Preparing the Sleeping Dragon. US1-3 2nd Edition


  • Basically what should the buys be for the first 3 turns? A bunch of destroys and transports with land units boarding up?

    And I had a previous post about UK1 and someone said i could do a build up by Gilbralter. If conditions permit, could i send all the units I built for North America and send them to North Africa? It could take a few tries but it could potentially spell the end of Italy’s game, forcing them to turtle.

    Or should I take Brazil within the first 3 turns, build a minor IC and send those units to North Africa as a conglamorant with those from the north?


  • You are not even allowed to take over brazil when you are netural


  • Okay so I can’t get Brazil but still what should my purchases be for US 1-3?


  • you cant go wrong with airpower and some subs to starve Italy


  • If Germany is going Barbarossa, I usually buy the following on the first three turns:

    US1: CV, DD, Fighter save 1 IPC
    US2: CV, Fighterx2
    US3: TTx4, Sub

    That way you can use 3 transports to pick up your 3 mechs and drop them on Brazil.  Your other 2 transports and your other navy can drop the remaining US starting units in Gibraltar.  This can be reinforced with a UK air base and fighters and any ships they may have available to protect against axis counters.


  • Depends on what Axis does of course, but typically this:

    US1 - 1 Transport, 2 Destroyers or 1 CV, 1 Cruiser

    US2 - 2 Bombers, 1 Fighter

    US3 - 3 Bombers

    US4 - 4 Transports, 2 Bombers and/or Cruisers, 2 Inf

    I normally pick up one unit and grab Brazil when US goes to war with 2 TTs. These 2 TTs will link up with the 4 TTs in Gibraltar US5, giving a substantial landing force by US6.

    I am REALLY in favor of Bomber purchases for the US, they are extremely flexible in any strategy the Axis does imo. I like to go to war with 6 Bombers, they can support in any front you wish.


  • Rammstein, I like bombers as much as the next guy, but it seems to me that your surface fleet is way too small to threaten Germany on round 4.


  • Like I said, depends on what Axis does. If Germany purchased Bombers for example the US can exchange Bombers for Cruisers/Destroyers as fleet protection.

    The idea behind my strategy is to have 6 fully loaded TTs by US6 ready to land with air support and some degree of shore bombardment.

    As far as fleet protection I don’t see a problem. If the US goes with a CV purchase I think it should be able to deter any potential attack the Axis can throw at it while the fleet is parked in Gib.


  • Rammstein, I agree that it depends on what the Germans do, but I am routinely up against 5 fighters, 5 tac bombers, 2-3 bombers in Paris or West Germany.  If Germany has any subs in the Atlantic or surface ships in the north sea, your allied fleet off Gibraltar is toast.  I’ve been on the receiving end of that before. (though I thought, this battle is 50-50 - he probably won’t do it).  Germany losing most of its airforce hurts it less than the allies losing its fleet.


  • That’s one hell of a Luftwaffe at that point of the game   :-D How’s the Eastern front going?

    As far as German subs go, if Germany did well in naval on G1 and subs are aplenty I would probably buy the 2 Destroyers over the CV for this reason. Hopefully, if UK is doing his job right he can put a Destroyer blocker in the English Channel to prevent any German subs from hitting the  US Gib fleet. But regardless, the US should be able to do this himself.
    Unless Germany purchased an Air Base in Normandy or something, those Fighters and Tacs shouldn’t be able to reach a Gib fleet. Even if that were the case those planes would have to land in Algeria and therefore get wiped out in a counterattack.

    The whole thing is about balance, too much fleet protection and your offensive punch suffers, too little and your troops might never make it ashore. Bombers are the only REAL threat to a US fleet in Gib as German subs can be blocked or hunted if need be.

    Like I said I like to have 6 TTs ready in Gib at start of US6. The US can send out his warships on US4 and kill any rogue subs on US5 if need be, Bombers are good in this way too.


  • Well, if Germany does a G1 (or even G2), the Eastern front rarely requires much German air because Russia usually has to retreat slowly in that they cannot win a stack battle with the Germans.

    Therefore, Germany puts its entire airforce in West Germany (yes, planes can land in Algeria or Gibraltar if Italy takes it).  In my games Germany routinely takes southern France too- and places a sub or two there per round, which can move into the gibraltar fleet as well.

    The German players I have played recently rarely bat an eye losing some air for sinking the allied transports.  As a bonus, if the US builds enough in Europe to counter attack gibraltar or Morocco, less if facing Japan.

    I suppose if Germany doesn’t commit much to stopping UK/US fleet at gibraltar, then you’re fine.

    Maybe I’m just frustrated playing the Allies recently, because I can’t get anything to Gibraltar without being decimated before turn 6 or so, and by then russia is down to moscow (with 50 infantry, but still)


  • True, planes are not really needed in Russia except maybe for Moscow. I meant if you had to replace plane losses then that’s less men going to the Russian front.

