Factories on Islands?

[Gargantua]

I think the beauty of it is that you can change history not be ruled by it.

YES!

[Mallery29]

How much does it change though with UK having the IC in India?  Africa will hold for sure, so now India just has to defend itself. (I can only assume that’s where the second IC is since half the card is covered).  UK may have less units out there, but it has at least a head start on builds and China as a meat shield (along with whatever survives as a fleet).

[GoSanchez6]

IMHO if UK pours a bunch of money in India that is less money they can throw at Germany. My buddies try that a lot and if I am Germany I welcome it. That means I can steamroll Russia.

[Mallery29]

have you seen the map…they most likely HAVE the complex in India from the start…so they better pour money into it…and what you going to do, build a fleet right away for Germany to sink it?  The UK fleet is exposed on all sides now…I would love to see it work out, but based off the map and the lack of units in the SZ around it, you won’t see a fleet there till UK3 when America can show up on US3…and since it looks like India and Burma aren’t heavily defended from the get go (based off of not seeing a lot of words on their approximate lines {although it could say 10inf, and I wouldn’t know), a free complex for Japan is ALWAYS a terrible idea.

[Variable]

I can tell you from playing the game, don’t count on having a UK fleet around London by UK1. Luftwaffe has 6 fighters and a bomber…

[Mallery29]

@Variable:

I can tell you from playing the game, don’t count on having a UK fleet around London by UK1. Luftwaffe has 6 fighters and a bomber…

And by the rulebook for what was showing, that’s at least 2FTR, 1 BMR able to hit that poor old BB…and that’s not even factoring the SS…they have a term for this…surrounded. (or frak’d or F$&^'d).

[oztea]

There is a difference between changing history, and an unrealistic scenario like Japan turning the wilderness of Java into an industrial powerhouse with equivalent production to the entirety of Caucasus in the span of 4 months (one turn game time).

Thats the problem with 42 setups. Japan starts loaded with cash, and nothing to do….except plop down a factory somewhere and pump units towards Moscow.
Japan should have to fight for their empire. That was the fear they put into the west in 1941…that they were gobbling up their colonies.

Not that Japan was going to springboard into Egypt from the coffee bean headquarters of the world.

[cebrickey]

@oztea:

There is a difference between changing history, and an unrealistic scenario like Japan turning the wilderness of Java into an industrial powerhouse with equivalent production to the entirety of Caucasus in the span of 4 months (one turn game time).

Thats the problem with 42 setups. Japan starts loaded with cash, and nothing to do….except plop down a factory somewhere and pump units towards Moscow.
Japan should have to fight for their empire. That was the fear they put into the west in 1941…that they were gobbling up their colonies.

Not that Japan was going to springboard into Egypt from the coffee bean headquarters of the world.

I agree.  Oztea succinctly makes the case.

[Yavid]

@oztea:

There is a difference between changing history, and an unrealistic scenario like Japan turning the wilderness of Java into an industrial powerhouse with equivalent production to the entirety of Caucasus in the span of 4 months (one turn game time).

Thats the problem with 42 setups. Japan starts loaded with cash, and nothing to do….except plop down a factory somewhere and pump units towards Moscow.
Japan should have to fight for their empire. That was the fear they put into the west in 1941…that they were gobbling up their colonies.

Not that Japan was going to springboard into Egypt from the coffee bean headquarters of the world.

I whole heartly agree.

[Witt]

I think getting the factory building right is the most important part of A&A, seeing as how Economics is a major factor in play. I thought that is why Global Major IC building was amended in Alpha to prevent Majors cropping up everywhere. We do not want silly gaming. Everyone complains the Axis always win and then you see why. A Japanese factory inbetween Australia and India could be a killer move. (Of course we all did it in nniversary.)

[Koningstiger]

Although I agree with a previous poster that building an IC in the East Indies is being a bit over the top historically speaking, in gamewise the solution isn’t that difficult: send American bombers to Australia and bomb it (I.e. the East Indies factory) every turn!

I actually think the game should start with a number of factories an building more shouldn’t be allowed. Sure territories such as the EI were worth a lot econimically, but all those raw materials had to be shipped back to Japan to be processed.

