• Manchuria is 3 IPCs, not 4.
    And isn’t in a position to transport Infantry AND Tanks to combat zones 2 spaces away. (on any of 3 continents)

    Tanks in Siberia are on a set path…you know where they are going and they will outrun their infantry.

    2 INF, 2 TNK every turn at East Indies is going to get loaded on to 2 transports and sent to Egypt. And the 2 transports off the coast of Egypt will return to the East Indies sea zone and wait to pick up next turns buy. (or India instead of Egypt, or Persia and on to Stalingrad)

    The japanese territories on the coast have all been reduced to 2 (except manchuria) so that each factory you buy for them only nets you 2 production spaces (not three)
    Thus making Manchuria the best spot for a factory (because you get the most spaces to place at)

    Except East Indies is BETTER.

    It can’t be attacked by land
    It can build 4 units (fitting neatly into 2 transports)
    It is within range of Africa, Asia, and Australia
    You can industrialize it on your first turn

    Thats the real problem…that Japan STARTS with these money islands, and can turn them into an production hub equal in output to the Caucasus over the span of one turn.

  • '20 '18 '16 '13 '12

    So will this make the axis too powerful? Is the game broken before it even comes out?

    Or will Japan be too weak without this ability? I suggest we wait and actually play the game before deciding that it’s broken. Besides Anti-aircraft artillery will probably fix all of this, right?

    If it becomes a big deal in gameplay just houserule factories on islands out. That’s what I always do.

  • Customizer

    I think you are putting too much value on Japan being able to put an IC in the East Indies. Yeah, 4 units each turn is pretty good, but you have to keep transports around to get them off that island and you have to keep some warships around to protect those transports. That can be easier said than done if USA decides to get aggressive with their navy in the Pacific.
    Also, if most of your fleet is around the East Indies, what do you have protecting the Home Islands?
    Overall, I think a factory in Manchuria will do Japan more good. Plus, you can put another one in India after you capture it.


  • What if Japan puts an IC in East Indies it is either a great move or they are building it for the USA. If the US wants it they can go get it. I like the idea of letting you put complexes on islands it adds to the game. I think too many times people get bogged down into thinking this game should play the way the war actually went. I think the beauty of it is that you can change history not be ruled by it.

  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    I think the beauty of it is that you can change history not be ruled by it.

    YES!


  • How much does it change though with UK having the IC in India?  Africa will hold for sure, so now India just has to defend itself. (I can only assume that’s where the second IC is since half the card is covered).  UK may have less units out there, but it has at least a head start on builds and China as a meat shield (along with whatever survives as a fleet).


  • IMHO if UK pours a bunch of money in India that is less money they can throw at Germany. My buddies try that a lot and if I am Germany I welcome it. That means I can steamroll Russia.


  • have you seen the map…they most likely HAVE the complex in India from the start…so they better pour money into it…and what you going to do, build a fleet right away for Germany to sink it?  The UK fleet is exposed on all sides now…I would love to see it work out, but based off the map and the lack of units in the SZ around it, you won’t see a fleet there till UK3 when America can show up on US3…and since it looks like India and Burma aren’t heavily defended from the get go (based off of not seeing a lot of words on their approximate lines {although it could say 10inf, and I wouldn’t know), a free complex for Japan is ALWAYS a terrible idea.

  • Sponsor '17 TripleA '11 '10

    I can tell you from playing the game, don’t count on having a UK fleet around London by UK1. Luftwaffe has 6 fighters and a bomber…


  • @Variable:

    I can tell you from playing the game, don’t count on having a UK fleet around London by UK1. Luftwaffe has 6 fighters and a bomber…

    And by the rulebook for what was showing, that’s at least 2FTR, 1 BMR able to hit that poor old BB…and that’s not even factoring the SS…they have a term for this…surrounded. (or frak’d or F$&^'d).


  • There is a difference between changing history, and an unrealistic scenario like Japan turning the wilderness of Java into an industrial powerhouse with equivalent production to the entirety of Caucasus in the span of 4 months (one turn game time).

    Thats the problem with 42 setups. Japan starts loaded with cash, and nothing to do….except plop down a factory somewhere and pump units towards Moscow.
    Japan should have to fight for their empire. That was the fear they put into the west in 1941…that they were gobbling up their colonies.

