• '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    @ncscswitch:

    Just trying to figure out how you stack Karelia as Russia…  at least without immediate and expensive Allied support, as well as not losing Caucuses in trade…

    Read what I typed.  You gloss over too much and miss the details of the message.

    First stack W. Russia, THEN stack Karelia.  This implies at least a two round build up.  But I never stated it had to be done in two rounds, in fact, you’re probably looking at 3 or 4 rounds minimum depending on what your allies do.


  • And even then, it would preclude any major German stacking to achieve it.

    If Russia is STACKING Karelia, AND still has Caucuses, Germany is already pretty much TOAST.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Germany almost always is toast against my Russia anyway.  It’s Japan that finally defeats Russia, but Germany’s almost always been reduced to Berlin, primarily because they cannot hope to pound through the Russians, Brits and Americans in Karelia and trading E. Europe.

    Forget taking Caucasus.  You cannot even hold E. Europe without major assistance from Japan.


  • Germany almost always is toast against my Russia anyway.  It’s Japan that finally defeats Russia, but Germany’s almost always been reduced to Berlin, primarily because they cannot hope to pound through the Russians, Brits and Americans in Karelia and trading E. Europe.

    Agreed, but if Japanese tanks are in range of Moscow, isn’t one or two turns of building 8inf in Russia (Germany is presumably still threatened by UK and US), coupled with a few fighters, enough to prevent losing your capital?  I mean, you’re saying Japan usually proves the bigger threat, but how often do you actually lose Moscow?  Not that often, I would bet.

  • 2007 AAR League

    I think she looses her fair share of capitals.

    In our current game, it’s round 7 and the only “safe” spot for any allied landings is Norway, Germany totally owns Europe and with the Japs already stacked in Novo adding 7-9 tanks a turn compared to 2-3 Russian units a turn it’s just when do I want to strike.

  • 2007 AAR League

    I would have to say that you should be careful about advancing heavy Russian forces too far into Europe. Drawing Russian ground units away from Russia is a trap I frequently like to set with Germany. It gets really had to resist trading a bunch of advanced territories with Germany because the prospect of Russia making 30+ IPC’s a turn puts dollar signs in the Russian player’s eyes. With the Axis outnumbering Russia by 5 to 1 with air units, trading a lot of territories and ground units with Russia almost always favors the Axis, even if the unit trade is 1 for 1. No matter how much Russia makes, Japan always outproduces them by up to twice as many units and that point will get hammered home when a large number of Russian forces are aimed at Germany and their reinforcements going west dry up instantly because they are desperately trying to hold back the flood of Japanese units coming at them. Japan has a tendence to look benign one turn and the next turn be all over the map, in force, and Russia can quickly get into trouble by being too aggressive toward Germany. Especially if the eastern defensive structure is poorly maintained.

    Personally, I prefer the 5 inf, 1 art, 1 arm build on the first turn. It gives you a small offensive capability and still adds a good amound of defensive potential. I also like to add another fighter or two later, within reason, to be more fluid with my defenses and also be able to preserve the few offensive ground units available. I am selective with my trading, as opposed to taking everything in range, in order to keep my units concentrated. I try to delay Germany until the other Allies can pick up the European slack so I can rotate my forces to face Japan. I rarely advance past Belo, preferring to let Germany spread itself thin so the UK/US can pick a few of them off when they finally land in force.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    @NoMercy:

    I think she looses her fair share of capitals.

    In our current game, it’s round 7 and the only “safe” spot for any allied landings is Norway, Germany totally owns Europe and with the Japs already stacked in Novo adding 7-9 tanks a turn compared to 2-3 Russian units a turn it’s just when do I want to strike.

    Big talk from a guy who hasn’t posted a round in forever. :P

    Yea, he’s insane with tanks.  Played a fluke of the dice and got Germany past 50 IPC in Round 2.  It was nuts.  He’s been reduced to Europe only, however, and it’s only a matter of time before he’s forced to throw his units against the Allied front and get reduced to a smoldering lump of destroyed tanks, because he has no support units of which to speak of. :P

  • 2007 AAR League

    I have been busy, sick and my computer has crashed and my tournament game comes first.

