• Customizer

    Yeah, there are a couple of conditions to this strategy. First, Japan has to wait as long as possible before attacking the Western Allies to keep USA out of the war as long as possible. So, they chew up China for 3 rounds then pounce on all the Western Allied possessions. Yeah, it takes Japan longer to start getting real money, but then they also have more stuff to go after the Allies with. Also, it depends on what USA does when they enter the war. If they go KJF, then it will be pretty good for Germany but rough for Japan. Russia simply can’t handle approaches on so many fronts at the same time so you will beat them all the way back to Moscow. UK will take some time trying to rebuild a navy so they can move troops over to Europe.
    You are right that the Major IC purchase does tip your hand at No Sealion, so UK can build more offensively. Also, it gets kind of rough on Italy as UK pretty much has their way with them. The thing is with any luck Germany will be able to take out Russia in time before UK gets too strong or any US presence is felt too much. If the US can neutralize Japan early enough, it could cause real problems for you in Europe, especially if anything goes wrong in your march to Moscow.
    If they decide on KGF, then you are probably screwed and this ends up being a bad strategy. Either you will be focusing so much on Russia that you won’t properly defend Europe or you will start spending money defending Europe but your Russian offensive will start to run out of steam too soon.
    The first time I tried this, it was a surprise so it worked very well. The second time, Russia thought they could handle it better with counter attacks. They came close but not quite and this meant less defense when I did get to Moscow. The last time was the KGF strategy which totally screwed me.


  • Thank you! I had a feeling that Japan needed to wait. And the difficulty I saw with that, that UKP and ANZAC are able to steady themselves enough where Japan isn’t getting an early Pacific win and freeing the US up to start landing in Africa, Europe, and Norway, seems to be the same difficulty that presents itself in reality.

    Has anybody gone early as Japan with this strategy?


  • my last game I did build the major in rumania on G2 (should have done it G1) (saved 30 on G1) and built 18 mechs .

    I planned to wait with japanese war, because  then I would get more time against ussr. my plan was to build 10 mechs in rumania on g3-5, use italian canopener to force ussr to retreat to moscow, and get the middle east.

    USA responded with building max against europe, to force germany to build in west, and make the investment a bad one.

    the result was that I was able to build around 20 mechs for g3-5.

    I was planning for japan to hit on J4, luckily, UK and anzak attacked on turn 2 (expecting a J3 attack). I said “thank you” and took all the moneyislands, indochina, and didn’t declare on US (getting 10 IPC for peace, and ensuring US could not move until US4). making the first possible US landing on US5.

    I missplayed alittle bit, but ended up with taking cauc+stalingrad+north persia around g6/g7. and had at that point higher production than the combined allied. (japan was had taken china, and most of east russia, UK had left india, to retake middle east, and to avoid getting killed by japan. Japan had sendt a carriertastforce with transport to west indian sea, threathening egypt and south africa, and started to land in central africa. luftwaffe was more than 22 planes strong, but kriegsmarine was gone, and norway was lost, but leningrad, stalingrad, and rostov had german minors producing, while italians where producing in ukraine, all builing enough to keep russia from leaving moscow in force, while sending as much as possible toward the middle east)


  • I think that your tactic of waiting until G2 probably helps, no? UK can’t commit to offense with the Sealion threat still being real. And that probably keeps him from scrambling. And leaves you with options, but at the cost of one turn of no production out of that IC if you do eventually drop it. I think there’s a compelling case to wait like you did. I think I actually see more value in this than in G1 because of the value that it gives in possibly allowing Italy some breathing room, while leaving the option open for punishing UK if they get too uppity too early.

  • '12

    @knp7765:

    The first time I tried this, it was a surprise so it worked very well. The second time, Russia thought they could handle it better with counter attacks. They came close but not quite and this meant less defense when I did get to Moscow. The last time was the KGF strategy which totally screwed me.

    This corroborates Fortress’ point.  If you start this G1 then the Allies have no reason not to go full-out KGF since you are pretty much committed to having your plan play out.

    @knp7765:

    I was planning for japan to hit on J4, luckily, UK and anzak attacked on turn 2 (expecting a J3 attack). I said “thank you” and took all the moneyislands, indochina, and didn’t declare on US (getting 10 IPC for peace, and ensuring US could not move until US4). making the first possible US landing on US5.

    I’m glad to hear somebody say this.  I’ve seen in more than one thread people saying the Allies should do a turn 2 DOW on Japan in basically every circumstance, which sounded insane to me for precisely this reason.  You guarantee that the US can’t make any attacks in Europe until US5 and they can’t support you in the Pacific until US4- giving Japan a free pass for two turns with little likelihood of putting any serious crimp in their plans unless for some reason they are spread out all over the place.


  • @Fortress:

    I think that your tactic of waiting until G2 probably helps, no? UK can’t commit to offense with the Sealion threat still being real. And that probably keeps him from scrambling. And leaves you with options, but at the cost of one turn of no production out of that IC if you do eventually drop it. I think there’s a compelling case to wait like you did. I think I actually see more value in this than in G1 because of the value that it gives in possibly allowing Italy some breathing room, while leaving the option open for punishing UK if they get too uppity too early.

    yes and no,

    its a tradeoff, if germany saves 30, then they should keep their BB alive, causing a little less dmg to britain, also there is a good chance of not being able to kill the british BB without building an AC on turn 2. There is also a greater odds that the italian fleet gets hit.

