• '17 '16

    @Black_Elk:

    This is the feedback I like to hear. On principle, I am not at all opposed to ideas like the following.

    New Zealand at 2
    E. Australia at 3
    Hawaii at 3

    So long as we follow the general rule: all territories should have a minimum value of 1, and new money should be in contested areas rather wherever possible.

    I think there is something to be said for having nice round numbers. So using the totals at either 40 or 50 for each nation at the start. Round numbers carry with them a kind of intuitive force in the mind of the player, and help to establish the relative strength of each Nation. I would prefer not to alter the capital production if it can be avoided, but where IPCs can be shifted out of the core to more interesting locations I think it can work.

    The value of production between 1-3 is should be considered flexible and less strict, since these territories are less than/equal to the replacement cost only a single infantry unit. Territories which include starting factories and guns should be see as the industrial core.

    Thanks.
    I agree on the principle also.
    However, the more IPCs on the board, the longer the game.

    Russians will have a lot more of new opportunities, it will be funnier to play them.

    IDK for round numbers.
    Maybe you should keep the initial ratio of IPCs between each powers while raising up the sums.
    Russia 24 + Germany 41 + UK 31 + Japan 30 + USA 42 = 168 IPCs.

    Russia = 14.3%
    Germany = 24.4%
    UK = 18.5%
    Japan = 17.9%
    USA = 25%
    Sum = 100.1%
    VS:
    Russia 40 = 18.2%
    Germany 50 = 22.7%
    UK 40 = 18.2%
    Japan 40 = 18.2%
    USA 50 = 22.7%
    = 220 IPCs

    There is also a difference between Axis money vs Allies:
    Axis 42.3% vs Allies 57.8%
    VS
    Axis 40.9% vs Allies 59.1%

    Maybe it is a difference which can matters more…
    IDK  :?

  • 2024 '22 '21 '19 '15 '14

    So something like this…

    updated. I suspect the suggestions offered above will agree with the patterns established in testing, and don’t seem like they would break the set up. I will put them up for testing.

    The relative values and % in 1942.2 don’t recommend themselves to me as a basis for the adjustment, given the gameplay which it currently produces. I say you start with the intuitive gameplay needs and build the balance from there.

    v5 high production mod.jpg

  • '17 '16

    You said:

    New Zealand at 2
    E. Australia at 3
    Hawaii at 3

    Did you change your mind?

  • 2024 '22 '21 '19 '15 '14

    I am waiting for the compelling argument on Eastern Australia, and where to pull the ipc from if so. Here is the situation that concerns me, at 3, if UK puts the factory there and drops 3 units a round, can Japan muster enough transport power to ever threaten it? So far I have seen it working pretty well at 2.

    So lets argue the merits. If we move the ipc from western to eastern australia. Or else where to pull it from? W. Canada and Transjordan both seem to work well at 2 so I am reluctant to take from those. Burma is admittedly a wash. At 2, it does encourage the brits to trade a little, but not enough to make it an every round trade. I consider Burma a transit, a spot you need to park it in regardless of the value. But New Zealand is an interesting case I will grant. If you want to pull action there, it does seem like 2 would be the minimum, as it has not seen action in games tested thus far, I am inclined to agree with you that it could be good to have at 2.

    The alternative is to break the round numbers, but its always so much cleaner if you can get and even spread.

  • '17 '16

    With all the money in China and Russia, I’m not sure a Japanese will want to go India or in Pacific…
    The main objective will be to get the easy money first.

    Maybe the easy pray such as Soviet Far East and Buryatia should be a little lower???

    To provide an incentive to go elsewhere at the beginning?

  • 2024 '22 '21 '19 '15 '14

    Well if you go lower than 3, then you end up with the situation where Russia pulls back and just gives the territory to Japan. The money is there to encourage Russia to trade, because we have all seen what happens when the value is low. Japan takes low value territory regardless, because it is on the eventual path towards Moscow and keeps fighters from landing. With a higher value (3=the replacement cost of 1 inf) then Russia and USA are both encouraged to fight here. Also, at 6 total production potentially on sz 63 (if they buy factories), Japan finally has a way in to North America, that can actually work! Remember if Japan goes north, then it is harder for them to cover south, and center, and there is money to be traded there as well. But basically the money in the East is a draw for Russia more than Japan.
    The whole crux of my argument, is that the Russian money needs to be contested, or else you end up with the Moscow Turtle, and Japan walks all over the east.

