What are some good Russian strategies?


  • Fox- you’re getting alot of different advice here, and even though it’s all quite different they’re all good ideas. There’s no right way to do it, but there are some ways that are better than others. Playtesting will be your best route and the most fun.

    Fiend- it’s good to have someone finally respond positively to the Ukraine move. Killing the German Fighter is huge in the long term. Think of it this way- what’s the value, over 10-15 turns (or more), of an extra German Fighter parked defensively in France, S Europe, or Germany? One or two more Infantry will be needed to make up the defensive value- Infantry that are ALWAYS needed on the front with Russia. How about on offense- how much value can you place on that extra 3 pips on the Russian front if you’re engaged in trading battles? Add it up- over a long game that extra Fighter will hit something how many times? 5, 10, 15? That’s alot of battles that are over just a little quicker, meaning a chance that a few less German Infantry are hit. Fighters are also a deterrent for the allies when it comes to how they plan their naval moves. Taking out the Ukraine also puts some strain on Germany’s first turn, as the other battles get a little shakier, and now Germany also has to counter it, making a northern thrust or E Europe stack just a little weaker. Getting the initiative is a huge factor. As anyone who has played deep into games knows, quite often the difference in a game can boil down to having a few more Infantry at the right time.

    As to Buryatia- I agree completely that losing 6 Russian Infantry is painful, but most of the time the Japanese go after Hawaii and China. It is absolutely much more safe to pull back, but I never do it personally. I agree, however- conserve Russian Infantry at almost all costs.


  • My general advice for Russia is to always try to reduce the number of infantries on the German and Japan frontline. Strafe the territory until the inf is gone then retreat. Moving infantry from the production centers to the frontline takes a long time for Germany and an even longer time for Japan, and without inf, all attack cost a lot of money. There’s no greater pleasure than trading inf for tanks or fighters :).

    For this reason, I always attack Bellorussia and West Russia on the first turn. Bello is easier to take (strafe) than Ukraine and it reduces the amount of inf by the same amount. Even though I agree with 88 that one less fighter on G1 is good, I think its’ not worth loosing 2 armor, 3 inf and 1 art to do so. Russia have so little offensive power that loosing 2 offensive pieces on a total of 6 (4 tanks and 2 fig) is too much.

    So I always try to have a big pile in West Russia and I either trade territories with Germany with little inf like AAfiend said or I kill most infantries aproaching my the frontline then retreat to a big stack.


  • Did I mention that it’s more than just a Fighter… it’s also an Artillery and an Armor killed. Also the Ukraine is worth 3 IPCs ( 29 IPCs sounds like 8 Inf and an Arm on R2).

    With an aggressive Russian purchase of 3 Inf and 3 Arm on R1, you end up with 5 Armor total on the board- not bad. If you go with a more conservative 5 Inf/ Art/ Arm you still have some teeth and a little more bulk. If you go 8 Inf you shouldn’t try to take the Ukraine at all as you won’t have enough offense left on the board.

    I respect the Belorussia move- it’s solid- I just think there’s more of a long term gain for the allies when the Ukraine is taken.


  • How good (for lack of a better word) of a move is it to, let’s say, take the territory, but leave one guy behind and retreat the rest of your forces, so that you can rebuilt your stack and on the enxt move, attack with an even bigger stack?  Is that an acceptable move?


  • Fox,

    The annoying answer is that…it depends. What are you going to take the territory with if you win? If you take it with a lot of troops that will die on a counter, then it would be silly to take it. If you take and can withstand a counter, then go for it. Typically germany will only have 1-2 inf on their frontline, unless they are moving in bulk. If you can take out that bulk, then the move you suggested is great. If you can’t, but it is weak on offense, then just sit tight and attack what you can.

    Be careful about trying to strafe too much (the term “strafe” is a common term for what you are suggesting), as if you take something and are vulnerable to a counter, you could well have screwed yourself out of a game.

    88,

    I forgot about the pearl thing. Honestly I have only been playing the ‘pact of steel’ variant in triplea, and while most of the concepts are applicable to revised, the manchuria stack is a discrepancy. There is no ‘pearl harbor’ option in ‘pact of steel’, so creaming manchuria is a simple decision to make. My bad, should have paid more attention to this difference.