    However if they build the major, they can build 10 inf and 10 mech on turn 2 (gaining 10 IPC of value), while using their BB to cause maximum dmg to britain, Then if britain scrables, they have to build those ftrs up again before they can start landing.

    The main goal on the western front was to build enough planes that US/UK could not just land, then later so that they could not split their fleet. Germany held yugo, while italy held bulgaria, the plan was to build minor in yugo and some ABs around the adriatic, in case US wanted to send in only subs. Since Germany has enough planes, so that US cannot split the fleet, US cannot send subs to med if their fleet want to land in norway, italy or germany can build DDs under cover of 9fighters, so the subs have to retreat, from the adriatic.

    greatest weakness is kill germany first tho.
    BTW, we played 14 VCs so japan would not have taken hawaii for the win, but for economic destruction.

  • '16 '15 '10

    I think there are 2 identifiable advantages to the G1 Romania factory in a Barbarossa

    1. Since Romania is a spot closer to Moscow, you will be able to produce a row of inf/art where you wouldn’t be able to do so in Berlin.  But in a planned Barbarossa, this benefit only occurs on 1 turn (G2 for a G6 take, or G3 for a G7 take, etc).

    2. For the same reason, mechs built in Romania are able to reach Moscow a turn sooner.  So 2 turns before you intend to attack Moscow you can build 10 mech/tanks in Romania.  Again, this benefit will only occur on 1 turn (G4 for a G6 take, or G5 for a G7 take).

    I feel the 1st point is relatively minor, while the 2nd point is the strongest argument for a Romania IC.

    The disadvantages include….

    1. Inflexibility.  If you decide to buy transports to attack UK G2, then this factory is destined to fall into the hands of the Russians.  So imo UK might make a more aggressive UK 1 purchase against a Romania factory then they would against an all inf/art buy.

    2. It would require some maths to determine if the advantages for Barbarossa described above are worth the sacrifice of not getting 10 inf or 6 art 2 inf on Berlin on the 1st turn.  I suspect that they aren’t but I could be wrong.

    3. Suppose I’m going for a G6 Moscow take.  So with the Romania factory, to make the investment worthwhile i need to produce all mech/arm on Romania on G4.  The problem is that if Allies are full on KGF I might not be able to maximize that opportunity (i might need to buy inf/air to defend West Germany).  The longer you wait to take Moscow, the more relevant this point becomes.


  • I think this is one of the best thought-out and discussed threads I’ve read in a while.

    To your point, can’t you, for the cost of an extra 2 IPC, build a minor in Romania in conjunction with, say, 6I in Germany on G1? Then you get 90% of the benefit of those 10I that you could build on Berlin G1 (3I on Romania G2=3I on Berlin G1). You get to upgrade later if you want to and pay a 2 IPC premium for the flexibility. But if you need to change gears, you’re not wedded to the plan. And even if you do something slightly different, you still get full functionality of a forward minor IC for artillery to provide punch to the 2IPC southern ttys.


  • I really dont think the minor is worth it, not to produce infantry at least, lets say you build inf on g2 and g3. then you paid 12 +9+9=30 for 6 infantry, might as well just build 4 mechs on g1, 2 on G2, they will reach east poland on the g3, and you will have saved 10 ipc for an ftr on gr (or 2 more mechs)

    it has to be the major ic if you are planning to pump infs/mechs.

    if you are not planning to assault moscow, and take the middle east, then you might chose to build a minor ic in rostov, to be able to produce 9 inf/mech/art each turn in ukraine/rostov/ stalingrad

    I think the main difference between a major in rumania and building 10 inf in germany is that you will be able to stack ukraine on G4, instead of stacking west ukraine on G4, that means you can produce mechs/tanks in ukraine on G5, for the moscow hit, OR you might be able to collect stalingrad/cauc/middle east one turn before the schedual.

    this ofcourse depends on if you are able to gen enough to ukraine on G4, you might need italy to take it, so that luftwaffe can land there, but then the benefit of having the ukrainian factory is not as big.

    if the real prize is the middle east, then getting it a turn early will mean collecting all the objectives one more turn, that might be the difference.

  • '22 '20 '19 '18 '17 '16 '15 '14 '12

    If I go after USSR 100% I often will build a minor in Rom to pump out armor, plunk minors in Nuke and Ros to plunk out inf and art with the minor in sukr… a few turns of these guys churning out units and the USSR is dead.  (Although they always just pull back and run around Asia…)

    Come to think of it, has anyone had a real battle for Moscow lately?  All I’ve seen and done is retreat with the USSR


  • I’m in a slow moving game with my cousin right now. It is still the same game from when i first posted this (ie, the first time ive tried a major IC in Romania). It worked like a charm. I just took Moscow on what i THINK is G5, could be G6, with 10 tanks leftover. Italy doesn’t have egypt yet due to the UK being strong, but the Romania major IC will now pump everything down to the middle east and hopefully secure the win.

    The Romania Major IC worked well with Japan only declaring war on Russia (he stacked in Amur so I took it out). Right now, because i am terrible with Japan, I’m sort of on the ropes, but I bought myself enough time that i should be able to win on the Europe board.

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