  • '17 '16

    I’m wondering if you should not increase to 3 IPCs the other chinese territories near Russian border.
    SO, if a US player want to put an IC there, he gets at least a round to put some new units on the board.
    Maybe with all this precious US territories all around Japan: Alaska, Midway, Hawaii, China, it will become a more urgent matter to USA to get in Pacific vs Japan. Before it grows a monster eating a lot of resources against them.

    Japan finally has a way in to North America, that can actually work! Remember if Japan goes north, then it is harder for them to cover south, and center, and there is money to be traded there as well.

    Like it.

  • 2024 '22 '21 '19 '15 '14

    The thought was that szech at 3 can  be used this way, backed up with additional factories at 2 if desired. It also makes the Japanese center push harder with those at 2. Consider also that if you added a starting factory to certain locations, you can balance without having to alter the numbers. An option to think about, but so far I have had fun with both china and the far east like this.

  • '17 '16

    @Black_Elk:

    The thought was that szech at 3 can  be used this way, backed up with additional factories at 2 if desired. It also makes the Japanese center push harder with those at 2. Consider also that if you added a starting factory to certain locations, you can balance without having to alter the numbers. An option to think about, but so far I have had fun with both china and the far east like this.

    I’m not just sure it can stand a chance if USA didn’t have it on the initial board…
    Usually, on the second turn, I push all Japanese ground units to finish off USA units.
    Unless, it is better to just build one IC at 2 near the Russian border (Russia can easily reinforce it.) and later recapture the lost Szechwan territory.

  • 2024 '22 '21 '19 '15 '14

    Yep, but you are also playing in a situation where Russia collects less than 30 ipcs in the first round. Now they collect above 40. Let me describe the situation as it has played out so far in games with the Far East and China adjustments.

    Russia generally stacks Yakut to cover the far east, leaving 6 ipcs in contention. And reinforces Szech, which it is possible to hold into the third round with tank, fighter, or infantry support (recall that tanks can blitz from Moscow or Caucasus to reinforce Szech, and they could also bring the 2 inf in evenki to Szech by the second round if it is critical to the Allied plan). If a factory is bought in the first round, America can drop 3 tanks in the second round. UK can also help to reinforce so the eastern wall develops around these two spaces, Yakut and Szech. What happens from there depends on the choices Japan makes. If Japan goes full north, the Allies can push center south. If Japan goes center south, then Allies can reinforce north. If Japan splits, Allies can split defense and hold the Wall. If Japan focuses totally on the mainland, USA can start pushing a Pac navy to peel income away. Into the second round Japan’s income is still increasing, along with Germany. Allies will begin to drop, so there is the initiative factor in the Axis game. If you get a chance to try it, you may see similar patterns emerge. But yeah, definitely give it a shot, let me know what you think.

    Russia is collecting near 40 into the second and third round, which gives them a lot more to work with on a defense against Japan. If anything an additional Russian factory in Evenki, rather than an American one in China could be used to balance the situation, but as of now, it seems to work pretty well just with the production values adjusted.

    More people buy ships in this mod, has also been my experience,  which is interesting.  I have not seen an appreciable increase in overall game length,  larger battles in the midgame though,  which is fun.

  • '17 '16

    I would like to try it somehow but cannot download the file???
    First time I do it, but I receive the error message about time. :?

  • 2024 '22 '21 '19 '15 '14

    The way I did it was to copy the 1942 map file, (you can extract the zip), and then put the xml in there in the games folder. There might be an easier way, but that’s how I did it to test.

  • '17 '16

    @Black_Elk:

    The way I did it was to copy the 1942 map file, (you can extract the zip), and then put the xml in there in the games folder. There might be an easier way, but that’s how I did it to test.

    I cannot see where is the zip on that page?

    http://tripleadev.1671093.n2.nabble.com/file/n7585507/WW2v5_1942_2nd_Edition_High_Production_Mod.xml

  • 2024 '22 '21 '19 '15 '14

    If you like you can just use this gamesave… You can put it in the savegame folder and then launch in a bot or locally from the saved games.

    or come to the lobby and I’ll launch it

    The xml above has to be “saved as” and then put into a map folder to launch. But the gamesave can be used without needing to do anything else, since it uses all the same mapfiles as regular 1942.2, only the production numbers are different.

    production mod.tsvg

  • '17 '16

    I don’t have the 1.8.0.3 version of Triple A
    What/where is the lobby?

