15L DutchmanD (axis) vs variance (allies +3WB) GAME 1

[boldfresh]

Time stamps.  Whatever the first valid roll was stands.

[variance]

Sorry, but the first set of dice are what count.  You rolled 6 dice and got 1 hit not 5.  So I am left with a fighter.  If you want to roll a third round you can, but the first die rolled for my fighters (I was short 1 not 4) was a 2.  So we can leave the fighter or you can roll a third round with your remaining bombers and kill it but then you lose a bomber because it already got a hit.  Up to you.

[dutchmand]

The “first set” of dice was the ten hits, that was yesterday. Valid roll.  The next valid roll would be your defensive fire.  Then, after I select my casualties, I choose to continue the attack or withdraw. Any roll before that is invalid.

There is no “first set” that counts today until after you rolled your defensive fire.

That roll you saw in your email was a re-roll of round 1 from a reconstructed map that I did, as I had to reconstruct the TripleA map to the right spot, because the map where we were for the last day was closed and I did not have a save, I was going to proceed through the battle and edit, but the first roll that was going to be VALID roll was going to be your defensive roll in round 1, which we both know was not rolled as yet.  However, as I rolled the INVALID German round 1 (invalid because it had already been rolled yesterday, and we already discussed the losses from it), I realized that I did not have the correct units for the battle, it was missing 4 bombers.  At the same time I realized that fact, I also realized that we actually did have a save of the battle, the one I had posted on the site from the manual post-save feature, so I then dl’d that map and we proceeded, finally with the round 1 defensive roll, which still had not been rolled.

So, the roll that you saw in the Marti email was invalid for 3 separate reasons:
1. It proceeded the defensive roll;
2. It was a re-roll of round 1, which had already been validly rolled; and
3. The correct units were not in the roll, as it was missing 4 bombers.

And, an invalid round 2 roll for the reasons above AND
4. If you are claiming that is a 2nd round roll, it is invalid because it preceded my selection of casualties from you defensive fire that had not been rolled.

[dutchmand]

There is no disagreement between us that the manual-post map that I posted yesterday is the valid map for G9, correct?  If that is the case, then why would you argue that the dice in the first email this morning were valid, when they clearly did not come from that map?

[variance]

OK its not worth arguing about.  Its a matter of 1 bomber or fighter either way.  Go ahead and post it and I will do Russia

[dutchmand]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 9

Research Technology - Germans

Purchase Units - Germans
            Germans buy 4 armour, 1 destroyer, 4 infantry and 6 mech_infantrys; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 0 techTokens;

Combat Move - Germans
            1 infantry moved from Vologda to Samara
            3 tactical_bombers moved from Novgorod to Samara
            1 infantry moved from Bryansk to Tambov
            1 infantry moved from Bryansk to Tambov
            1 artillery moved from Bryansk to Tambov
            1 mech_infantry moved from Rostov to Caucasus
            4 armour and 4 mech_infantrys moved from Rostov to Volgograd
            2 bombers and 4 fighters moved from Ukraine to Greece
            3 bombers moved from Bryansk to Greece
            1 mech_infantry moved from Slovakia Hungary to Yugoslavia
            2 mech_infantrys moved from Southern Italy to Yugoslavia
            2 bombers moved from Western Germany to Greece

Airborne Attack Move - Germans
            2 infantry moved from Novgorod to Samara
            1 infantry moved from Western Germany to Yugoslavia
            2 infantry moved from Southern Italy to Yugoslavia

