German naval in the Med is a lot of fun so I usually take S. France with 4 Mechs. It can help Italy get to 20+ IPCs pretty quick. That gives the Axis some good options, including sending troops to Russia. Last time I played Germany, the battle for Moscow was close - Russia barely defeated my German stacks. Italy had just enough to follow-up the attack and won it with only 1 tank remaining!
Italian slow units don’t have much better places to go.
About those Northern Italians that are “too slow”:
On I6 they can do a suicide strike onto Moscow, where killing even 5 units can swing the battle heavily for the Germans on G7 (Note: G7 is a turn before the potential 12 east ruskies + 2 AA can get to Moscow) Moreover, on I5, the Italians can take Bryansk so German air can land on it to reinforce the stack on G6. If Russia wants to put enough units to dissuade the Italians from being able to take Bryansk, great! That’s a ton of Russians the Germans get to kill that won’t be in Moscow on the next turn.
The help Italy can provide on both I5 and I6 can be crucial.
So yes, the Northern Italians, even though they don’t move more than one territory per turn, can clearly help facilitate a victory in Russia, by letting Germany have a better than 50/50 chance of a G7 Moscow. If Moscow is too strong, probably due to British/American air reinforcements, the Italians stay and sit on the Axis stack to keep it safe while some German fast units break south for the Caucasus/Volgograd cash.
In short, I fundamentally disagree with you and your statement.
@cb4
4 mechs and surely some air ? I’ve gone two tanks and mechs w/no air. 4 mechs and air might be better but messes up my air positioning.
I like Italy take Southen France but i think it depends on who Yugoslavia gets and what the UK player does
As germany i like to give Yugo to the Italians so i try to kill 3-4 Yugo’s and retreat to Romania. If this succeeds i take Bulgaria during NCM with Germany and take the 4 infantry. Turn 2 i can attack Greece with Germany using 5 inf. and 3 tanks. This way Italy can take Yugo turn 1 with 2 inf and 1 tank from Albania and 1 tank from Nothern Italy.
If i kill all 5 in Yugo and take it with Germany then Italy gets Bulgaria and Italay can take Greece turn 2. Germany then gets Southern France turn 2 in most cases…
I never take Southern France als Germany turn 1. I need all my ground troops in France so i don’t lose too much untis taking it (i won’t send plans because of te AAA). Somtimes i take both Normandy and France turn 1.
Who takes Southern France (Ger/It) is also depending on what the UK does turn 1, in most cases: sz. 97 (Taranto), sz 96 and Tobruk. If the UK player takes out sz 97, 96 and Tobruk then i attack the French Navy in sz 93 with my fleet in 95 and my bomber. I also take 2 inf. from Southern Italy with my transport and drop them in Southern France with 2 inf. and 2 art. from Northern Italy. Depending on how strong the UK player is Africa, i can reinforce Africa turn 2 using my transport and landing my fighters in Lybia.
Sometimes if the UK does not attack Tobruk and Germany does not havo Yugo, i still take Southern France as well als Yugo with Italy. In this case i will send my fighters to Tobruk as well as the forces in Lybia. During G2 the Luftwaffe mops up any left over British ships in sz 97 and 96 and land planes in Tobruk. On It2 you can attack Alexandria from Tobruk. Take your fleet and your transport to sz 98 (you own the naval base and if sz 98 its empty you can bombard with your cruiser). If Egypt is empty or weak you can even take both Egypt and Alexandria using your transport and air in Egypt. This way you collect up to 2 NO’s for Italy on It 2. This way Italy is collecting at least 18 and up to 27 IPC’s turn 2.
If Italy takes Southern France you can still built a factory in Yugo or Greece as Germany. This way you can still help the Italians with troops in the middele East/Africa and you can build navy.