  • 2024 '22 '21 '19 '15 '14

    Well that would be step one. The latest stable lobby launches automatically when you click the “play online” button from the initial screen. Once you are at that stage, anyone can launch a gamesave in a bot with the gamesave. Or you can do it locally, you just put the gamesave attached above into your saved games folder, and then click “load saved game.”

    I expect Imperious will move this to the House Rules section eventually, which is cool. I just started it here since it advances some of my production thoughts relating to the 1942.2 board and because this is where the interest was likely to be.

  • '17 '16

    Thanks.
    I will have to find a way download the latest version.
    Still an issue…

  • 2024 '22 '21 '19 '15 '14

    No problem dude. I would say that so far, the battle for the far east is fairly tight. Russia is collecting more, but they also face a more potent threat. I would say Evenki is the ideal territory if another starting factory is used to balance the situation here because it covers the routes into Arch, Yakut and China, but is one space off Yakut (so it can’t be stacked immediately.) Tanks purchased here could reach into the far east, but also cover Karelia through Arch. It is the prime candidate I think, if anything is needed because (unlike USA) Russia is still more cash strapped. If all the rest of the Allies must purchase factories to activate the production power of their starting territories, Evenki alone might be enough. But I’m not sure if even that is necessary. It is possible for Russia to purchase a factory in the opening round to cover and still get up to 9 ground. Or push to support a Szech factory. Or just concentrate on G. They have a lot more options at 40, but they are also under threat in much the same way as before. If they send fighters to cover Suez, or the far east, then they are somewhat out of position against G. So something still has to give somewhere. Overall though, I find this set up has a certain charm. Factories in the first round can be used to establish the lines, and then players wheel around each other based on who is concentrating where. I find this sort of playstyle entertaining, perhaps you will too :)

    The factory unit at 12 is much more adaptive. It is possible to concentrate production closer to the front, but the upper limit on the money is such that Nations cannot afford to max place everywhere at once. They still have to make choices, if you buy new production, it is the investment cost, and less units you are stacking in other territories (like the home capital regions) so it is still a trade off. After you make a few buys at the higher scale economy you start to see where the ceiling hits, which sorts of builds are actually viable.

    Also after deliberation, I can see your point about a 3 in E. Australia, but I think this would require dropping W. Canada back to one, to push the ipc out. The thought behind Western Canada at 2, is a draw for Japan, if they cross into N. America. But as it is a necessary transit space for US (or possibly Japan), it would not have huge swing effect if dropped back down. Thus far we have not seen W. Canada make a huge impact at 2, so perhaps the ipc could be shifted, if a strong need was demonstrated. I still kind of enjoy the current Australia set up. Its just big enough to potentially make a difference, but just low enough that Japan doesn’t make an all out press immediately, but’s valuable enough to go out of position for a round, if the area is left undefended. Another possibility is to drop India back down to 4, but I have found it pretty entertaining at 4, so I’m not sure pulling from that location is ideal either.

  • 2024 '22 '21 '19 '15 '14

    Note this map mod has also been Sea Lion balanced. Russian can shut it down one of two ways, either by destroying the German fighter in Ukraine, or by landing a fighter in Arch. If this doesn’t occur, then Germany does have the option. If they throw everything into transports they can get 5 and a carrier with 1 ipc remaining. But this is counterbalanced by the fact that UK can drop 3 inf and 5 tanks in the first round. Which means in order for it to be successful in the second round, Germany must kill both Atlantic destroyers and survive with the med transport in 14. Even then, the number of units involved in the attack ensures that it will be a swing, rather than a definite for the Attacker, even under these optimal but rather unlikely circumstances. This does not rule out a multi round sea lion, but to make that kind of investment, G allows Russia to throw their full wait against Japan. US can go Szech factory with Russian coverage, and still press pretty effectively in the Atlantic. So the play has built in risk.

  • 2024 '22 '21 '19 '15 '14

    Here’s a thought… move the Russian factory from Karelia to Evenki!

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