    50+ IPC a turn means I will purchase my share of tanks yes, I think you forget my tanks alone is large then your Russian forces and that doesn’t count my 25+ support troops and my Japan troops which aren’t to shabby.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Yes, but you only got 50+ IPC cause of a fluke of the dice.  You didn’t keep it long and you don’t even have a toe hold in Africa anymore.

    You might be able to get into Moscow, but it won’t be the Germans, it’ll be the Japanese - probably.  Unless you specifically force the Japanese to watch until you can somehow muster the troops to take out Moscow. hehe.


  • Yes, but you only got 50+ IPC cause of a fluke of the dice.

    Didn’t I read somewhere that she has a reputation for trash talk?  Booyah, in your face!  This is good stuff! :lol:

  • 2007 AAR League

    She can talk the talk but can she walk the walk??  :evil:  :-ov :wink:


  • @Nix:

    She can talk the talk but can she walk the walk?? :evil: :-ov :wink:

    Are we still talking about Axis & Allies? :wink:

    Nix, I just noticed the quote from Oscar Wilde; that is too funny!  I’m going to borrow that.  Then, when someone laughs (surely someone will laugh :?) I’ll say, “So, you agree with me?!” :-D

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    @goldenbearflyer:

    Yes, but you only got 50+ IPC cause of a fluke of the dice.

    Didn’t I read somewhere that she has a reputation for trash talk?  Booyah, in your face!  This is good stuff! :lol:

    Oh this is total trash talk.  NoMercy’s one of the better players on the forum.  Just the fact that in almost every game he plays he somehow manages to get Germany sky rocketted up to 50 or 60 IPCs in a couple of rounds is testament to taht.

    Though, his Japanese forces are always severely lacking and if he ever gets confronted with a KJF (hint future opponents) he’ll crumble like a house of cards in Hurricane Katrina.  I actually knew that prior to this game, but had temporarily forgotten this little piece of trivia.  Otherwise, I would have gone the KJF route myself on him.  (His entire strategy hinges on the allies retaking land from Germany and hten transferring it to Japan in the hopes that Germany can build fast enough to fall back on itself and allow Japan in the back door.)


  • @Jennifer:

    @goldenbearflyer:

    Yes, but you only got 50+ IPC cause of a fluke of the dice.

    Didn’t I read somewhere that she has a reputation for trash talk? Booyah, in your face! This is good stuff! :lol:

    Oh this is total trash talk. NoMercy’s one of the better players on the forum. Just the fact that in almost every game he plays he somehow manages to get Germany sky rocketted up to 50 or 60 IPCs in a couple of rounds is testament to taht.

    Though, his Japanese forces are always severely lacking and if he ever gets confronted with a KJF (hint future opponents) he’ll crumble like a house of cards in Hurricane Katrina. I actually knew that prior to this game, but had temporarily forgotten this little piece of trivia. Otherwise, I would have gone the KJF route myself on him. (His entire strategy hinges on the allies retaking land from Germany and hten transferring it to Japan in the hopes that Germany can build fast enough to fall back on itself and allow Japan in the back door.)

    Hey, I could use NoMercy’s help with my G strategy then!  He’s holding back on me; maybe he doesn’t want to give away his secrets!?

    Russia is not helpless, surely it can hold out on at least one of the two fronts until UK and US save the day.  Let’s get the discussion back to Russian strategy…


  • @goldenbearflyer:

    Hey, I could use NoMercy’s help with my G strategy then!  He’s holding back on me; maybe he doesn’t want to give away his secrets!?

    Russia is not helpless, surely it can hold out on at least one of the two fronts until UK and US save the day.  Let’s get the discussion back to Russian strategy…

    I think the only real German strategy is to get 'em good and drunk.