Combat - Germans
            Battle in Volgograd
                Germans attack with 4 armour and 4 mech_infantrys
                Russians defend with 3 armour and 1 factory_minor
                    Germans roll dice for 4 armour and 4 mech_infantrys in Volgograd, round 2 :  4/8 hits
                    Russians roll dice for 3 armour in Volgograd, round 2 :  1/3 hits
                    3 armour owned by the Russians and 1 mech_infantry owned by the Germans lost in Volgograd
                Germans win, taking Volgograd from Russians with 4 armour and 3 mech_infantrys remaining. Battle score for attacker is 14
                Casualties for Germans: 1 mech_infantry
                Casualties for Russians: 3 armour
            Battle in Tambov
                Germans attack with 1 artillery and 2 infantry
                Russians defend with 1 artillery
                    Germans roll dice for 1 artillery and 2 infantry in Tambov, round 2 :  1/3 hits
                    Russians roll dice for 1 artillery in Tambov, round 2 :  0/1 hits
                    1 artillery owned by the Russians lost in Tambov
                Germans win, taking Tambov from Russians with 1 artillery and 2 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 4
                Casualties for Russians: 1 artillery
            Battle in Yugoslavia
                Germans attack with 3 infantry and 3 mech_infantrys
                Americans defend with 2 infantry
                    Germans roll dice for 3 infantry and 3 mech_infantrys in Yugoslavia, round 2 :  2/6 hits
                    Americans roll dice for 2 infantry in Yugoslavia, round 2 :  0/2 hits
                    2 infantry owned by the Americans lost in Yugoslavia
                Germans win, taking Yugoslavia from Americans with 3 infantry and 3 mech_infantrys remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6
                Casualties for Americans: 2 infantry
            Battle in Caucasus
                Germans attack with 1 mech_infantry
                Russians defend with 1 aaGun
                    1 aaGun owned by the Russians lost in Caucasus
                Germans win, taking Caucasus from Russians with 1 mech_infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 5
                Casualties for Russians: 1 aaGun
            Battle in Samara
                Germans attack with 3 infantry and 3 tactical_bombers
                Russians defend with 1 aaGun and 5 infantry
                    AA fire in Samara :  0/3 hits
                    Germans roll dice for 3 infantry and 3 tactical_bombers in Samara, round 2 :  1/6 hits
                    Russians roll dice for 1 aaGun and 5 infantry in Samara, round 2 :  2/5 hits
                    2 infantry owned by the Germans and 1 aaGun owned by the Russians lost in Samara
                    Germans roll dice for 1 infantry and 3 tactical_bombers in Samara, round 3 :  2/4 hits
                    Russians roll dice for 5 infantry in Samara, round 3 :  1/5 hits
                    2 infantry owned by the Russians and 1 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Samara
                retreated to Samara
                Russians win with 3 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 2
                Casualties for Germans: 3 infantry
                Casualties for Russians: 1 aaGun and 2 infantry
            Battle in Greece
                Germans attack with 7 bombers and 4 fighters
                British defend with 1 armour, 1 artillery, 5 fighters, 2 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber; Americans defend with 1 airfield, 1 bomber, 1 factory_minor and 1 fighter
                    Germans roll dice for 7 bombers and 4 fighters in Greece, round 2 :  10/11 hits
                    Americans roll dice for 1 armour, 1 artillery, 1 bomber, 6 fighters, 2 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber in Greece, round 2 :  5/12 hits
                    2 infantry owned by the British, 1 tactical_bomber owned by the British, 1 armour owned by the British, 1 bomber owned by the Germans, 1 artillery owned by the British, 4 fighters owned by the British, 1 bomber owned by the Americans and 4 fighters owned by the Germans lost in Greece
                    Germans roll dice for 6 bombers in Greece, round 3 :  5/6 hits
                    Americans roll dice for 2 fighters in Greece, round 3 :  2/2 hits
                    1 fighter owned by the Americans, 2 bombers owned by the Germans and 1 fighter owned by the British lost in Greece
                Germans win with 4 bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 23
                Casualties for Germans: 3 bombers and 4 fighters
                Casualties for British: 1 armour, 1 artillery, 5 fighters, 2 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber
                Casualties for Americans: 1 bomber and 1 fighter

Non Combat Move - Germans
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Germans from Yugoslavia: 3 infantry and 1 mech_infantry
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
            3 tactical_bombers moved from Samara to Bryansk
            1 mech_infantry moved from Bryansk to Volgograd
            4 bombers moved from Greece to Southern Italy
            1 mech_infantry moved from Western Ukraine to Romania
            1 mech_infantry moved from Western Ukraine to Romania
            1 mech_infantry moved from Western Ukraine to Romania
            1 armour moved from Ukraine to Romania
            1 infantry moved from Smolensk to Vologda
            1 infantry moved from Bryansk to Smolensk
            1 artillery moved from Finland to 115 Sea Zone
            1 artillery and 1 transport moved from 115 Sea Zone to 112 Sea Zone
            1 submarine moved from 109 Sea Zone to 112 Sea Zone
            1 artillery moved from 112 Sea Zone to Western Germany
            1 mech_infantry moved from Western Ukraine to Romania
            1 armour moved from Ukraine to Volgograd
            1 mech_infantry moved from Bryansk to Volgograd
            1 mech_infantry moved from Western Ukraine to Bryansk
            1 armour moved from Ukraine to Bryansk
            1 mech_infantry moved from Western Germany to Yugoslavia

Place Units - Germans
            1 armour and 2 infantry placed in Novgorod
            2 infantry placed in Western Germany
            1 mech_infantry placed in Western Germany
            3 armour placed in Ukraine
            5 mech_infantrys placed in Germany
            1 destroyer placed in 112 Sea Zone

