@MarshmallowofWar that is correct.
Kill America First
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Only on the third turn would the US see the ‘Cat out of the bag’ when Germany moves to Gibraltar. If Japan can still hit WUS and Germany hits CUS (or EUS if possible).
I would argue that a savvy player would expect a German attack the minute Japan seriously threatens the USA. The Pacific `40 stand-alone USA hit won’t work in Global due to the fact that the USA will get $20 more to spend on units once Japan gives its DoW, and the USA has the extra units from C. & E. USA that can move over. I think the KAF plan in Global requires German help to be successful.
EDIT: Although I should say, that doing this without German help can still be effective. Use the TTs to do Sea Lion instead and the USA will be too busy with Japan to interfere.
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Right, agree with you Eggman. This is an “Axis all-in on KAF” with turn 2 being point of no return. Yes if the US prepares for the KAF then Germany can just do Sealion. This is similar to the old “Canadian Shield” tactic in Revised… Only possible once per player.
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Well, of course you have to kill all the UK fleet- sacrificing air if necessary. Typically, the UK is going to buy all infantry or 6 inf/ 1 fighter turn 1 then when seeing a 10 Transport buy, probably buy all infantry.
This gives the UK 3-4 fighters, a DD, and a bomber to hit the fleet- if they don’t scramble turn 1.
Italy can be in Gibraltar turn 2 - remember this is a go for broke strat. If the UK sees an imminent sealion, they may not even attack sz 97 (taranto)- thus you have a complete italian fleet that can be with the germans off gibraltar turn 3.
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How does a UK1 92 stack work with a KAF?
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Well, more than likely the Italians will throw everything they have at the UK fleet in SZ 92 to keep them from bothering the Germans. In that case, depending on how well the battle goes for the Italian fleet, Italy may not have ships to clear US blockers for Germany.
If that happens, it will delay Germany’s attack on E US another round to G 5 and may make their attack fail since by that time US will be at war, making the extra NO money and be able to spend it all on the Major ICs in E US and C US.
Of course, if that happens, Germany could probably still do Sealion. -
how does italy send more than their 3 planes? uk blocks the fleet.
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Normally the UK does the Taranto Thing (most likely) or holes up at Cairo. They cannot know you are doing KAF. Obviously if they know its KAF ahead of time then they can stop it.
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In my games, its 70-80% 92 stack with the remainder being Taranto Raid. A good 92 stack allows the UK to: defend from sealion, protect Egypt, and threatens the italian navy. It usually involves a blocker or 2, and either airbase gib, or stack algeria depending on the situation.
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Wow a stack at 92? I tried that once and lost Cairo and the Mideast fairly easily.
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Wow a stack at 92? I tried that once and lost Cairo and the Mideast fairly easily.
Yeah I’ve been finding that leaving Italy their BB + 2 TTs is a worse outcome than having the UK Med fleet hit in a SZ97 reprisal. It might be a smarter play in J1 DoWs when the US can immediately send some help to knock Italy down.
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@Eggman:
Wow a stack at 92? I tried that once and lost Cairo and the Mideast fairly easily.
Yeah I’ve been finding that leaving Italy their BB + 2 TTs is a worse outcome than having the UK Med fleet hit in a SZ97 reprisal. It might be a smarter play in J1 DoWs when the US can immediately send some help to knock Italy down.
Agreed.
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92 has the simultaneous advantage of blocking all of the italian NO’s, holds egypt, and protects from sealion. The only problem with a 92 stack, is that u can’t grab ethe right away, but italy usually leaves it anyway. Egypt becomes stacked turn 1, and turn 2, u have 5-6 more planes flying in(unless germany goes for a sealion). Egypt won’t fall if you play smart. And this also can allow a turn 1 persia grab with the 98 transport if you dont need to stack algeria. The only times I do 97 now, is if there is somehow 100% zero sealion chance, french 93 fleet dead G1, or if Germany has enough air in range if 92, along with me not being able to hold algeria well enough with out compromising sealion defense.
The worst thing that can happen, is if italy stacks hard in alex, sudan, tj, and syria. He may briefly have Iraq for a turn, but since he gives up his navy for that(loses the chance for other NOs) I would take that trade anyday.
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I don’t see how SZ 92 holds Egypt. It seems like a very limiting position. You can’t send your fleet anywhere in the Med from there without fear of German air strike. It does prevent Italy from taking Gibraltar, I suppose.
Italy played right can simultaneously block your fleet in SZ 92 from hitting SZ 98 when they are ready to take Egypt (Can be as early as Turn 2 if the UK fleet is in 92). It is also dangerous if German air fly to Africa turn 2.
Massing at SZ 98 with an airbase on turn 2 (with the starting aircraft in the med) does prevent Italy from hitting Egypt. With an IC turn 2 (or 3) in Egypt, the Axis will not be able to take it for a long time, if at all.
If the land situation in Africa is dealt with early, the UK can build more navy at SZ 98 (perhaps even transports), or send mobile units to help in Russia or India.
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I don’t see how SZ 92 holds Egypt. It seems like a very limiting position. You can’t send your fleet anywhere in the Med from there without fear of German air strike. It does prevent Italy from taking Gibraltar, I suppose.
Italy played right can simultaneously block your fleet in SZ 92 from hitting SZ 98 when they are ready to take Egypt (Can be as early as Turn 2 if the UK fleet is in 92). It is also dangerous if German air fly to Africa turn 2.
Massing at SZ 98 with an airbase on turn 2 (with the starting aircraft in the med) does prevent Italy from hitting Egypt. With an IC turn 2 (or 3) in Egypt, the Axis will not be able to take it for a long time, if at all.
If the land situation in Africa is dealt with early, the UK can build more navy at SZ 98 (perhaps even transports), or send mobile units to help in Russia or India.
92 holds egypt because italy has 6 ground units(4 if u block) on egypt, while you have 10+ (more if had ground units in your bid). Your combined air and navy kill his 98 fleet with ease (french open block).
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If suez open, u have 2 more ships in inolved
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If suez open, u have 2 more ships in inolved
No, Italy would not attack Egypt until turn 2 or 3. Italian air and sub take out French fleet turn 1. If some German air is available in Africa, it is tough to hold Egypt from Gibraltar.
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Italy has no odds turn 2, and turn 3, its even worse.
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UK places a minor turn 2 in egypt, and possibly a full transport in south africa.
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It depends on what you commit to Egypt and what Italy buys.
If you bring stuff from India, then yes Egypt will hold.
If you bring all UK air, then yes Egypt will hold.
If Germany stations some air in Alexandria with the Italian stack, it may be able to do some damage on ships in the Red sea. Or, depending on the size of the British fleet at Gibraltar, German subs/air can take it out, even with 3 fighters scrambling.
If Italy keeps its fleet from turn 1 (only the ships at Malta die), they can block the SZ 92 fleet from interfering for one turn and land 4 support land units in Alexandria (or Syria if they don’t have the odds on Egypt turn 3) with its North Africa troops. German air land there turn 3. From there it depends on what you committed to Egypt. Even if Italy cannot take it, they can tie down lots of UK assets there that would otherwise help in other areas.
If you dropped units in Syria, they can get the free Iraq units and be a pain in the Mid East.
My whole point of this is the attack on the Italian fleet is totally worth losing the starting British fleet in the Med, for Italy never recovers if you keep the heat on.
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Or, if you’d rather keep the British fleet in the med, going to the Red sea first turn then 2nd turn moving back into SZ 98 with an airbase and air on Egypt is better than SZ 92.
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