    I definitely like the offensive purchase thrown in with the ukraine attack. I don’t know how applicable it is to revised, but I sometimes purchase 1 fig, 1 arm, 1 art, 2 inf on the first round. It hurts until you stabilize your stacks against germany because you are obviously a bit weak, but in the long run that extra fighter is extremely valuable. Still, the safe route for a new player is definitely a big inf stack, inf/art, or inf/tank.


  • Well, after playing a lenthy game, my friends and I came to the conclusion that, as Russia, you have to play an aggressive first turn.  For me, I went full throttle into the Ukraine and wiped it out, then took West Russia as well.  From there on out, I usually would either create two stacks in two adjacent areas, or just leave one or two cannon fodder pieces behind, while I regrouped in the areas behind.  By doing this, I could hit with a bigger stack the next time around and then keep that area with assurance.  So a word of advice to all, even though everyone knows this: take the Ukraine with all major hardware.  It takes out the fighter, and, in a way, shakes the German player’s resolve, forcing them to make decisions.


  • Fox- it actually isn’t that obvious to people to take out the Ukraine. Alot of people that post here take out Belorussia and W Russia on R1 instead, and I’ve been trying to get conversation going about the Ukraine move, but I’ve met some resistance to it.

    What you said sums it up- Germany has more difficult decisions to make, and a few less pieces to make them with. The battles become just a little less sure without the extra Armor and Fighter, and the Ukraine has to be retaken, resulting in a smaller stack in either the Ukraine, Karelia or in E Europe. I always plan my German move expecting to have only 5 Fighters, and when I have 6 I’m freakin’ happy.

    An aggressive Russian purchase of 3 Inf 3 Arm also gives Russia the opportunity- for a round or two only- to have a large enough threat to make Germany hesitant to come forward. It gains the initiative for Russia on the front for a short time which is a precious commodity.

    I think the issue is that most people cringe at the idea of using up the Artillery and several Armor it’ll take for Russia to kill the Ukraine, but I completely believe that it’s worth it in the long run.


  • The one thing about ukraine is that it is a riskier battle. Well, it is certainly riskier than west russia in terms of dice. Belorussia is a bit closer, but the end result if you did west russia/belorussia and belorussia went south was that it was only 3 inf. Ukraine is not a battle that is always won, though it usually is. Still, even in LowLuck it can go wrong. I would suggest that anyone who is planning to take Ukraine takes a look at the board with ukraine held with 1 arm, 1 fig, and the russian 3 inf, art, 2 arm dead, and see what they will do. If you cannot come up with something you feel comfortable with doing at that point, then I would not suggest you do ukraine, because it is a very real possibility. I still think it’s worth it, but when it goes south it does set russia back moreso than the west russia/belorussia move. I’d say just be aware of the consequences, and think of something to do when the consequences are poor, because it will happen.


  • The one thing about ukraine is that it is a riskier battle. Well, it is certainly riskier than west russia in terms of dice.

    Mathematically, a full Ukraine attack isn’t that far off from a full West Russia attack (96% for Ukraine, 99% for West Russia). The difference however is that a full Ukraine attack leaves your West Russia attack at about 80%, and anything less than a full Ukraine attack begins to get risky. Also, the Ukraine attack usually exposes your tanks.


  • Hmmm, I’m not so sure about that trihero. If I attack ukraine with…

    3 inf, 1 art, 2 arm, 2 figs

    then that leaves for west russia…

    9 inf, 1 art, 2 arm. I guess you are talking about a full ukraine attack, so that’d be 3 arm in ukraine and 1 arm in west russia. So, with 9 inf, 1 arm, 1 art in west russia, you are looking at as you say about a 99% chance, don’t you? I mean, 9 inf, 1 arm, 1 art vs. 3 inf, 1 art, 1 arm? Then in ukraine you have 3 inf, 1 art, 3 arm, 2 figs vs. 3 inf, 1 art, 1 arm, 1 fig. You’ll say that’s about 96%. Attacking without that extra armor still gives you a greater than 80% chance. I very often keep the armor back and use it against west russia instead, because as you say, you will lose armor in a counter. Maybe my odds for west russia while doing the ukraine attack are very off for some reason…

    With the extra armor in west russia that is a sure win, so you have about a 20% failure rate in ukraine. It’s probably more than that if don’t want to risk your fighters at all. I usually play lowluck so ukraine is always valid percentage-wise, so I guess I should have taken that into account.