Turn Complete - Germans
            Total Cost from Convoy Blockades: 5
                Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 125 Sea Zone. Rolls: 4,2
                Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 93 Sea Zone. Rolls: 6,5
                Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 97 Sea Zone. Rolls: 1,1,3,1,5,3,4,6,6,4,3,2,2
                Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 105 Sea Zone. Rolls: 6,1
            Germans collect 63 PUs (5 lost to blockades); end with 63 PUs total
            Trigger Germans 5 Swedish Iron Ore: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 68 PUs
            Objective Germans 3 Control Caucasus: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 73 PUs
            Objective Germans 2 Control Novgorod Or Volgograd Or Russia: Germans met a national objective for an additional 10 PUs; end with 83 PUs
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Russians from Samara: 1 infantry
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode

[variance]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 9

Purchase Units - Russians
            Russians buy nothing; Remaining resources: 14 PUs;

Combat Move - Russians
            1 armour and 3 mech_infantrys moved from Russia to Novosibirsk
                  Russians take Novosibirsk from Germans
            1 fighter and 1 infantry moved from Russia to Vologda
            1 infantry moved from Samara to Kazakhstan

Combat - Russians
            Battle in Vologda
                Russians attack with 1 fighter and 1 infantry
                Germans defend with 1 infantry
                Russians win with 1 fighter remaining. Battle score for attacker is 0
                Casualties for Germans: 1 infantry
                Casualties for Russians: 1 infantry

Non Combat Move - Russians
            1 fighter moved from Vologda to Russia

Turn Complete - Russians
            Russians collect 6 PUs; end with 20 PUs total
            Russians collect 4 PUs from War Bonds; end with 24 PUs total

[variance]

Just to be clear, I am certain you are wrong.

[boldfresh]

as you said, it’s the difference of one aircraft.  dutch, why don’t you just scrap an aircraft in order to eliminate all doubt in his mind.  :-o

[dutchmand]

For the sake of keeping this game in good spirits, I’ll remove a bomber from S Italy.

But, I think it is clear that that roll did not come from the previously posted map, so I fail to see why it should be regarded, whether the dice were good or bad for the rolling party.  It wasn’t a valid roll. No way would I be on here arguing for it counting had it been an awesome roll of 5 or 6 hits, because it is simple, not valid is not valid.

The rules are clear that is was not a valid roll, but even stepping away from that and just looking at general gamesmanship: Maybe you have different experience, but in a face to face game, if your opponent absent-mindedly or unintentionally rolled for the 2nd round, before the defender rolled his dice for the 1st round, you would not count those dice, no matter how good or bad they were.  You can’t be rolling and counting 2nd round dice before the first round dice are rolled. Ever.

[dutchmand]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 9

Purchase Units - Japanese
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Germans from Southern Italy: 1 bomber
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
            Japanese buy 2 carriers, 3 destroyers and 5 mech_infantrys; Remaining resources: 0 SuicideAttackTokens; 0 PUs; 0 techTokens;

Combat Move - Japanese
            1 armour moved from Kwangsi to Hunan
                  Japanese take Hunan from Chinese
            1 armour moved from Hunan to Yunnan
                  Japanese take Yunnan from Chinese
            1 infantry moved from Chahar to Hopei
                  Japanese take Hopei from Chinese
            1 infantry moved from Anhwe to Kweichow
                  Japanese take Kweichow from Chinese
            1 destroyer moved from 42 Sea Zone to 62 Sea Zone
            1 fighter moved from Iraq to 99 Sea Zone
            2 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Bulgaria to Albania

Combat - Japanese
            Battle in 99 Sea Zone
                Japanese attack with 1 fighter
                British defend with 1 transport
                    1 transport owned by the British lost in 99 Sea Zone
                Japanese win with 1 fighter remaining. Battle score for attacker is 7
                Casualties for British: 1 transport
            Battle in 62 Sea Zone
                Japanese attack with 1 destroyer
                ANZAC defend with 1 destroyer and 2 transports
                    Japanese roll dice for 1 destroyer in 62 Sea Zone, round 2 :  1/1 hits
                    ANZAC roll dice for 1 destroyer and 2 transports in 62 Sea Zone, round 2 :  0/1 hits
                    1 destroyer owned by the ANZAC lost in 62 Sea Zone
                    2 transports owned by the ANZAC lost in 62 Sea Zone
                Japanese win, taking 62 Sea Zone from Neutral with 1 destroyer remaining. Battle score for attacker is 22
                Casualties for ANZAC: 1 destroyer and 2 transports
            Battle in Albania
                Japanese attack with 2 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber
                Americans defend with 2 infantry
                    Japanese roll dice for 2 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber in Albania, round 2 :  2/3 hits
                    Americans roll dice for 2 infantry in Albania, round 2 :  1/2 hits
                    2 infantry owned by the Americans and 1 fighter owned by the Japanese lost in Albania
                Japanese win with 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is -4
                Casualties for Japanese: 1 fighter
                Casualties for Americans: 2 infantry

