@panther thanks Panther! It seemed unintentional but given the comically immense amount of coast Sea Zone 10 covers I couldn’t rule out part of Mexico touching 11.
Sea Lion worth it?
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KingPin,
Your SeaLion attack may work against a weak Allied opponent or if the Brit/Allied player doesn’t put up a good UK defense. I suggest you go play some of the better A&A players online via TripleA and see how that strategy works out for you. Then report back your results. Actually if you play in the League section of the Forum, everyone can see your results. You can go the Play Boardgames section of the Forum, then League, then League Results to see a list of the better A&A players(Gamerman, Allweneedislove, Hobo, Zigguraut, etc…). Then challenge them to a game. Good luck! :-D
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Sea Lion being so ridiculously easy in Alpha 2 is what lead to this situation now, IMHO. After all there was quite a lot of cauterwalling over on Larry’s forums about how horrible it was and over powering it was that the Germans could do Sea Lion (note there were very few voices calling out of the roaring hoards that pointed out that Sea Lion effectively saved Russia from defeat and since it was only 1 VC and could be liberated a lot easier, it was better to give Germany England than to lose Moscow) that Larry created rules to make it harder to take, and thus, far less rewarding.
As for me, my opinion is this, I plan my strategy over the easiest method to win. Which for the allies just means they can’t lose (they win by default if they don’t lose.) For Germany however, I am of the mindset currently that a couple transports doesn’t hurt, helps hold Scandinavia gives you quick mobilization to Russia if needed, and you can exploit the British if they make a mistake on their defense. Otherwise, I think Russia (yet again) gets dog piled which annoys me, we finally had a game where KRF did not HAVE to be the strategy of the day.
These are just my opinions, keep in mind most of my experience with the game is around Alpha 2 and Alpha 3.
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they win by default if they don’t lose
The sole exeption is if Axis gain the income upper hand by controlling middeleast, but that is also a way to loose in some ways.
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KingPin,
Your SeaLion attack may work against a weak Allied opponent or if the Brit/Allied player doesn’t put up a good UK defense. I suggest you go play some of the better A&A players online via TripleA and see how that strategy works out for you. Then report back your results. Actually if you play in the League section of the Forum, everyone can see your results. You can go the Play Boardgames section of the Forum, then League, then League Results to see a list of the better A&A players(Gamerman, Allweneedislove, Hobo, Zigguraut, etc…). Then challenge them to a game. Good luck! :-D
I’m sure the better A&A players would counter and blow up my strategy. I play global about 6 times a year. My strategy is a very aggressive one by the axis and if the UK builds a fortress, the release valve of an assault on Russia in Leningrad. I like it in theory because its a pick your poison for the US.
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Good post from Jenn - I agree with her on this
I have never lost as Allies when G attempts Sea Lion
We are getting to the point where we invite a Sea Lion attempt
If you don’t pressure Russia, Russia will kick your butt. Especially now with the 3 IPC NO per territory, which was another change as of Alpha2/3 somewhere in there.Jenn is right, there was an overreaction to complaints that Sea lion was too easy, and now it’s rarely rewarding, which leads to more 1-dimensional Axis strats
Dog pile Russia. If the Allies don’t lose, they win. If the Allies don’t lose Russia, they will almost always win. There are exceptions, of course.
To answer the question of the thread “Sea Lion worth it?” I would say, yes, when UK has a lot of money to plunder and you can take it fairly cheaply (without losing your entire fleet to Allied strike after taking) and/or you can take it and hold it at least for awhile.
I would not attempt Sea Lion with less than about 80-90% odds and also a very high chance of losing only a couple of aircraft. If you’re looking at a 60% chance of taking London with 1 tank and losing most or all of the Luftwaffe - no way.
You don’t win G40 2nd edition just because you successfully took London.
Again, I have never lost after losing London. It’s best to go full bore after Russia, because Moscow is the biggest threat to the Axis win.
Like I said, I agree with Jenn on this.
Show me a game where the Axis win after taking London first (in the first 5 or so rounds) and I will show you an Allied player who didn’t do his job, or got horribly diced, or both. A good Russian player will be licking his chops when he sees the Germans attack London, and should absolutely mop up (assuming London is reasonably defended and G loses most ground units and several air craft, which they almost always will)New rules that make Sea Lion less rewarding since OOB, Alpha1 version -
Russia AND USA immediately enter the war if London falls
No more NO for London for Germany
AAs can be taken as casualties and UK gets 5
Transport in 113 moved out of range to 114
UK can scramble 3 aircraft from Scotland and UK (for those who don’t remember, weren’t aware, you could not scramble from the UK or Scotland at all, OOB)
Russia gets 3 IPC NO for every single original Axis, pro-Axis Europe/Africa territory (this is a pretty serious deterrent)And there are probably more
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If Russia is not dead, the only way I see (looking at the board) for the Axis to win, realistically, is with Japan. Not saying you CANNOT win if Russia is still holding it’s capitol, but I assume if you are at that point, you probably could take it (France, Germany, Poland, Italy, Stalingrad, Cairo, Novgorod and London at that point, right? )
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Washington DC and Ottawa! :wink:
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You’re OTTAWA? Â (out a wha)
Although I do remember the surprise on a certain party’s “face” (post) when I took Washington DC on like round 4 with Germany back in Alpha 2. (Feignted Sea Lion and went down to Gibraltar instead, he musta thought I was going for Egypt or something because he didn’t defend Washington.)
