• '13

    Can I get some feedback for a scramble scenario that occured this weekend at a Basement Game?

    GER did an anphibious landing on Novgorod.  the GER fleet consisted of a loaded carrier and a number of transports.  The declared attack had the planes from the carrier joined the anphib assault and attacked Novgorod.

    There was a single RUS fighter scrambled from Novgorod.

    Now, does the scrambled RUS fighter engage the planes from carrier before they make it to Novgorod?  Or since does the RUS fighter engage the naked carrier and transports - automatically sinking everything since the carrier is attacking with an att value of 0 vs. the figher’s defense of 4?

    What would the outcome be for this scenario?

    Thanks,

    Vold


  • I know that if the planes went to novgorod, they would fight there and NOT in the seazone. I suspect that the attacking player would have to weather 1 round of combat in the sea zone before being able to choose to retreat. I do not believe the death of the fleet is automatic.

  • '13

    also - Alpha +3 if that matters.  V

  • '13

    That’s the dilema - there is nothing to weather in the sea zone.  There are no ships in the sea zone that can attack and the fighters that were there are moving onto Novgorod - the carrier’s attack value is 0.

    so the fighter sits there until it scores 2 hits and kills everything?

    Or does the sea battle happen prior to the fighters leaving?

    Or…?


  • in that scenario, the carriers/trannys are defenseless, so, since the trannys cant retreat, they will die, the carriers can retreat after any round of combat if they choose.


  • I am fairly sure the ships can retreat if they survive the first round of combat (which it is impossible not to since the carrier takes 2 hits)

    One major difference here is that the person with the transports is ATTACKING, not defending. The attacker has the option to retreat, the defender never does.

  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    What’s funny, is that after retreating your carrier and transports, without the troops on the ground going into Novgorod… the planes you committed there will most likely die an untimely death.

    Hahaha :D

    Good move by the Russians!


  • @ghr2:

    in that scenario, the carriers/trannys are defenseless, so, since the trannys cant retreat, they will die, the carriers can retreat after any round of combat if they choose.

    Why can’t they retreat? They don’t actually unload until after the sea battle, so as long as they are not all killed in the battle, they can retreat (which they won’t be, since there is only 1 plane and at least 1 attacking unit)

    Remember in the rules, attacking trannys are not “defenseless”, they are “selected last.” If the defender does not have enough hits to kill all attacking transports (AFTER all eligible combat units are destroyed, mind you), any that survive can retreat.

    Check the blue box on p. 19 of the 1st edition europe rulebook


  • its because the transports are committed to the amph no matter what happens, they cant retreat


  • they are defenseless because its only a matter of time for them to die


  • nvm, they can retreat


  • I just tried it in TripleA and there at least they can retreat. It could be wrong of course, but lets just go to the rulebook.

    (Europe 1940 First Edition)

    p. 17, under step one of “Amphibious Assaults”

    “If there are defending surface warships and/or scrambled air units, sea combat occurs…all attacking and defending sea units must participate in the battle”

    Well I am too lazy to type it all out but then read at the top of page 19, don’t forget the blue box on the bottom of page 19 if that still doesn’t convince you.


  • whatever the case, it was a smart idea for russia to scramble because it would force germany to retreat or die, and it makes the novogord defense better off since the amph did not go through


  • they can retreat after 1 round of combat, so damage the carrier and retreat if the 1 fighter hits

  • '13

    So the RUS fighter gets one round defending against the toothless Allied ships, the Allies can retreat both the Carrier and the loaded Transports after the first round of combat, and the planes all have to attack Novgorod for at least a single round (they have committed to the fight but their amphib was just called off) before they too can retreat.

    Correct?

  • '13

    Sorry - toothless Axis ships :P


  • sounds legit


  • @Vold:

    So the RUS fighter gets one round defending against the toothless Allied ships, the Allies can retreat both the Carrier and the loaded Transports after the first round of combat, and the planes all have to attack Novgorod for at least a single round (they have committed to the fight but their amphib was just called off) before they too can retreat.

    Correct?

    The carrier and transport should retreat (they’re not required to, but they will eventually die if they don’t).  The planes are required to roll for one round of combat before they too can retreat.


  • The Carrier is not even there.

    Carriers do not accompany their planes in an attack, they move later ( not necc. to the sea zone of attack) and planes land on them during the non-combat phase.

    In this scenario the scrambled fighter destroys all the transports killing everything on them.
    Only the planes are left for the land battle.
    They then die if they can’t land during NCM but the carrier will prob. be there for them by then.


  • the carrier can be moved and take part in combat like any other sea unit.  it can absorb hits all the same, just the main reason why you would not is if you want to keep them safe for the round.

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