infantry. Bombing is ESSENTIAL here.
    -Keep taking China. Take Yunnan.
    -With your SZ36 destroyers, move to defend your Pacific Islands.

    Allied3:
    -Be wary of ANZAC raiding parties at this point, as they will have had a chance to get into the Indies. Much of the Japanese Pacific is at risk. Your SZ36 destroyers will have to defend the Caroline Islands and the Philippines.
    -The US will be weakened from their attempt to take Japan. Even if they did take it, you will most likely have retaken it. If not, you lose.

    J4-J5:
    -Take the rest of SE Asia, finish off the Chinese (or try) and take the Dutch Islands (+Borneo) with your transports and any units you can get onto them.
    -Now you can either head for Honolulu or Sydney, and you’re making so many IPCs your opponent might as well surrender.

    The point of this strategy is to cut the UK off of production, and thus roughly 40 of their IPCs will go down the drain, possibly more, I didn’t do the math. They will only be able to build 16 IPCs worth of stuff on their first turn, and every other turn will be building up money until Japan wipes them out. It’s a little risky (due to leaving Japan fairly weak), but it might make for a fun change from the usual J1 India crush. However, I’m betting that either there is a giant flaw in this plan AND/OR it doesn’t adhere to all the rules. Either way, I would love to hear what you think of it.  🙂

    Again, sorry for going off-topic… but better than making a thread that would just clutter this forum up, right…? Riiiiight…?



  • @hewhoisnickel:

    I know this is the forum for how to STOP the India crush, but I came up with a strategy for crushing India, and since I’m a beginner, I’m very excited about it. If this is old news, I’m sorry, but it’s new to me!

    J1:
    -Buy 3 transports in Japan
    -Bomb the crap outta all the Chinese units you can, take Yunnan, Hunan, Anhwe and Chahar. All strategic bombers MUST end in Kwangsi.
    -Move your fleet from SZ6 and SZ19 to SZ36, bringing a tank, two infantry and an artillery on the transports. Leave the SZ6 (not SZ19) destroyers behind.
    -DO NOT DECLARE ON THE ALLIES… yet.

    Allied1:
    -They will probably see the giant stack coming, so most ANZAC and US units will most likely move towards India. UK units will start moving out, and they will take all the Dutch islands.
    -Yunnan will be retaken.

    J2:
    -Buy a naval base and an air base in Kwangsi. Move the navy you have in SZ36 to take India (after taking care of the navy that will probably be in Malaysia), and attack with your strategic bombers in Kwangsi too.
    -Take the Philippines with the Caroline Islands navy, and take out the battleship/transports in the East Indies with it too.
    -Keep taking China, including Yunnan.
    -Defend SE Asia with fighters and tacticals.
    -Move your 3 transports (loaded with 5 infantry and 1 artillery) and 2 destroyers to SZ36.
    -Defend Japan with fighters and a couple infantry, should the US attack.
    -If you feel confident, take Shan State (may work, will weaken UK).
    -Build a defending navy in Japan.

    Allied2:
    -Yunnan and India will be retaken.
    -SE Asia MAY fall to the Allies.
    -Japan MAY fall to the US.
    -UK MAY build an IC in Malaysia.

    J3:
    -With your SZ36 transports either: retake Japan, or retake India. Retake Japan if it was taken, retake India if Japan wasn’t taken. If your going to take India, and an IC was built in Malaysia, take Malaysia on the way over with a couple infantry. Bombing is ESSENTIAL here.
    -Keep taking China. Take Yunnan.
    -With your SZ36 destroyers, move to defend your Pacific Islands.

    Allied3:
    -Be wary of ANZAC raiding parties at this point, as they will have had a chance into the Indies. Much of the Japanese Pacific is at risk. Your SZ36 destroyers will have to defend the Caroline Islands and the Philippines.
    -The US will be weakened from their attempt to take Japan. Even if they did take it, you will most likely have retaken it. If not, you lose.

    J4-J5:
    -Take the rest of SE Asia, finish off the Chinese (or try) and take the Dutch Islands (+Borneo) with your transports and any units you can get onto them.
    -Now you can either head for Honolulu or Sydney, and you’re making so many IPCs your opponent might as well surrender.

    The point of this strategy is to cut the UK off of production, and thus roughly 40 of their IPCs will go down the drain, possibly more, I didn’t do the math. They will only be able to build 16 IPCs worth of stuff on their first turn, and every other turn will be building up money until Japan wipes them out. It’s a little risky (due to leaving Japan fairly weak), but it might make for a fun change from the usual J1 India crush. However, I’m betting that either there is a giant flaw in this plan AND/OR it doesn’t adhere to all the rules. Either way, I would love to hear what you think of it.  🙂

    Again, sorry for going off-topic… but better than making a thread that would just clutter this forum up, right…? Riiiiight…?