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UK can scramble 3 aircraft from Scotland and UK (for those who don’t remember, weren’t aware, you could not scramble from the UK or Scotland at all, OOB)
If Germany buys nothing r1, and UK makes itself juicy enough.
You can do:
- A german sbr on london r2
- Buy trannies only (and dd if needed).
- Then do another sbr on Italys turn vs the airbase and suddenly you dont need to waste any units defending from the now not present scramble.
If Germany already had 85-90% odds it might get closer to 99,9%. Then its bye bye britain and still alot of ground units left to kick Soviet. In ll its close to impossible to defend london and hit z97 r1 as uk, even with 1sub bid.
Japan is ofc in a good position and require most US attention for the first 2-4 rounds so Germany/Italy is free to wreak havoc on Soviet. IC bombing is the way to go vs moscow after sealion. Just 4-5 bombers can shut down the soviet ecnonmy permanent, and that is an exelent task for stinking rich Italy.
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Not making any purchases round 1 means you have lots opportunity for those units for the rest of the game. Like the old poem, for want of a nail… …the war was lost. (google it if you don’t know it, pretty good poem.)
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@Cmdr:
Not making any purchases round 1 means you have lots opportunity for those units for the rest of the game.
did you mean lots or lost?
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I mean lost. Dang typos! I am referring, of course, to Opportunity Cost, the cost of being able to have that infantry/armor/plane had you purchased it in time that you now don’t have it.
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UK can scramble 3 aircraft from Scotland and UK (for those who don’t remember, weren’t aware, you could not scramble from the UK or Scotland at all, OOB)
If Germany buys nothing r1, and UK makes itself juicy enough.
You can do:
- A german sbr on london r2
- Buy trannies only (and dd if needed).
- Then do another sbr on Italys turn vs the airbase and suddenly you dont need to waste any units defending from the now not present scramble.
If Germany already had 85-90% odds it might get closer to 99,9%. Then its bye bye britain and still alot of ground units left to kick Soviet. In ll its close to impossible to defend london and hit z97 r1 as uk, even with 1sub bid.
Japan is ofc in a good position and require most US attention for the first 2-4 rounds so Germany/Italy is free to wreak havoc on Soviet. IC bombing is the way to go vs moscow after sealion. Just 4-5 bombers can shut down the soviet ecnonmy permanent, and that is an exelent task for stinking rich Italy.
UK would of course buy defensively if you don’t buy anything round 1. There is no reason not too, since your are a turn off from hurting russia efficiently.
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UK would of course buy defensively if you don’t buy anything round 1. There is no reason not too, since your are a turn off from hurting russia efficiently.
Encouraging a UK1 London buy, without a G1 naval buy, is win-win for the Axis in my opinion. I agree with ER about saving some or all German IPC.
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What is a round 1 Sea Lion buy for Germany?
I buy a carrier regardless where I go, it just makes sense. So what if it’s a Carrier + Strategic Bomber or Carrier + 2 Transports (c’mon, 3 transports is just wise for Germany anyway, right? And you don’t NEED the infantry on round 1 to kill Russia.)
Anyway, Sea Lion is always worth it if you calculate the battle cost, opportunity cost, and over all strategic situation. The question should be, imho, is it worth it to do it on round 3? Which again, really depends on what is defending there, but I am going to go out on a limb and say “no” since in most instances it isn’t worth the cost outlay to do it that early, IMHO.
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Russia is realy dead when Germany buys for 100 ipc mec and tanks and UK is bad positioned to help them anytime soon. Landunits in London have zero value untill you tranny them away.
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Or, you can do what my opponent did in my last game and buy 5 Battleships for Germany. Needless to say, Russia rolled right over him.
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Or, you can do what my opponent did in my last game and buy 5 Battleships for Germany. Needless to say, Russia rolled right over him.
:lol:
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Or, you can do what my opponent did in my last game and buy 5 Battleships for Germany. Needless to say, Russia rolled right over him.
A battleship for the Caspian sea has always been a huge game changer for Russia.
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