I think that it’s Germany’s job to help the Italians in the med early in the game. Italy can be helpfull to the Germans and the defence of the mainland if it collects 25+ IPC’s. The only way Italy can be rich is by NO’s so they need Germany’s help. Germany also has NO in Egypt and the Middele east. If the Brits buy a factory in Egypt and/or Persia it might be difficult but it’s worth to try. Also: as long as the Italians are threatning Africa and/or the middle east, Britain wil build Units in South Africa of in Persia or Egypt (using a new factory). This way they can’t defend London (Sealion) and can build up forces against Germany.
This strategy works perfect for me. I almost never send Italians into Russia except for Caucasus from the south:)
One game I played recently, Axis declined to take either Normandy or Southern France at all, which ended up being very significant later on as these factories couldn’t be used by the US or UK in the counter-invasion. It was an interesting trade-off, 5 IPC a turn sacrificed for ~5-6 turns, and in exchange those factories were useless to the Allies later on, which turned out to be fairly critical to the game’s outcome.
There are times where I see people not taking Normandy. I’ve tried a couple of times, too. It probably was slightly beneficial once, and the other time the Axis won but not because of that.
Not taking Southern France, though?
Southern France touches Northern Italy and is in easy striking range for the Italians to push out would-be invaders unless the landing force is pretty large. That and the Allies have to get through any hindrances on Gibraltar or a SZ 92 Italian DD block (assuming ANZAC didn’t fly a strat bomber over). I think not taking Southern France might be overly cautious, no? And it takes away Germany’s option of building in the Med. Even if Germany doesn’t exercise that ability in 9/10 games, it’s still nice to have it as an option?
Losing 2 IPCs/turn, okay. Losing a total of 5? That’s a pretty big deal.
edit-
And leaving 4 Frenchies around that can all throw 2’s on attack or defense is also possibly a pain, especially if they finagle their fighter into the mix somehow when the European Axis are spread thin (like on rounds 3 and 4).
Elk, was your game on this site? I’d like to see it if so.
It varies from game to game with me. However, in general I find it beneficial for Germany to take Southern France and for Italy to take Normandy. This allows me to use the factory to drop an Italian destroyer blocker following the UK’s turn, slowing down the US forces off Gibraltar.
Marsh
One game I played recently, Axis declined to take either Normandy or Southern France at all, which ended up being very significant later on as these factories couldn’t be used by the US or UK in the counter-invasion. It was an interesting trade-off, 5 IPC a turn sacrificed for ~5-6 turns, and in exchange those factories were useless to the Allies later on, which turned out to be fairly critical to the game’s outcome.
This is sounding interesting to me Sub.Elk.
Can you remember more details?
Did Ger player kill off the remaining Fra. Units with air?
Thank you for your answer upfront.
I played very poorly that game so I wasn’t inclined to remember the details all that well. Not saying it’s solid, just that I’ve seen it and in that one instance it worked out for Axis. I’m not a top expert on this map like some of the people here, still learning the tricks of the trade where G40 is concerned. But I thought I’d throw it out there to see if anyone else had experienced or tried it. Sure frustrated the hell out of me as Allies and messed up my US/UK invasion of Western Europe.
The reason why I am interested is simple.
While Germany took the Normandy area in WW II. to gain a quicker access into to Atl.
They were also concerned about a possible invasion possible historically.
As for G40 purpose, Normandy is not serving well for Ger. because the US will land there reenforced by UK and automatically have a base with an IC on it.
Germany is forced to fight over it sooner or later and is almost never using the Normandy as SS pen tool.
Germany in my game conquer Normandy on G2 but is not adding that much weight into my Economics.
I have to try this and see how this works out.
I say Germany always because Germany is your powerhouse as far as income, and the more income you can bring in for Germany the better chance you have of taking Russia since you can spend more, while I do like to bring an Italian Force into Russia this force is there to support the German force, take the first hits in counter attacks and keep my German units around much longer, Southern France also allows the Germans to build their own fleet to transport units to africa which can give you a big boost and can usually bring an Axis victory in the Med.