    I also enjoy the J2 India crush as I said before.  See here and here.  I still think I might not be able to win with it if the US puts a naval base on Midway turn 1, but my opponents don’t do this!



  • @hewhoisnickel:

    I know this is the forum for how to STOP the India crush, but I came up with a strategy for crushing India, and since I’m a beginner, I’m very excited about it. If this is old news, I’m sorry, but it’s new to me!

    J1:
    -Buy 3 transports in Japan
    -Bomb the crap outta all the Chinese units you can, take Yunnan, Hunan, Anhwe and Chahar. All strategic bombers MUST end in Kwangsi.
    -Move your fleet from SZ6 and SZ19 to SZ36, bringing a tank, two infantry and an artillery on the transports. Leave the SZ6 (not SZ19) destroyers behind.
    -DO NOT DECLARE ON THE ALLIES… yet.

    Allied1:
    -They will probably see the giant stack coming, so most ANZAC and US units will most likely move towards India. UK units will start moving out, and they will take all the Dutch islands.
    -Yunnan will be retaken.

    J2:
    -Buy a naval base and an air base in Kwangsi. Move the navy you have in SZ36 to take India (after taking care of the navy that will probably be in Malaysia), and attack with your strategic bombers in Kwangsi too.
    -Take the Philippines with the Caroline Islands navy, and take out the battleship/transports in the East Indies with it too.
    -Keep taking China, including Yunnan.
    -Defend SE Asia with fighters and tacticals.
    -Move your 3 transports (loaded with 5 infantry and 1 artillery) and 2 destroyers to SZ36.
    -Defend Japan with fighters and a couple infantry, should the US attack.
    -If you feel confident, take Shan State (may work, will weaken UK).
    -Build a defending navy in Japan.

    Allied2:
    -Yunnan and India will be retaken.
    -SE Asia MAY fall to the Allies.
    -Japan MAY fall to the US.
    -UK MAY build an IC in Malaysia.

    J3:
    -With your SZ36 transports either: retake Japan, or retake India. Retake Japan if it was taken, retake India if Japan wasn’t taken. If your going to take India, and an IC was built in Malaysia, take Malaysia on the way over with a couple infantry. Bombing is ESSENTIAL here.
    -Keep taking China. Take Yunnan.
    -With your SZ36 destroyers, move to defend your Pacific Islands.

    Allied3:
    -Be wary of ANZAC raiding parties at this point, as they will have had a chance to get into the Indies. Much of the Japanese Pacific is at risk. Your SZ36 destroyers will have to defend the Caroline Islands and the Philippines.
    -The US will be weakened from their attempt to take Japan. Even if they did take it, you will most likely have retaken it. If not, you lose.

    J4-J5:
    -Take the rest of SE Asia, finish off the Chinese (or try) and take the Dutch Islands (+Borneo) with your transports and any units you can get onto them.
    -Now you can either head for Honolulu or Sydney, and you’re making so many IPCs your opponent might as well surrender.

    The point of this strategy is to cut the UK off of production, and thus roughly 40 of their IPCs will go down the drain, possibly more, I didn’t do the math. They will only be able to build 16 IPCs worth of stuff on their first turn, and every other turn will be building up money until Japan wipes them out. It’s a little risky (due to leaving Japan fairly weak), but it might make for a fun change from the usual J1 India crush. However, I’m betting that either there is a giant flaw in this plan AND/OR it doesn’t adhere to all the rules. Either way, I would love to hear what you think of it.  🙂

    Again, sorry for going off-topic… but better than making a thread that would just clutter this forum up, right…? Riiiiight…?

    If UK blocks Malaya SZ w/ a Destroyer, the SZ36 Fleet can’t get to India on the 2nd turn. You can’t use the ships in a sea combat and then an amphib in different SZ’s.



  • @calvinhobbesliker:

    If UK blocks Malaya SZ w/ a Destroyer, the SZ36 Fleet can’t get to India on the 2nd turn. You can’t use the ships in a sea combat and then an amphib in different SZ’s.

    You could bomb the destroyer/cruiser with tacticals first, and then bomb India with strategic bombers and THEN attack India with an amphibious assault, could you not? I somehow doubt it, but could you?



  • @hewhoisnickel:

    @calvinhobbesliker:

    If UK blocks Malaya SZ w/ a Destroyer, the SZ36 Fleet can’t get to India on the 2nd turn. You can’t use the ships in a sea combat and then an amphib in different SZ’s.

    You could bomb the destroyer/cruiser with tacticals first, and then bomb India with strategic bombers and THEN attack India with an amphibious assault, could you not? I somehow doubt it, but could you?