    Not that Japan was going to springboard into Egypt from the coffee bean headquarters of the world.


  • @oztea:

    There is a difference between changing history, and an unrealistic scenario like Japan turning the wilderness of Java into an industrial powerhouse with equivalent production to the entirety of Caucasus in the span of 4 months (one turn game time).

    Thats the problem with 42 setups. Japan starts loaded with cash, and nothing to do….except plop down a factory somewhere and pump units towards Moscow.
    Japan should have to fight for their empire. That was the fear they put into the west in 1941…that they were gobbling up their colonies.

    Not that Japan was going to springboard into Egypt from the coffee bean headquarters of the world.

    I agree.  Oztea succinctly makes the case.


  • @oztea:

    There is a difference between changing history, and an unrealistic scenario like Japan turning the wilderness of Java into an industrial powerhouse with equivalent production to the entirety of Caucasus in the span of 4 months (one turn game time).

    Thats the problem with 42 setups. Japan starts loaded with cash, and nothing to do….except plop down a factory somewhere and pump units towards Moscow.
    Japan should have to fight for their empire. That was the fear they put into the west in 1941…that they were gobbling up their colonies.

    Not that Japan was going to springboard into Egypt from the coffee bean headquarters of the world.

    I whole heartly agree.


  • I think getting the factory building right is the most important part of A&A, seeing as how Economics is a major factor in play. I thought that is why Global Major IC building was amended in Alpha to prevent Majors cropping up everywhere. We do not want silly gaming. Everyone complains the Axis always win and then you see why. A Japanese factory inbetween Australia and India could be a killer move. (Of course we all did it in nniversary.)


  • Although I agree with a previous poster that building an IC in the East Indies is being a bit over the top historically speaking, in gamewise the solution isn’t that difficult: send American bombers to Australia and bomb it (I.e. the East Indies factory) every turn!

    I actually think the game should start with a number of factories an building more shouldn’t be allowed. Sure territories such as the EI were worth a lot econimically, but all those raw materials had to be shipped back to Japan to be processed.

    I a recent game of AA50 I played, in which I also built a Japanese factory in the EI, Japan itself was surrounded by an American fleet, but the Japanese constructed another at the East Indies. That shouldn’t really be possible. Anyway, the game was long lost by then for the Axis…


  • The big problem is that Japan gets to jump the gun kind of.
    J1 it builds some transports and a DEI factory.
    J2 it moves them south and builds some stuff at the DEI factory
    J3 it all slams into India like a wave of meat and metal.

    Now the DEI factory replenishes two transports each turn that rotate with two other transports to persia, or Egypt, or wherever. A funnel of units into the middle east.

    And send US bombers to attack the DEI factory?
    Come now….we all know bombers are a borderline waste of money when used to SBR.
    Especially a factory so small, and distant.


  • I know this is not Global, but I thought an Air Base or Naval one could have been the criterion for building say,  Bombers or Capital ships. Perhaps Islands should be restricted to building only half the number of units per IPC value, or even just one a turn in 1942.
    It is funny, but I think most of us have got used to not building ICs on islands now.


  • I wish in Global you COULD build ICs in islands (minor ICs). It would make the game REALLY different.


  • @oztea:

    There is a difference between changing history, and an unrealistic scenario like Japan turning the wilderness of Java into an industrial powerhouse with equivalent production to the entirety of Caucasus in the span of 4 months (one turn game time).
    I don’t disagree with this comment but the country is worth 4 IPCs. In my view you have a problem with how much the country is worth.
    Thats the problem with 42 setups. Japan starts loaded with cash, and nothing to do….except plop down a factory somewhere and pump units towards Moscow.
    Japan should have to fight for their empire. That was the fear they put into the west in 1941…that they were gobbling up their colonies.
    Part of the decision the Allies need to make. Let Japan put a lot of resources in the South Pacific. USA can build up a strong force and take out the sea of Japan and threaten Japans homeland and it Asian Empire.
    Not that Japan was going to springboard into Egypt from the coffee bean headquarters of the world.

    You never know Oztea maybe that was their goal all along. Greater Cup prosperity


  • Sure, that may have been their goal.

    But it turns Java into a mini-Japan….way closer to the front in Stalingrad

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