    I think the Russians should logically concentrate their forces in the west.  Why:

    1.  Territories in west worth more IPCs.
    2.  Can’t attack Asian coast (too vulnerable to Japanese transports), so advancing is very limited.
    3.  Dead zones in Ssinkiang and China (that is, if Russia captures a Japanese-held Ssinkiang, and Japan captures Ssinkiang back on Japan’s turn, then the Allies never get the IPCs for those territories, because Japan recaptures before the US can collect.
    4.  Russia needs to have a certain minimum number of infantry at West Russia, or Germany can go Kitchen Sink attack, after which Russia has to pull any forces that were directed towards Japan back to Moscow.
    5.  KJF plans usually involve multinational forces.  Multinational forces have an easier time defending than attacking.  So KJF plans are usually not particularly flexible on the offensive.
    6.  Africa is easy to reclaim with KGF.  Less so with KJF.
    7.  Russian girls are hawt.


  • 1.  Territories in west worth more IPCs.

    Oh, I did read the rest, but you could have stopped at 1.  The game really does come down to control of IPCs.  Until I actually pull off an Axix victory for myself (no really, I’m TOLD it can be done!), any plan for Germany that doesn’t involve taking IPCs from Russia early and often just doesn’t make sense to me mathematically.  Conversely, it makes sense to me to have Russia focus on Germany, yet play smart and opportunistically against Japan.  However, if the Allied consensus were to use KJF, then strategies like reinforcing Bury do make sense to me.

  • 2007 AAR League

    @goldenbearflyer:

    1.  Territories in west worth more IPCs.

    Oh, I did read the rest, but you could have stopped at 1.  The game really does come down to control of IPCs.  Until I actually pull off an Axix victory for myself (no really, I’m TOLD it can be done!), any plan for Germany that doesn’t involve taking IPCs from Russia early and often just doesn’t make sense to me mathematically.  Conversely, it makes sense to me to have Russia focus on Germany, yet play smart and opportunistically against Japan.  However, if the Allied consensus were to use KJF, then strategies like reinforcing Bury do make sense to me.

    I’ll just add a refinement to that - the game comes down to this: who has the bigger force. IMHO three ingredients play into this:

    1. Controlling / trading territory
    2. Killing enemy units
    3. Not getting your own units killed
    4. Positioning your units where they exert influence.

    Really they all play into each other - if you can’t keep the other guy from killing your units, you won’t be able to hold territory, etc… But I focus on not getting units killed. Why’s that?

    Because the # of units you can build is pretty fixed. Okay, if you hold one extra territory, you can build one more Inf maybe. There is way more flexibility though in how many units you kill and how many you lose.

    Suppose you capture that extra territory so that you can build that extra Inf. But, you lost 1 Inf taking that territory, had to leave another one there, where it will get killed on the re-take, plus you pulled some fighters off another battle that allowed the defender to keep fighting back one more round, maybe costing you a 1-2 extra Inf there too, and possibly leaving that other territory more vulnerable to counterattack as well. Now your opponent has choices, which is even worse.

    So what I look for at the end of a turn is how many IPCs did I kill, and how many did I lose, or leave where they will get killed. Dead units can’t help you.

    Almost as bad as a dead unit is an inactive unit. If you put your units where they may not get killed, but also don’t threaten to kill anything else, you may as well not have built them in the first place.