    I don’t think nickel is trying to get to Ind on J2.  he’s going on J3.  With the right Japanese moves, you can succussfully invade India on J3 with a J2 attack, regardless of Allied movements.  My question would be whether or not the Allies can take enough advantage of this “all-out” maneuver to put Japan in trouble even after India falls or force it to abandon the all-out India assault (at least to the degree that it is too costly) in order to defend Kor/Jap.



  • @hewhoisnickel:

    @calvinhobbesliker:

    If UK blocks Malaya SZ w/ a Destroyer, the SZ36 Fleet can’t get to India on the 2nd turn. You can’t use the ships in a sea combat and then an amphib in different SZ’s.

    You could bomb the destroyer/cruiser with tacticals first, and then bomb India with strategic bombers and THEN attack India with an amphibious assault, could you not? I somehow doubt it, but could you?

    No, all combat moves must be made simultaneously, so the ships must move at the same time as the tacticals. Thus, the ships will have to stop to destroy any blockers.



  • @Stoney229:

    @hewhoisnickel:

    @calvinhobbesliker:

    If UK blocks Malaya SZ w/ a Destroyer, the SZ36 Fleet can’t get to India on the 2nd turn. You can’t use the ships in a sea combat and then an amphib in different SZ’s.

    You could bomb the destroyer/cruiser with tacticals first, and then bomb India with strategic bombers and THEN attack India with an amphibious assault, could you not? I somehow doubt it, but could you?

    I don’t think nickel is trying to get to Ind on J2.  he’s going on J3.  With the right Japanese moves, you can succussfully invade India on J3 with a J2 attack, regardless of Allied movements.  My question would be whether or not the Allies can take enough advantage of this “all-out” maneuver to put Japan in trouble even after India falls or force it to abandon the all-out India assault (at least to the degree that it is too costly) in order to defend Kor/Jap.

    I know its J2 since for J3 he says “Retake India.” He also says that “UK will retake India” for UK 2



  • The more I think about this, the more I think the India crush should be unstoppable.

    How could Japan ever win tis game?  It seems unlikely to me that Japan could take and hold Hawaii and Queensland - especially without losing Kwangtung.  That means for Japan to have any chance, India must fall, and fall early enough That Japan still has a decent shot vs ANZAC and USA.

    If the game is balanced, there shouldn’t be any way to stop the India crush, but there also shouldn’t be any obvious easy counter strategy.  India should fall , and from there it should be a struggle.  If the game is not balanced, it will need optional rules or a small bid (but not enough to outright thwart the India crush - only enough to fight on After).



  • @calvinhobbesliker:

    @Stoney229:

    @hewhoisnickel:

    @calvinhobbesliker:

    If UK blocks Malaya SZ w/ a Destroyer, the SZ36 Fleet can’t get to India on the 2nd turn. You can’t use the ships in a sea combat and then an amphib in different SZ’s.

    You could bomb the destroyer/cruiser with tacticals first, and then bomb India with strategic bombers and THEN attack India with an amphibious assault, could you not? I somehow doubt it, but could you?

    I don’t think nickel is trying to get to Ind on J2.  he’s going on J3.  With the right Japanese moves, you can succussfully invade India on J3 with a J2 attack, regardless of Allied movements.  My question would be whether or not the Allies can take enough advantage of this “all-out” maneuver to put Japan in trouble even after India falls or force it to abandon the all-out India assault (at least to the degree that it is too costly) in order to defend Kor/Jap.

    I know its J2 since for J3 he says “Retake India.” He also says that “UK will retake India” for UK 2

    Oops, you’re right.  Sorry I missed that.



  • Sorry for causing all that confusion, but evidently, I thought my plan would work. That J2 attack is now practically void, because the whole point was to take India J2 and prevent the UK from using any IPCs after UK1. It seems I’ll need to stick to J1.

    Hmm… I wish there was a general discussion thread in the AAP40 forum. I keep cluttering up this forum with my new threads. Would anyone mind if I made yet another one? I’ve come up with an unhistorical scenario revolving around the rebellion of the Dutch and ANZAC against the British empire, and it would only take up the bottom third of the map. It still needs a lot of work, but so far I think it’s pretty cool. Please tell me whether or not you would mind if I made yet another thread!



  • @zooooma:

    The more I think about this, the more I think the India crush should be unstoppable.

    How could Japan ever win tis game?  It seems unlikely to me that Japan could take and hold Hawaii and Queensland - especially without losing Kwangtung.  That means for Japan to have any chance, India must fall, and fall early enough That Japan still has a decent shot vs ANZAC and USA.

    If the game is balanced, there shouldn’t be any way to stop the India crush, but there also shouldn’t be any obvious easy counter strategy.  India should fall , and from there it should be a struggle.  If the game is not balanced, it will need optional rules or a small bid (but not enough to outright thwart the India crush - only enough to fight on After).