    I still think the move is valid though, even with “only” a 80% success rate. The question is, do you think it would be legitimate if you were guaranteed to take out ukraine and in return lose 2 armor? I can see that losing 3 would be worse news, but I am willing to trade 2 arm, 1 art 3 inf for 3 inf, 1 art, 1 arm, 1 fig. I would not be willing to trade 3 arm for that same amount as russia.


  • I’m not sure if Ukraine is a good attack. I was just saying that if you do a full Ukraine attack mathematically you have a 96% chance to win, but then you leave West Russia with about 80% chance with the rest of your forces.


  • Are you sure that 9 inf, 1 arm, 1 art vs. 3 inf, 1 art, 1 arm is a 80% chance? I am pretty sure it is not…


  • Whoops sorry. I was thinking about something else, doing a triple attack (belo/west/ukraine). If you do a triple attack some of those chances are 80%, you’re right 9 inf 1 arm 1 art is 99%.

    I’m on the fence about the ukraine attack. I’ve gone from extremely enthusiastic to lukewarm on it. It does get rid of a lot of German gear, but it exposes your tanks. Sometimes Germany can afford the effort to take out those tanks, and sometimes not.


  • I would definitely expect the germans to counter the tanks, to me it is completely worth it for germany to do so. However, I estimate the trade of 2 russian armor, 1 artillery, 3 inf to be well worth 1 german armor, 1 art, 1 fig, 3 inf. I could see how it may not be worth it for some though. I just hate german figs.


  • i like to strafe ukraine, 3 inf, i art and three armor, if first round is good and german roll is weak, hit again if your infantry is toast pull back for next round.  it does leave them that extra fighter so it is a real tough call either way. i have tended to pull back rather than lose 3 tanks but i might try the other next time to see what kind of footing it leaves germany.  its just hard to sacrifice those tanks!


  • If you are going to hit it… kill it.

    The point of Ukraine over someplace safer (like Belorussia) is killing the FIG, that means taking Ukraine.
    Also, by taking Ukraine, yes you sacrifice armor (that you WILL miss later), but you also protect your West Russia Stack.  Strafing Ukraine and NOT doing Belorussia means that Germany can bring INF from Bel and survivors from Ukraine to attack West Russia, as well as AF and ARM from Eastern and Balkans.  By taking EITHER Ukraine of Bel, you reduce the INF force he can use, and make a G1 strike on West Russia FAR too costly to consider… meaning Russia can advance AGAIN in R2… and do so safely.

    Go hard or go home.


  • Another risk with Ukraine is it leaves Caucuses less well defended.  Germany can get there with Amphib forces, BB, and AF.


  • very true switch, you can lose your complex g1 if not careful but i don’t think it would be worth it to germany due to the amount of air he would lose.  i do like the idea of making the army in ukraine disappear but if you go 3 inf 3 armor you don’t have a lot of backup for r2 .

    the thing i like about russia is they set the tone, the last game i played they went steady and challenged germany to devote themselves to me, giving the atlantic and africa to my team.  good thing they landed in europe because he was knocking on the caucasus heavy, i got in one good strafe and then uk landed up north drawing his fire.  after that is was the slow march to berlin.


  • Just watch the back door…
    You have enough forces (if you use them well) to REALLY slow Japan down in their march on you… Yakut, Sinkiang and Perisa have to be your hard points.  And Persia means pulling forces from Caucuses to head to defense duty in the south… another reason to start stacking Cuacuses early…


  • last game i staged in novo, when the japs went north i smacked them then pulled back.  when they showed up in the center i smacked them again….and pulled back.  i think as russia you have to not get too excited about pushing back and continue to lobby your allies!

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