    Russia 1

    But, back on topic - thanks for the thoughts on Russia 1, NPB. WRus/Belo pretty much is what I’ve come to conclude as well, Although I think you could forego Belo and just make WRus stronger and take with fewer losses. Here’s my thoughts:

    • You can expect to lose 2 Inf in taking Belo, to kill 3 Inf and capture a 2 IPC territory. That’s a 5 IPC gain but you will lose the Inf and territory right away.
    • 3 extra Inf can really make WRus / Cau a lot safer against an aggressive German player
    • 2 Extra Fighters and 3 Extra Inf into WRus means that it will probably be taken and held with 7 Inf 1 Art 4 Arm rather than 3 Inf 1 Art 4 Arm. In short, you probably lose 1 extra inf, so that’s a 3 IPC loss that also offsets the Belo gain. It’s also much less fodder, and may force you to abandon Cau in order to protect your tanks from being wiped out. (That’s the experience I had last time)

    I like the 2/2/2 build or the 3/3 build - If Russia wants to make advances, it has to do it early before Germany has time to bring its superior production to the front. Once you’ve set the front, then you can take advantage of your 3 extra inf defending rather than attacking. I do like the extra ftr too, but it’s too pricey I think.

    Maybe I like the 3/3 build - 12 on offence and 15 on defence. the 2/2/2 build does - let’s see - 14 and 14. I guess that’s a bit better offensively, but you lose some mobility and some skew. But for an early push into Ukraine, 2/2/2 is prolly best.

    Let’s see - If you don’t take Belo, Russia has prolly 7/1/4 in WRus, plus in Cau:
    3 Inf from start
    2 Inf from  Kazak
    2 Inf 2 Art built

    Plus 2 ftrs, and 2 tanks in Moscow

    Available to attack Ukraine:
    14 Inf 3 Art 6 Arm 2 Ftrs

    Germany can stack Ukr w/:
    9 Inf 8 Arm (assuming 1 Inf stays in Belo) and 1-3 Ftrs?

    It depends on the fighters, but that gives Russia decent odds at taking Ukraine, although even with this there won’t be much Inf left

    Let’s see - if you take Belo, then:

    Attacking force (assuming Cau was left alone)
    10 Inf 3 Art 6 Arm 2 Ftrs
    Defending: Germany will have 5 fewer Inf (-3 from belo, plus assuming 2 sent from EE to Belo for re-take instead - this may be enough for Germany to consider Ukraine a dead zone) 4 Inf 8 Arm and 1-3 Ftrs

    Okay, that’s actually a little better. If Germany leaves 2 Ftrs, you’ll prolly take w/ 6 Arm -no fodder, not great, but you will have killed 8 Tanks and 2 Ftrs. If no Ftrs are left though you’ll take w/ 2 Inf 3 Art 6 Arm, considerably better.

    All right, so the Belo attack is helpful in preparing to take Ukraine.

  • Founder TripleA Admin

    Wow, there are a lot of these posts that should be translated to an article for the website. Newpaintbrush, do you want me to post your original thoughts here? Or update it to include some of the responses here? Or I could just link to this topic from the article.


  • Post original thoughts plz.

    thx!


  • @U-505:

    I would have to say that you should be careful about advancing heavy Russian forces too far into Europe. Drawing Russian ground units away from Russia is a trap I frequently like to set with Germany. It gets really had to resist trading a bunch of advanced territories with Germany because the prospect of Russia making 30+ IPC’s a turn puts dollar signs in the Russian player’s eyes. With the Axis outnumbering Russia by 5 to 1 with air units, trading a lot of territories and ground units with Russia almost always favors the Axis, even if the unit trade is 1 for 1. No matter how much Russia makes, Japan always outproduces them by up to twice as many units and that point will get hammered home when a large number of Russian forces are aimed at Germany and their reinforcements going west dry up instantly because they are desperately trying to hold back the flood of Japanese units coming at them. Japan has a tendence to look benign one turn and the next turn be all over the map, in force, and Russia can quickly get into trouble by being too aggressive toward Germany. Especially if the eastern defensive structure is poorly maintained.

    I completely agree.  I’ve used this “rope-a-dope” tactic a few times.  retreat with germany, attack with japan, and then usually around round 3-4 i counter attack with germany and squeeze russia out and hope that germany conquers russia so i can get the IPC’s.  I say thi cause usually the Allies have taken western Europe with this strategy at some point and I have to retake it.

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