I a recent game of AA50 I played, in which I also built a Japanese factory in the EI, Japan itself was surrounded by an American fleet, but the Japanese constructed another at the East Indies. That shouldn’t really be possible. Anyway, the game was long lost by then for the Axis…

[oztea]

The big problem is that Japan gets to jump the gun kind of.
J1 it builds some transports and a DEI factory.
J2 it moves them south and builds some stuff at the DEI factory
J3 it all slams into India like a wave of meat and metal.

Now the DEI factory replenishes two transports each turn that rotate with two other transports to persia, or Egypt, or wherever. A funnel of units into the middle east.

And send US bombers to attack the DEI factory?
Come now….we all know bombers are a borderline waste of money when used to SBR.
Especially a factory so small, and distant.

[Witt]

I know this is not Global, but I thought an Air Base or Naval one could have been the criterion for building say,  Bombers or Capital ships. Perhaps Islands should be restricted to building only half the number of units per IPC value, or even just one a turn in 1942.
It is funny, but I think most of us have got used to not building ICs on islands now.

[Noll]

I wish in Global you COULD build ICs in islands (minor ICs). It would make the game REALLY different.

[GoSanchez6]

@oztea:

There is a difference between changing history, and an unrealistic scenario like Japan turning the wilderness of Java into an industrial powerhouse with equivalent production to the entirety of Caucasus in the span of 4 months (one turn game time).
I don’t disagree with this comment but the country is worth 4 IPCs. In my view you have a problem with how much the country is worth.
Thats the problem with 42 setups. Japan starts loaded with cash, and nothing to do….except plop down a factory somewhere and pump units towards Moscow.
Japan should have to fight for their empire. That was the fear they put into the west in 1941…that they were gobbling up their colonies.
Part of the decision the Allies need to make. Let Japan put a lot of resources in the South Pacific. USA can build up a strong force and take out the sea of Japan and threaten Japans homeland and it Asian Empire.
Not that Japan was going to springboard into Egypt from the coffee bean headquarters of the world.

You never know Oztea maybe that was their goal all along. Greater Cup prosperity

[oztea]

Sure, that may have been their goal.

But it turns Java into a mini-Japan….way closer to the front in Stalingrad

[Koningstiger]

@oztea:

The big problem is that Japan gets to jump the gun kind of.
J1 it builds some transports and a DEI factory.
J2 it moves them south and builds some stuff at the DEI factory
J3 it all slams into India like a wave of meat and metal.

Now the DEI factory replenishes two transports each turn that rotate with two other transports to persia, or Egypt, or wherever. A funnel of units into the middle east.

And send US bombers to attack the DEI factory?
Come now….we all know bombers are a borderline waste of money when used to SBR.
Especially a factory so small, and distant.

Sorry, but I don’t think bombers are a waste of IPCs even for SBRs. The US can spare the cash and stand an occasional loss of a bomber. At the very least it slows Japan down.

[oztea]

You have to get it to western Australia first……before Japan takes it with units built at Java.

[oztea]

Or I guess you could fly to India on and be bombing it on US 3 with just the bomber you start with.

Oh wait. J3 comes before US 3……and on J2 Japan built a transport, INF and TNK at Java.
And 3 Transports with 3 Inf, 2 Art, and 1 TNK are floating in range of India for the attack on J3

So J3 Japan takes India.
On J4 2 tranports float back to the Java sea zone and you build 2 INF, 2 TNK
On J5 those units land at Egypt, and your other 2 transports wait next to java for the reaload.

Now 2 INF, 2 TNK are pumping into africa each turn.

(Just giving you the rundown of EVERY single game of revised I ever played)

[oztea]

And the only reason it works is because Japan only has to make a deep investment on J1 (factory + transport)
From that point on all it has to do is save about 18 IPCs for the Java factory, and use the rest of its cash to play defensive in the north pacific.
(Naval arms race with USA, that it has a head start in)

By the time the US gets the upper hand, Japan has Egypt, India, and Caucasus.