    It sounds like your German opponent goes Barbarossa and keeps a shield of planes and subs against the west? I’m curious what his purchases are.

    I agree, I would also sacrifice planes to sink a fleet with TTs, however it can be a costly and risky move. I do think that an extra German bomber or two is helpful mid game as it can threaten Allied ships and attack Moscow in the final push.

    I think my purchase lineup for the US can work with most scenarios, but again if need be trade Bombers for warships. I have played as the US and purchased no Bombers whatsoever and found that the Axis have an even easier time defending themselves. Bombers are like the queen piece in chess, maximum range and great punch. Also, if Moscow looks like it might fall sooner than expected those Bombers can be sent in as fodder which can make all the difference.

    I find that 6 fully loaded TTs ready to land on US6 is a respectable and decent landing force on its own, add 3-6 Bombers and the Axis are going to have a tough time surviving the attack. If indeed the Axis have strong defenses the US can simply wait until US7 to attack and bring another 5 Bombers up. Next turn 12 land units plus 11 Bombers plus possible bombardments should equal victory unless the Axis has 30+ Inf defending.

    I am pro Bombers obviously, but after turn 4 if the strategy calls for it I will purchase TTs and men. But I still like to have an initial Bomber force when going to war.


  • @BJCard:

    Well, if Germany does a G1 (or even G2), the Eastern front rarely requires much German air because Russia usually has to retreat slowly in that they cannot win a stack battle with the Germans.

    Therefore, Germany puts its entire airforce in West Germany (yes, planes can land in Algeria or Gibraltar if Italy takes it).  In my games Germany routinely takes southern France too- and places a sub or two there per round, which can move into the gibraltar fleet as well.

    The German players I have played recently rarely bat an eye losing some air for sinking the allied transports.  As a bonus, if the US builds enough in Europe to counter attack gibraltar or Morocco, less if facing Japan.

    I suppose if Germany doesn’t commit much to stopping UK/US fleet at gibraltar, then you’re fine.

    Maybe I’m just frustrated playing the Allies recently, because I can’t get anything to Gibraltar without being decimated before turn 6 or so, and by then russia is down to moscow (with 50 infantry, but still)

    You could always build a naval base at Iceland with the UK, and move your fleet up there instead.


  • in a recent game of Europe 1940.2 my purchases for the US turns 1-3 were airpower and a mix of subs and transports along with troops. Airpower was used to clear out the Med and now my sub fleet is attacking German and Italian convoys. The Britts were buying airpower and airbases for Malta and Gibraltar which i believe are crucial to controlling the Med.


  • Hmm.  doesn’t sound like Germany was helping Italy very much in that.  Without German help, Italy is doomed.


  • I usually do 2 carries 2 subs and 1 dd us 1 99% of the time.  I try to do a bit to increase both navies so it does not take 2-3 turns to get your atlantic fleet up.  I never buy battleships or cruisers, aside for maybe replacing lost ones.  They just never seem cost-effective.  US2 and US3 are usually the same, maybe substituting a few ships for some fighters or transports.


  • @ghr2:

    I usually do 2 carries 2 subs and 1 dd us 1 99% of the time.  I try to do a bit to increase both navies so it does not take 2-3 turns to get your atlantic fleet up.  I never buy battleships or cruisers, aside for maybe replacing lost ones.  They just never seem cost-effective.  US2 and US3 are usually the same, maybe substituting a few ships for some fighters or transports.

    I think the OP was referring to the Europe only board.  In that case you would not have enough IPCs to purchase all of that (only 35 while at peace).

  • '15 '14

    @manstein39:

    If Germany is going Barbarossa, I usually buy the following on the first three turns:

    US1: CV, DD, Fighter save 1 IPC
    US2: CV, Fighterx2
    US3: TTx4, Sub

    That way you can use 3 transports to pick up your 3 mechs and drop them on Brazil.  Your other 2 transports and your other navy can drop the remaining US starting units in Gibraltar.  This can be reinforced with a UK air base and fighters and any ships they may have available to protect against axis counters.

    Hey folks,

    I did read the entire thread. However I have to say that imo manstein’s post looks like the only thought through strategy to me.
    I cannot believe that waiting till round 6 to have a least a chance of an invasion in Europe can be a good strategy. I have to admit that I mostly played Axis so far but I think it is key to disturb the German and the Italian AS EARLY as possible! We need to keep in mind that also an NO is linked to Gibraltar, so leaving this for 2 rounds just gives Italy extra resources.

    Thanks manstein, to me your strategy is an optimized way to get the maximum as quick as possible to Europe!

    I really doubt that mass bomber early can be the way to be. Sacrificing bombers vs fleet or using them as cannonfodder in Moscow is wast of IPCs. I think the key is to get a landing in Europe which cannot be countered easily in the next turn. THEN you need air to attack further territories or fighters to defend.

    However as I said I still need to get experience with US. I will certainly go the “drop quickly” way:-)

    Thanks!

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