    In the forum games it would seem that India is cleanly takable on turn 3 leading to a highly cashed fueled Japanese player able to out produce the combined wealth of Australia and the USA, as well at the point they turn to the east to capture Haw or Saw they have a HUGE unit advantage, so not only to they make more money, they get India;s money and they have the units (more or less) in place to finish of the Allies.

    THE GAME NEEDS A BID. Quite simply either there exists some obscure strategy which will off set the seemly massive Japanese advantages or the game is moderately imbalanced and  requires players bid for the Allies.  I suspect that the game will make more sense in the context of a linked world game, with the release of APP40 Europe.



  • So what sort of bid are we talking about for the Allies here?

    Oh, and Nickel, you can post whatever threads you want and if they’re annoying to people they can ignore them, or if they’re too much for whatever reason a mod will correct you, but what you’re talking about sounds like it should go in the House Rules forum rather than here.



  • It’s easy to stop the attack as India. Just buy a couple AA guns on the first turn. ANZAC’s motive is to disrupt Japanese convoys. Coming from a guy who loves to use an “unstoppable” India crush, I was CERTAINLY set back by the AA guns, as your air force is of vital importance to you for the first 4 turns. The Indian player will typically see this attack coming, stock up all infantry, and bring their infantry back to India. Really, it isnt India’s capture you should worry about but Japan’s taking of the DEI. ANZAC is supposed to make a TON of submarines, nothing else, and convoy disrupt and transport hunt. Later on in the game, if opportunity permits, then it can build somewhat of a navy. MAYBE at some point it can get an aircraft carrier but I’ve never played to get to put a battleship on the board (Sadly =/) Submarines are key against the Japanese air force. USA? Declare war on Japan in however way possible to go into wartime economy, build all submarines for the first two wartime economy turns, and then get firepower (Battleships or aircraft carriers)

    USA needs to keep building while India and China survive for about…… 4 turns. By survive, I mean survive. Chances are both countries will be drained as all hell, but they’ll be there if you implement the right tactics (Which I ought to explain Chinese tactics in another thread…), and fun little British firefight tactics. You get a means of defending yourself against the japanese (4 aircraft). AA guns are your best friend. Also, you can choose to scramble a single fighter if the Japanese try to bombard India, preventing the bombard, and the AA guns will sever the japanese planes so much, they’ll need time to recover their airforce. Otherwise, big bad America is gonna flatten out their navy.

    I’ll post my variation of the India Crush, and a strategy on stopping it soon. It may seem that my directions are vague now, but I should show the community in time. Take this with a grain of salt as a general strategy.



  • @SunLiRen:

    AA guns are your best friend. Also, you can choose to scramble a single fighter if the Japanese try to bombard India, preventing the bombard, and the AA guns will sever the japanese planes so much, they’ll need time to recover their airforce.

    I’m not exactly sure how you’re planning on using AA guns, but first off, you can’t scramble a fighter from India to stop a bombardment.  The rules clearly say that you can only scramble planes from an island airbase, so the only way you could do that to protect India would be to build an airbase on Ceylon and put the fighter there… 😐



  • @SilverAngelSurfer:

    … you can’t scramble a fighter from India to stop a bombardment.  The rules clearly say that you can only scramble planes from an island airbase, so the only way you could do that to protect India would be to build an airbase on Ceylon and put the fighter there… 😐

    A cheaper way to deny the shore bombardment is to buy a destroyer each turn, ohh, and they will block movement too.



  • @SilverAngelSurfer:

    I’m not exactly sure how you’re planning on using AA guns, but first off, you can’t scramble a fighter from India to stop a bombardment.  The rules clearly say that you can only scramble planes from an island airbase.

    You can scramble against a SBR anywhere.  The island base is needed to scramble into the sea zone.



  • @zooooma:

    @SilverAngelSurfer:

    I’m not exactly sure how you’re planning on using AA guns, but first off, you can’t scramble a fighter from India to stop a bombardment.  The rules clearly say that you can only scramble planes from an island airbase.

    You can scramble against a SBR anywhere.  The island base is needed to scramble into the sea zone.

    @SunLiRen:

    AA guns are your best friend. Also, you can choose to scramble a single fighter if the Japanese try to bombard India, preventing the bombard, and the AA guns will sever the japanese planes so much, they’ll need time to recover their airforce. Otherwise, big bad America is gonna flatten out their navy.

    The bolded part above is what I was responding to.  I am aware of the new escort rules, but that was not part of the discussion.



  • My bad.  I was confusing offshore bombardment with strategic bombardment.  :oops:



  • @zooooma:

    My bad.  I was confusing offshore bombardment with strategic bombardment.   :oops:

    No problem.



  • I believe india was not as populous back then as it was today.


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