Question about special forces units (SS, Guards, Marines, etc.)

[knp7765]

Thanks for the info. It looks like I pretty much got it right for the most part, perhaps with the exception of the SNLF. It sounds like they were actually somewhat LESS capable than regular units rather than some elite fighting force. Still, for the purposes of the game, we could stretch the truth a bit and make like they were a sort of Marine equivalent.
As for units, it looks like any special units for any nation should be confined to ground forces, with the US Marines having some air capabilities.

Yeah, I know about the lack of love loss between the Wehrmacht and the SS. Also that the SS was a political branch within the Nazi party. They also had some fierce fighting units that really distinguished themselves, especially on the eastern front. Perhaps instead of simply calling them “SS”, a more correct term would be “Waffen SS” since those were the actual combat troops.

Anyway, I just finished spray painting my OOB German pieces a dark grey color because like many have said, German pieces should be represented in grey, not black. However, I want to keep a few black pieces to represent Waffen SS units. Obviously there is no need to keep any warships black to use as SS units, probably no planes either. Just infantry, artillery, halftracks and tanks should do it.

Thanks again.

[toblerone77]

Investing in some units from HBG is well worth the money and it will give you color and unit variation without the fuss and mess of painting just for new nations or units. I do paint pieces for the fun of it, but I’m not planning on painting all of the thousands of sculpts I have.

[CWO Marc]

@knp7765:

Thanks for the info. It looks like I pretty much got it right for the most part, perhaps with the exception of the SNLF. It sounds like they were actually somewhat LESS capable than regular units rather than some elite fighting force. Still, for the purposes of the game, we could stretch the truth a bit and make like they were a sort of Marine equivalent.
As for units, it looks like any special units for any nation should be confined to ground forces, with the US Marines having some air capabilities. Yeah, I know about the lack of love loss between the Wehrmacht and the SS. Also that the SS was a political branch within the Nazi party. They also had some fierce fighting units that really distinguished themselves, especially on the eastern front. Perhaps instead of simply calling them “SS”, a more correct term would be “Waffen SS” since those were the actual combat troops.

Thanks for the info. It looks like I pretty much got it right for the most part, perhaps with the exception of the SNLF. It sounds like they were actually somewhat LESS capable than regular units rather than some elite fighting force. Still, for the purposes of the game, we could stretch the truth a bit and make like they were a sort of Marine equivalent. <<

Yes, and I must admit that when I heard the phrase “Imperial Japanese Marines” used in a WWII-era documentary (I think it was Attack in the Pacific) it did have a nice ring to it, even if the reality wasn’t quite up to what the term suggested.

As for units, it looks like any special units for any nation should be confined to ground forces, with the US Marines having some air capabilities. <<

Agreed.  One technique you could use to justify elite air and sea units would be to have them represent brilliant individuals (or units commanded by brilliant individuals).  In the air, these would be aces like Adolf Galland, and his squadrons if he commanded any.  At sea, I’m thinking of Germany’s U-boat aces like Otto Kretschmer and Joachim Schepke, and dashing destroyer captains like Britain’s Philip Vian (who conducted the last major boarding action even taken by the Royal Navy).

Another group you may want to toss into the mix, by the way, are the US Army’s Rangers, an elite unit which distinguished itself on D-Day at Omaha Beach and Pointe-du-Hoc if I remember correctly.

Perhaps instead of simply calling them “SS”, a more correct term would be “Waffen SS” since those were the actual combat troops. <<

That would indeed be correct.  “Waffen SS” was the actual name of the Waffen SS, to distinguish it from the overall parent SS organization.  The black-uniformed non-combat SS personnel that are seen in countless WWII documentaries and fiction films were, I think, sometimes called the “Allgemeine SS” or “general SS”.

[knp7765]

@CWO:

Another group you may want to toss into the mix, by the way, are the US Army’s Rangers, an elite unit which distinguished itself on D-Day at Omaha Beach and Pointe-du-Hoc if I remember correctly.

Maybe I’m getting my military groups confused, but I thought the US Army Rangers were the Airborne troops.

I’ve already got plans to include paratroops since HBG has already given us sculpts for USA, Germany and (soon) Japan. They are working on a British set and I imagine we will get some Russian paratroops before too much longer. Although Russia isn’t a priority for me since I don’t imagine they will be using them in our games, but it would be nice to have them anyway.

[knp7765]

@toblerone77:

Investing in some units from HBG is well worth the money and it will give you color and unit variation without the fuss and mess of painting just for new nations or units. I do paint pieces for the fun of it, but I’m not planning on painting all of the thousands of sculpts I have.

Oh yeah, I agree with you and I have gotten a lot of stuff from HBG. Love their pieces. It’s just that I still like some of the OOB pieces too and want them both grey and black. I’ve already sprayed my current OOB pieces to be grey. I would like to get a few to keep black for the Waffen SS units, which won’t be as many as the Wehrmacht units so I shouldn’t need as many.

[CWO Marc]

@knp7765:

Maybe I’m getting my military groups confused, but I thought the US Army Rangers were the Airborne troops.

It’s my understanding that the Rangers are (or at least were originally formed as) highly trained ground troops.  They came ashore on D-Day in landing craft, unlike the US Army’s two airborne D-Day divisions – the 82nd and the 101st – which parachuted into Normandy during the night-time hours before the landings.

[Gargantua]

Seebataillon is the traditional name of German marines.

In WWII this small group was called “Marine-Stoßtrupp-Kompanie”

Again, it was small, and really only used to occupy the channel islands.

Comparatively, I would argue that they would be the equivelant of the described SNLF, (Sailors with rifles), as opposed to waffen ss troops, or USMC.

From a “game” perspective if you wanted to include them, I would just call them Seebatallion, and give them the same stats as SNLF.

The arguement being, that you are committing your government to make a special force, for marine/naval landings.

[knp7765]

@Gargantua:

Seebataillon is the traditional name of German marines.

In WWII this small group was called “Marine-Stoßtrupp-Kompanie”

Again, it was small, and really only used to occupy the channel islands.

Comparatively, I would argue that they would be the equivelant of the described SNLF, (Sailors with rifles), as opposed to waffen ss troops, or USMC.

What about Norway? That involved amphibious landings. Seebataillon wasn’t used there?

[CWO Marc]

Thanks for the information rjpeters.  Whenever I see the phrase “airborne cavalry” I always think of the (possibly apocryphal) story that, in the 1930s, military offiers in some countries experimented with the concept of transporting horses by airplane.

[Tall Paul]

CWO Marc,

@CWO:

Thanks for the information rjpeters.  Whenever I see the phrase “airborne cavalry” I always think of the (possibly apocryphal) story that, in the 1930s, military offiers in some countries experimented with the concept of transporting horses by airplane.

––It seems that some MODERN unit descriptions have been included above. “Airborne Cavalry” generally describes the Viet Nam era paratroopers of the 101st Airborne that were transported to the battle via helicopters,…thus “AirCav” was born.

----As far as WW2 special forces unit types that would be proper to use in an Axis & Allies game I would suggest:
–Paratroopers–Infantry with an air delivery capability.
–Army Rangers and Marine Raiders were both designed as assault forces that fought at the point of amphibious landings that also could be used independently in infiltrations/raids. They were originally trained by the British "Commando"s. If you’re interested,….I’ll post a “link” so you can see some pics of U.S. Army “Airborne” and U.S. Marine “Raiders” A&A units on my thread under the U.S. Army and U.S. Marine threads.

http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=29950.0

“Tall Paul”

[Gargantua]

If we’re going to continue talking about modern special forces, also list Space Marines, and look up Operation Hot Eagle

Legit.