Non Combat Move - Japanese
            1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Albania to Southern Italy
            1 battleship, 1 destroyer, 2 submarines and 3 transports moved from 36 Sea Zone to 6 Sea Zone
            1 aaGun and 1 infantry moved from Manchuria to Jehol
            1 infantry moved from Shantung to Anhwe
            1 infantry moved from Kiangsu to Anhwe
            1 mech_infantry moved from Kwangsi to Anhwe
            1 mech_infantry moved from French Indo China to Yunnan
            2 submarines moved from 19 Sea Zone to 6 Sea Zone
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Japan to 6 Sea Zone
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Manchuria to 6 Sea Zone
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Manchuria to 6 Sea Zone
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Manchuria to 6 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from Amur to Manchuria
            1 infantry moved from Evenkiyskiy to Timguska
            1 fighter moved from Iraq to India
            1 fighter moved from Iraq to India
            1 tactical_bomber moved from Manchuria to Shan State
            1 bomber moved from Shan State to Iraq
            1 fighter moved from 99 Sea Zone to Iraq

Place Units - Japanese
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Japanese from Japan: 6 infantry
            EDIT: Adding units owned by Japanese to Korea: 6 infantry
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
            2 carriers and 1 destroyer placed in 6 Sea Zone
            1 destroyer placed in 39 Sea Zone
            2 mech_infantrys placed in India
            3 mech_infantrys placed in French Indo China
            1 destroyer placed in 6 Sea Zone

Turn Complete - Japanese
            Japanese collect 72 PUs; end with 72 PUs total
            Objective Japanese 3 Control Honolulu Or Sydney Or Calcutta Or Western United States: Japanese met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 77 PUs
            Objective Japanese 4 Control Dutch East Indies: Japanese met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 82 PUs

[variance]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 9

Purchase Units - Chinese
            Trigger Chinese Loses Burma Road: Chinese has their production frontier changed to: productionChinese_Burma_Road_Closed
            Chinese buy 3 infantry; Remaining resources: 1 PUs;

Combat Move - Chinese
            1 infantry moved from Suiyuyan to Chahar
                  Chinese take Chahar from Japanese
            3 infantry moved from Suiyuyan to Hopei
            3 infantry moved from Shensi to Kweichow

Combat - Chinese
            Battle in Hopei
                Chinese attack with 3 infantry
                Japanese defend with 1 infantry
                Chinese win, taking Hopei from Japanese with 3 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
                Casualties for Japanese: 1 infantry
            Battle in Kweichow
                Chinese attack with 3 infantry
                Japanese defend with 1 infantry
                Chinese win, taking Kweichow from Japanese with 3 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
                Casualties for Japanese: 1 infantry

Non Combat Move - Chinese
            1 infantry moved from Kansu to Shensi

Place Units - Chinese
            3 infantry placed in Shensi

Turn Complete - Chinese
            Chinese collect 9 PUs; end with 10 PUs total

[variance]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 9

Purchase Units - British
            British repair damage of 4x harbour; Remaining resources: 29 PUs;
            British buy 1 artillery, 1 fighter, 1 infantry and 3 mech_infantrys; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - British
            2 submarines moved from 80 Sea Zone to 39 Sea Zone

Combat - British
            Japanese scrambles 2 units out of India to defend against the attack in 39 Sea Zone
            Battle in 39 Sea Zone
                British attack with 2 submarines
                Japanese defend with 1 destroyer and 2 fighters
                Japanese win with 1 destroyer and 2 fighters remaining. Battle score for attacker is -12
                Casualties for British: 2 submarines
            Moving scrambled unit from 39 Sea Zone back to originating territory: India
            Moving scrambled unit from 39 Sea Zone back to originating territory: India

Non Combat Move - British
            1 destroyer and 1 transport moved from 97 Sea Zone to 98 Sea Zone
            1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Egypt to 98 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from Egypt to 98 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from Trans-Jordan to 98 Sea Zone
            1 armour and 1 artillery moved from Trans-Jordan to 98 Sea Zone
            2 mech_infantrys moved from Belgian Congo to Egypt
            3 mech_infantrys moved from Union of South Africa to Belgian Congo
            1 destroyer and 1 submarine moved from 106 Sea Zone to 109 Sea Zone
            1 battleship moved from 25 Sea Zone to 26 Sea Zone

Place Units - British
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
            1 artillery, 1 fighter and 1 infantry placed in Egypt
            3 mech_infantrys placed in Union of South Africa

Turn Complete - British
            British collect 30 PUs; end with 30 PUs total
            British collect 2 PUs from War Bonds; end with 32 PUs total

Turn Complete - UK_Pacific

[variance]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 9

Purchase Units - British
            British repair damage of 4x harbour; Remaining resources: 29 PUs;
            British buy 1 artillery, 1 fighter, 1 infantry and 3 mech_infantrys; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - British
            2 submarines moved from 80 Sea Zone to 39 Sea Zone

Combat - British
            Japanese scrambles 2 units out of India to defend against the attack in 39 Sea Zone
            Battle in 39 Sea Zone
                British attack with 2 submarines
                Japanese defend with 1 destroyer and 2 fighters
                Japanese win with 1 destroyer and 2 fighters remaining. Battle score for attacker is -12
                Casualties for British: 2 submarines
            Moving scrambled unit from 39 Sea Zone back to originating territory: India
            Moving scrambled unit from 39 Sea Zone back to originating territory: India

Non Combat Move - British
            1 destroyer and 1 transport moved from 97 Sea Zone to 98 Sea Zone
            1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Egypt to 98 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from Egypt to 98 Sea Zone
            1 infantry moved from Trans-Jordan to 98 Sea Zone
            1 armour and 1 artillery moved from Trans-Jordan to 98 Sea Zone
            2 mech_infantrys moved from Belgian Congo to Egypt
            3 mech_infantrys moved from Union of South Africa to Belgian Congo
            1 destroyer and 1 submarine moved from 106 Sea Zone to 109 Sea Zone
            1 battleship moved from 25 Sea Zone to 26 Sea Zone

Place Units - British
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
            1 artillery, 1 fighter and 1 infantry placed in Egypt
            3 mech_infantrys placed in Union of South Africa

Turn Complete - British
            British collect 30 PUs; end with 30 PUs total
            British collect 2 PUs from War Bonds; end with 32 PUs total

Turn Complete - UK_Pacific

[dutchmand]

Sorry, been a tough past week.

Can you clarify what troops are on what transports in zone 98 please?

[boldfresh]

@DutchmanD:

Sorry, been a tough past week.

Can you clarify what troops are on what transports in zone 98 please?

there’s a trick to do this - go into edit mode and try to delete the transports and troops and it will show you.

[dutchmand]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.9

Game History

Round: 9

Purchase Units - Italians
            Italians buy 2 infantry; Remaining resources: 2 PUs;

Combat Move - Italians
            1 infantry moved from Iraq to Syria
            3 fighters moved from Iraq to Syria

Combat - Italians
            Battle in Syria
                Italians attack with 3 fighters and 1 infantry
                French defend with 1 airfield and 1 infantry
                    Italians roll dice for 3 fighters and 1 infantry in Syria, round 2 :  2/4 hits
                    French roll dice for 1 infantry in Syria, round 2 :  1/1 hits
                    1 infantry owned by the French and 1 infantry owned by the Italians lost in Syria
                Italians win with 3 fighters remaining. Battle score for attacker is 0
                Casualties for French: 1 infantry
                Casualties for Italians: 1 infantry

Non Combat Move - Italians
            3 fighters moved from Syria to Iraq

Place Units - Italians
            2 infantry placed in Iraq

Turn Complete - Italians
            Total Cost from Convoy Blockades: 7
                Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 97 Sea Zone. Rolls: 2,1,1,3,2,2
            Italians collect 4 PUs (7 lost to blockades); end with 6 PUs total
            Objective Italians 4 Control Iraq Or Persia Or Northwest Persia: Italians met a national objective for an additional 6 PUs; end with 12 PUs

[dutchmand]

@Boldfresh:

@DutchmanD:

Sorry, been a tough past week.

Can you clarify what troops are on what transports in zone 98 please?

there’s a trick to do this - go into edit mode and try to delete the transports and troops and it will show you.

Tried, not seeing it.  Just says must delete transport…

[dutchmand]

OK, now I see it. inf, art on the UK tnp. the other 4 uk units are on 2 of the 3 US tnps.

[variance]

yeah I kind of messed that up